What kind of college applicant is this?

[Anonymous]

OP, your DC will do fine at many schools. Look for fit ( size, location, major). B and C students rule the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people are being overly harsh as the academic performance is very good. Not Ivy good, but very good. Need to pull up the SAT. Get it to 1450 even and a lot of very good schools are in play. Again, not Ivy, but better than the names being thrown around here.

What state are you in?

This is a public school student with an unweighted B plus average in the ange of grade inflation and SAT below 1400. It really isn’t helpful to be unrealistic.

3.5 is a B+/A- where I come from. All AP classes. It isn't stellar but not horrible. Agree that the SAT needs to be well into the 1400 range to get more traction but if they can do that, they are a decent candidate. Public vs. Private doesn't matter depending on the public - they were kind of vague in how they characterized the school. More specificity on that front would be helpful.

I don’t know where you come from, but it’s standard in the real world that a 3.7 is a A minus and a 3.5 is a B plus on a 4.0 said it wasn’t a top tier public.

At the schools I know a 3.7 is A- and 3.3 is B+ so a 3.5 is half A-, half B+. Different people define "not top tier public" differently. If it truly is kind of mediocre, then I am more apt to agree. If they are saying "no, this isn't Scarsdale, Millburn, Bronxville but it is just below those" then it is more impressive. Nuance is key.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Please help me understand how my son will be viewed as a college applicant and what kinds of schools he should realistically be aiming for. I see terms like "Target" and "Reach" and I wonder what bands of schools would match that for him. He's not going for very elite schools, but what about schools in the top 30-50 range? Top 100? And which bands of schools might be below his level academically? He's intrigued by a particular school that ranks in the low 200s nationally and another that ranks in the 20s regionally. Am I right in feeling these are below him, or do I need to get real about who he is as a student? I went to a very selective school, so my metrics might be off when it comes to a less competitive student. When I go to US News and World Report or a similar site, what rankings of school should I be looking at? What level of selectivity? His profile:

We're in the NYC suburbs, decent but not top-ranked public school, "most demanding" transcript designation with all AP courses junior year, GPA is 3.5 unweighted, SAT should crack 1400 but I don't expect much over that. He's been consistently involved in some school activities since freshman year like playing in a music ensemble, joining in the school musical every year, and a couple of clubs, but he's not president or leader of anything. He's also involved in his school's science research program (most schools around here seem to have a program like this) and is doing well, but I don't expect him to win any awards. And he does some volunteer work, 1-2 hours a week.

Your DS sounds great. We need more info.

What is your son's likely or intended major? Is he humanities (Eng/Hist/Phil), sciences, social sciences (Anthropology, Poli Sci, Psychology, Econ), Engineering, Fine Arts, etc.?

What kind of environment is your DS seeking? Big state school, small boarding-school type atmosphere (small LAC), mid-sized private? In city or suburb or rural? Artsy, nerdy, sporty, not sure?

Does he want to stay in Northeast? Mid-west? Northwest? Southwest? Southeast? US or Canada?

He is interested in geology, chemistry, biology, and environmental science. Not quite decided yet on which one, might want to explore a bit initially. As for size, he doesn't really know yet but he doesn't want huge. Not an athlete, more into the arts, but not interested in an arts major.

I agree with the others to not focus on rankings. Focus on a school that will do a great job of supporting what he wants to do. A strong program at a good regional school in the region where he wants to be is likely better than going a few notches up in ranking when it means being in a different area. Outside of really top schools, hiring and reputation is pretty regional. Budget is also a consideration.

I'd work on visits to get a better sense of the environment he wants. For those interests, maybe U of Vermont, or Colorado-Boulder, if he wants a bigger schools. Small regional schools with good environmental programs - SUNY ESF (nice option if he likes an urban setting + shared facilities with Syracuse gives access to a biggest school community), Paul Smiths, Juniata.

FWIW, my DD sounds similar (environmental/bio + arts) with uwGPA and SAT slightly higher. Didn't get into any reach schools and some higher-ranked admits were out of budget. She really wanted a small school and admits we could afford were generally in the USNews LAC rankings in the 50-80 range. Ended up at one of those and it's been a good fit.

Are you comfortable with sharing which school? Or which schools she got into that offered good merit aid? I'm the OP and I'd love to know, because affordability matters to us too. Not going to get any financial aid but would love to have good merit offers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Are you comfortable with sharing which school? Or which schools she got into that offered good merit aid? I'm the OP and I'd love to know, because affordability matters to us too. Not going to get any financial aid but would love to have good merit offers.

She's at Juniata. Other schools considered that fit the budget - Allegheny, St Mary's College of Maryland (OOS), Washington College, U of Mary Washington (in state). We also visited SUNY ESF but she hated the city location. Likes being in the middle of nowhere LOL. All of those came in around $30-$35k (less at UMW in-state). Juniata added a music scholarship that lowered the cost further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people are being overly harsh as the academic performance is very good. Not Ivy good, but very good. Need to pull up the SAT. Get it to 1450 even and a lot of very good schools are in play. Again, not Ivy, but better than the names being thrown around here.

What state are you in?

This is a public school student with an unweighted B plus average in the ange of grade inflation and SAT below 1400. It really isn’t helpful to be unrealistic.

3.5 is a B+/A- where I come from. All AP classes. It isn't stellar but not horrible. Agree that the SAT needs to be well into the 1400 range to get more traction but if they can do that, they are a decent candidate. Public vs. Private doesn't matter depending on the public - they were kind of vague in how they characterized the school. More specificity on that front would be helpful.

I don’t know where you come from, but it’s standard in the real world that a 3.7 is a A minus and a 3.5 is a B plus on a 4.0 said it wasn’t a top tier public.

At the schools I know a 3.7 is A- and 3.3 is B+ so a 3.5 is half A-, half B+. Different people define "not top tier public" differently. If it truly is kind of mediocre, then I am more apt to agree. If they are saying "no, this isn't Scarsdale, Millburn, Bronxville but it is just below those" then it is more impressive. Nuance is key.

I agree. I have never heard of B+ being 3.5. It is 3.3 or 3.33 depending on how specific they want to be. Not sure where the other poster lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With respect to environmental studies, this site offers suggestions such as Bates, Dickinson and Hobart:

2025 Best Colleges for Environmental Science - College Transitions https://share.google/3vB4AgtiVmZgX18Cl

Here is the corresponding site for geosciences:

https://share.google/sZ7UId4txwSwko8El

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people are being overly harsh as the academic performance is very good. Not Ivy good, but very good. Need to pull up the SAT. Get it to 1450 even and a lot of very good schools are in play. Again, not Ivy, but better than the names being thrown around here.

What state are you in?

This is a public school student with an unweighted B plus average in the ange of grade inflation and SAT below 1400. It really isn’t helpful to be unrealistic.

3.5 is a B+/A- where I come from. All AP classes. It isn't stellar but not horrible. Agree that the SAT needs to be well into the 1400 range to get more traction but if they can do that, they are a decent candidate. Public vs. Private doesn't matter depending on the public - they were kind of vague in how they characterized the school. More specificity on that front would be helpful.

I don’t know where you come from, but it’s standard in the real world that a 3.7 is a A minus and a 3.5 is a B plus on a 4.0 said it wasn’t a top tier public.

At the schools I know a 3.7 is A- and 3.3 is B+ so a 3.5 is half A-, half B+. Different people define "not top tier public" differently. If it truly is kind of mediocre, then I am more apt to agree. If they are saying "no, this isn't Scarsdale, Millburn, Bronxville but it is just below those" then it is more impressive. Nuance is key.

I agree. I have never heard of B+ being 3.5. It is 3.3 or 3.33 depending on how specific they want to be. Not sure where the other poster lives.

A 3.5 GPA, or Grade Point Average, is equivalent to a B+ letter grade on a 4.0 GPA scale, and a percentage grade of 87–89.https://gpacalculator.io/gpa-scale/3.5/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people are being overly harsh as the academic performance is very good. Not Ivy good, but very good. Need to pull up the SAT. Get it to 1450 even and a lot of very good schools are in play. Again, not Ivy, but better than the names being thrown around here.

What state are you in?

This is a public school student with an unweighted B plus average in the ange of grade inflation and SAT below 1400. It really isn’t helpful to be unrealistic.

3.5 is a B+/A- where I come from. All AP classes. It isn't stellar but not horrible. Agree that the SAT needs to be well into the 1400 range to get more traction but if they can do that, they are a decent candidate. Public vs. Private doesn't matter depending on the public - they were kind of vague in how they characterized the school. More specificity on that front would be helpful.

I don’t know where you come from, but it’s standard in the real world that a 3.7 is a A minus and a 3.5 is a B plus on a 4.0 said it wasn’t a top tier public.

At the schools I know a 3.7 is A- and 3.3 is B+ so a 3.5 is half A-, half B+. Different people define "not top tier public" differently. If it truly is kind of mediocre, then I am more apt to agree. If they are saying "no, this isn't Scarsdale, Millburn, Bronxville but it is just below those" then it is more impressive. Nuance is key.

I agree. I have never heard of B+ being 3.5. It is 3.3 or 3.33 depending on how specific they want to be. Not sure where the other poster lives.

A 3.5 GPA, or Grade Point Average, is equivalent to a B+ letter grade on a 4.0 GPA scale, and a percentage grade of 87–89.https://gpacalculator.io/gpa-scale/3.5/

Harvard, Yale, Stanford and Princeton (among others) feel differently - I could go on but I think I've proven my point - still curious what school you are referring to:

https://infoforfaculty.fas.harvard.edu/book/grade-point-averages

https://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/yale-college/honors/

https://studentservices.stanford.edu/my-academics/evaluations-exams-grades/grades/how-do-i-calculate-my-grade-point-average-gpa

https://registrar.princeton.edu/student-and-alumni-services/transcript-and-verification-services/calculate-your-gpa

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40-75 range (30-40 would be reaches for him)

This kid is not getting into schools like Tufts, Wake Forest, Miami, even Clemson would be a reach. I’d look outside the T75.

A 3.5 uw is half As and half Bs. He’s also taking the most rigorous classes. Together with a 1400+ SAT score, his academic profile is decent. Definitely cast widely in the 40-75 range. Stay away from bio (or chem) if possible, as it’s a competitive and popular major due to premed. Take the essays seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40-75 range (30-40 would be reaches for him)

This kid is not getting into schools like Tufts, Wake Forest, Miami, even Clemson would be a reach. I’d look outside the T75.

A 3.5 uw is half As and half Bs. He’s also taking the most rigorous classes. Together with a 1400+ SAT score, his academic profile is decent. Definitely cast widely in the 40-75 range. Stay away from bio (or chem) if possible, as it’s a competitive and popular major due to premed. Take the essays seriously.

Agreed. Declare environmental science as intended major. If you don't want a larger school, consider Denver University, American University, Lewis & Clark, Bard, Dickinson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40-75 range (30-40 would be reaches for him)

This kid is not getting into schools like Tufts, Wake Forest, Miami, even Clemson would be a reach. I’d look outside the T75.

A 3.5 uw is half As and half Bs. He’s also taking the most rigorous classes. Together with a 1400+ SAT score, his academic profile is decent. Definitely cast widely in the 40-75 range. Stay away from bio (or chem) if possible, as it’s a competitive and popular major due to premed. Take the essays seriously.

It would be helpful to know what his relative class rank is. I'm guessing outside the top 30 percent given the level of grade inflation at most public schools these days. 40-75 is going to be a reach coming from a just average high school. Why not just do SUNY?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people are being overly harsh as the academic performance is very good. Not Ivy good, but very good. Need to pull up the SAT. Get it to 1450 even and a lot of very good schools are in play. Again, not Ivy, but better than the names being thrown around here.

What state are you in?

This is a public school student with an unweighted B plus average in the ange of grade inflation and SAT below 1400. It really isn’t helpful to be unrealistic.

3.5 is a B+/A- where I come from. All AP classes. It isn't stellar but not horrible. Agree that the SAT needs to be well into the 1400 range to get more traction but if they can do that, they are a decent candidate. Public vs. Private doesn't matter depending on the public - they were kind of vague in how they characterized the school. More specificity on that front would be helpful.

I don’t know where you come from, but it’s standard in the real world that a 3.7 is a A minus and a 3.5 is a B plus on a 4.0 said it wasn’t a top tier public.

At the schools I know a 3.7 is A- and 3.3 is B+ so a 3.5 is half A-, half B+. Different people define "not top tier public" differently. If it truly is kind of mediocre, then I am more apt to agree. If they are saying "no, this isn't Scarsdale, Millburn, Bronxville but it is just below those" then it is more impressive. Nuance is key.

I agree. I have never heard of B+ being 3.5. It is 3.3 or 3.33 depending on how specific they want to be. Not sure where the other poster lives.

Do you not agree that a 3.7 is an A-?

[Anonymous]

Hey...I just thought of a long shot.

Michigan Tech gives good merit and they have environmental science and forestry. As well as a full range of science and engineering majors.

https://www.mtu.edu/admissions/academics/majors/environmental-science-sustainability/

They also have technical summer camps for high schoolers.

https://www.mtu.edu/syp/

There's one called Nature x Numbers.

I sent my kid to camp last year. Was favorably impressed with the campus and facilities. It is far from almost everywhere. But well-regarded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people are being overly harsh as the academic performance is very good. Not Ivy good, but very good. Need to pull up the SAT. Get it to 1450 even and a lot of very good schools are in play. Again, not Ivy, but better than the names being thrown around here.

What state are you in?

This is a public school student with an unweighted B plus average in the ange of grade inflation and SAT below 1400. It really isn’t helpful to be unrealistic.

3.5 is a B+/A- where I come from. All AP classes. It isn't stellar but not horrible. Agree that the SAT needs to be well into the 1400 range to get more traction but if they can do that, they are a decent candidate. Public vs. Private doesn't matter depending on the public - they were kind of vague in how they characterized the school. More specificity on that front would be helpful.

I don’t know where you come from, but it’s standard in the real world that a 3.7 is a A minus and a 3.5 is a B plus on a 4.0 said it wasn’t a top tier public.

At the schools I know a 3.7 is A- and 3.3 is B+ so a 3.5 is half A-, half B+. Different people define "not top tier public" differently. If it truly is kind of mediocre, then I am more apt to agree. If they are saying "no, this isn't Scarsdale, Millburn, Bronxville but it is just below those" then it is more impressive. Nuance is key.

I agree. I have never heard of B+ being 3.5. It is 3.3 or 3.33 depending on how specific they want to be. Not sure where the other poster lives.

Do you not agree that a 3.7 is an A-?

Yes. A- is 3.7 or 3.66 or 3.67. Any of those is fine.

[Anonymous]

If he wants to stay in state, there are lots of similar kids at Hobart, Alfred, Bard, and SUNY ESF.