California's Wealth Tax

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It is idiotic. Among other profound issues, it will destroy the startup ecosystem that is making and has made the US into a global technology powerhouse because it doesn’t differentiate between realized and unrealized gains. So, a young person who has no hard assets whatsoever but who founds a company that gets paper-valued at (say) 5 billion to justify a $500m cash investment will suddenly have a completely unpayable tax bill the day after closing a successful funding round. This would have killed every single transformative technology of the last 30 years in the cradle.

As far as I can tell, the people supporting this want just want to cede every single successful market segment the US has created to Chinese dominance. It is short-sighted and utterly stupid. I mean, it’s stupid to the point where the conspiracy theorist in me is wondering if the CCP is funneling money into social media to drive up support for it, so the US startup market will be killed off. I don’t really think that, but it has crossed my mind.

“Trickle down” didn’t work. Free trade deals didn’t work either. Why not tax the rich who are now making many times the amount of the average worker than they did 20-30 years ago.

So you start with billionaires, then when they're milked dry you turn to, millionaires, then to whom? A tyranny of the less well off financially seems a slippery slope, apart from the immorality of taking someone's money just because they have more of it than you do.

[Anonymous]

Stupid California millionaires need to downscale their lifestyle and give money to the population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switzerland has Cantonal-level wealth taxes that bite quite low (around 50K-200K taxable net worth after deductions). This translates to about 50% of the population paying wealth taxes each year.

https://thepoorswiss.com/wealth-tax/

No one is arguing that Switzerland is bad for business.

Switzerland also keeps out nearly all immigrants, and had a total population that is not much more than the population of Los Angeles. They also don’t have a startup culture and new groundshaking companies almost never come out of Switzerland.

Ludicrous comparison, made by someone with no understanding of economics.

40% of the Swiss population is foreign born (vs. 16% in the US). Switzerland is highly reliant on immigrant labor, both skilled and unskilled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there should be so many billionaires but this seems so ludicrous.

1. People can vote to say we are taking 5% of your all your wealth in 2025? Is there a limit, can voters get enough signatures to vote for taking 10% more in 2030 of every billionaire's wealth?

2. How do you even value all of someone's assets over a billion? They are all mandated to inform the government of every last penny they have? Many billionaires have assets like art which is hard to value or non-liquid assets.

These problems disappear of billionaires don't exist. "Too rich to tax" is an insane philosophy.

+1. These people owe their wealth to living in this country. They shouldn’t be able to hoard it for themselves. Or else they can just move to another country that will let them keep it all, I’m sure there are some lovely places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there should be so many billionaires but this seems so ludicrous.

1. People can vote to say we are taking 5% of your all your wealth in 2025? Is there a limit, can voters get enough signatures to vote for taking 10% more in 2030 of every billionaire's wealth?

2. How do you even value all of someone's assets over a billion? They are all mandated to inform the government of every last penny they have? Many billionaires have assets like art which is hard to value or non-liquid assets.

These problems disappear of billionaires don't exist. "Too rich to tax" is an insane philosophy.

+1. These people owe their wealth to living in this country. They shouldn’t be able to hoard it for themselves. Or else they can just move to another country that will let them keep it all, I’m sure there are some lovely places.

+2 Millionaires are gluttons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are DCUM's thoughts on California's proposed wealth tax.

To me it makes more sense than capital gains taxes. I feel that taxing earnings are problematic. It encourages companies to reinvest rather than pay dividends that might be taxed. Eventually creating the conditions that monopolies flourish in.

EG capital gains taxes it actually punishes people that make and report profits. Personally, I feel we should really encourage profits at least the theoretical ideal, where a company efficiently produces a product and sells it for more than they needed to produce it. Though, the standard profit that we have today, where each company feels it's entitled, to 10% profits is basically rent seeking, and that is exactly the problem I think capital tax solves. Either you are putting your money to use and creating profits and paying them out to shareholders, or you don't deserve to have that amount of influence. Full stop.

What are other thoughts on the idea? Furthermore, I think it's justified in the amount of political influence that these billionaires garner and how much of our government is optimized for them. Want government services, like USCIS Visa's, start paying.

First of all, a lot of California based public companies pay dividends already so your first point is debunked.

Who are you to dictate how much profit a company should make? Let the free market decide especially for wants vs needs. If you think a product or service is too expensive then don't buy the product or service. Let competition work. If enough people do this, eventually the company will lower prices. It's called the power of the purse. Essentials such as food have razor thin profit margins as is.

Wealth taxes have been tried in other countries and have failed. Not a fan.

[Anonymous]

Socialism works until you run out of other people's money. And then the socialists will come after yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The wealth tax is on individuals, not companies.

Individuals who avoid taxes by holding money in stocks, then take out loans to live on. Bill Ackerman describes the loop hole.

It's not a loophole. Stock equity loans are not income. It's debt and not taxed. And there is nothing stopping you from doing this as well. Anyone can buy stocks, let them appreciate over time (if you know what you're doing), and then take out an equity loan on that stock. You don't need millions. Call your broker and inquire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. It is idiotic. Among other profound issues, it will destroy the startup ecosystem that is making and has made the US into a global technology powerhouse because it doesn’t differentiate between realized and unrealized gains. So, a young person who has no hard assets whatsoever but who founds a company that gets paper-valued at (say) 5 billion to justify a $500m cash investment will suddenly have a completely unpayable tax bill the day after closing a successful funding round. This would have killed every single transformative technology of the last 30 years in the cradle.

As far as I can tell, the people supporting this want just want to cede every single successful market segment the US has created to Chinese dominance. It is short-sighted and utterly stupid. I mean, it’s stupid to the point where the conspiracy theorist in me is wondering if the CCP is funneling money into social media to drive up support for it, so the US startup market will be killed off. I don’t really think that, but it has crossed my mind.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remember Margaret Thatcher's line: "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money".

Taxes drive behavior, and that behavior will be to avoid the tax one way or another, not to happily pay for endlessly expanding social welfare programs. To the extent that wealthy people become tax exiles from CA, the state will experience a net loss of income rather than any gains at all.

I am interested in seeing California implement this tax as a social experiment. My hypothesis is that it’ll result in a net loss of tax revenue for them, as millionaires take their assets and leave the state. The other impacts are harder to determine—perhaps they’ll have a lot of semi-vacant property so that the owners avoid being taxed as California residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember Margaret Thatcher's line: "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money".

Taxes drive behavior, and that behavior will be to avoid the tax one way or another, not to happily pay for endlessly expanding social welfare programs. To the extent that wealthy people become tax exiles from CA, the state will experience a net loss of income rather than any gains at all.

I am interested in seeing California implement this tax as a social experiment. My hypothesis is that it’ll result in a net loss of tax revenue for them, as millionaires take their assets and leave the state. The other impacts are harder to determine—perhaps they’ll have a lot of semi-vacant property so that the owners avoid being taxed as California residents.

Millionaires will not be taxed by this proposal. Why would they move?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The wealth tax is on individuals, not companies.

Individuals who avoid taxes by holding money in stocks, then take out loans to live on. Bill Ackerman describes the loop hole.

It's not a loophole. Stock equity loans are not income. It's debt and not taxed. And there is nothing stopping you from doing this as well. Anyone can buy stocks, let them appreciate over time (if you know what you're doing), and then take out an equity loan on that stock. You don't need millions. Call your broker and inquire.

I'd give all of my stocks just to see some billionaires busted down and have their money taken. It'd totally be worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remember Margaret Thatcher's line: "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money".

Taxes drive behavior, and that behavior will be to avoid the tax one way or another, not to happily pay for endlessly expanding social welfare programs. To the extent that wealthy people become tax exiles from CA, the state will experience a net loss of income rather than any gains at all.

No one is leaving California. Such empty threats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember Margaret Thatcher's line: "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money".

Taxes drive behavior, and that behavior will be to avoid the tax one way or another, not to happily pay for endlessly expanding social welfare programs. To the extent that wealthy people become tax exiles from CA, the state will experience a net loss of income rather than any gains at all.

No one is leaving California. Such empty threats.

+1. If anything, people are moving back to California: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-12-19/california-sees-population-growth-for-third-consecutive-year-after-pandemic-era-exodus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The wealth tax is on individuals, not companies.

Individuals who avoid taxes by holding money in stocks, then take out loans to live on. Bill Ackerman describes the loop hole.

It's not a loophole. Stock equity loans are not income. It's debt and not taxed. And there is nothing stopping you from doing this as well. Anyone can buy stocks, let them appreciate over time (if you know what you're doing), and then take out an equity loan on that stock. You don't need millions. Call your broker and inquire.

Ackerman has also endorsed the notion that loan proceeds in excess of basis of stock serving as collateral should be taxed as income.