California's Wealth Tax

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there should be so many billionaires but this seems so ludicrous.

1. People can vote to say we are taking 5% of your all your wealth in 2025? Is there a limit, can voters get enough signatures to vote for taking 10% more in 2030 of every billionaire's wealth?

2. How do you even value all of someone's assets over a billion? They are all mandated to inform the government of every last penny they have? Many billionaires have assets like art which is hard to value or non-liquid assets.

These problems disappear of billionaires don't exist. "Too rich to tax" is an insane philosophy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. It is idiotic. Among other profound issues, it will destroy the startup ecosystem that is making and has made the US into a global technology powerhouse because it doesn’t differentiate between realized and unrealized gains. So, a young person who has no hard assets whatsoever but who founds a company that gets paper-valued at (say) 5 billion to justify a $500m cash investment will suddenly have a completely unpayable tax bill the day after closing a successful funding round. This would have killed every single transformative technology of the last 30 years in the cradle.

As far as I can tell, the people supporting this want just want to cede every single successful market segment the US has created to Chinese dominance. It is short-sighted and utterly stupid. I mean, it’s stupid to the point where the conspiracy theorist in me is wondering if the CCP is funneling money into social media to drive up support for it, so the US startup market will be killed off. I don’t really think that, but it has crossed my mind.

People hold stocks then take out loans to live on. Why can't they do the same to pay their taxes?

[Anonymous]

It will stymie business startup in an already extremely high tax state.

[Anonymous]

I don't get why it's a big deal. It's a onetime tax and it's likely not even half of their portfolio appreciation for one year. Assuming the supposed 10% increase year on year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why it's a big deal. It's a onetime tax and it's likely not even half of their portfolio appreciation for one year. Assuming the supposed 10% increase year on year.

One time taxes tend to be repeated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why it's a big deal. It's a onetime tax and it's likely not even half of their portfolio appreciation for one year. Assuming the supposed 10% increase year on year.

One time taxes tend to be repeated.

That's reasonable, I suppose but it's still like not much for that tax bracket. Even if it were yearly. It is taking a fraction of capital, but it's still going to be a reasonable amount given their tax bracket, since their portfolio is generating an income.

[Anonymous]

Americans simping for billionaires. Awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It is idiotic. Among other profound issues, it will destroy the startup ecosystem that is making and has made the US into a global technology powerhouse because it doesn’t differentiate between realized and unrealized gains. So, a young person who has no hard assets whatsoever but who founds a company that gets paper-valued at (say) 5 billion to justify a $500m cash investment will suddenly have a completely unpayable tax bill the day after closing a successful funding round. This would have killed every single transformative technology of the last 30 years in the cradle.

As far as I can tell, the people supporting this want just want to cede every single successful market segment the US has created to Chinese dominance. It is short-sighted and utterly stupid. I mean, it’s stupid to the point where the conspiracy theorist in me is wondering if the CCP is funneling money into social media to drive up support for it, so the US startup market will be killed off. I don’t really think that, but it has crossed my mind.

People hold stocks then take out loans to live on. Why can't they do the same to pay their taxes?

Oh my God. The ignorance is killing me. First of all, no, this is not what happens with startup equity. There are shady companies that will try to issue loans to rank-and-file employees (not founders) based on illiquid equity, though many companies now have restrictions on that practice and won’t allow illiquid equity to be used as collateral. And that is enforced with transfer restrictions: it can’t be used as collateral because of transfer blockages put into place by the transfer agents.

But founders couldn’t do that even if they wanted and the company allowed it (which would be non-standard in the first place now, under most company stock plans). They are bound by a different set of company rules to preserve the value of the startup. Pre-IPO or other exit, they are pretty limited in what they can do. And they most certainly cannot take out a loan big enough to pay this ridiculous and rapacious tax bill, using their nascent startup equity as collateral.

This is a tax designed to destroy the innovation engine of the US and cede control to China, plain and simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. It is idiotic. Among other profound issues, it will destroy the startup ecosystem that is making and has made the US into a global technology powerhouse because it doesn’t differentiate between realized and unrealized gains. So, a young person who has no hard assets whatsoever but who founds a company that gets paper-valued at (say) 5 billion to justify a $500m cash investment will suddenly have a completely unpayable tax bill the day after closing a successful funding round. This would have killed every single transformative technology of the last 30 years in the cradle.

As far as I can tell, the people supporting this want just want to cede every single successful market segment the US has created to Chinese dominance. It is short-sighted and utterly stupid. I mean, it’s stupid to the point where the conspiracy theorist in me is wondering if the CCP is funneling money into social media to drive up support for it, so the US startup market will be killed off. I don’t really think that, but it has crossed my mind.

No. This is an idiotic statement that show no understanding of how the economy functions.

[Anonymous]

Switzerland has Cantonal-level wealth taxes that bite quite low (around 50K-200K taxable net worth after deductions). This translates to about 50% of the population paying wealth taxes each year.

https://thepoorswiss.com/wealth-tax/

No one is arguing that Switzerland is bad for business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Switzerland has Cantonal-level wealth taxes that bite quite low (around 50K-200K taxable net worth after deductions). This translates to about 50% of the population paying wealth taxes each year.

https://thepoorswiss.com/wealth-tax/

No one is arguing that Switzerland is bad for business.

Switzerland also keeps out nearly all immigrants, and had a total population that is not much more than the population of Los Angeles. They also don’t have a startup culture and new groundshaking companies almost never come out of Switzerland.

Ludicrous comparison, made by someone with no understanding of economics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It is idiotic. Among other profound issues, it will destroy the startup ecosystem that is making and has made the US into a global technology powerhouse because it doesn’t differentiate between realized and unrealized gains. So, a young person who has no hard assets whatsoever but who founds a company that gets paper-valued at (say) 5 billion to justify a $500m cash investment will suddenly have a completely unpayable tax bill the day after closing a successful funding round. This would have killed every single transformative technology of the last 30 years in the cradle.

As far as I can tell, the people supporting this want just want to cede every single successful market segment the US has created to Chinese dominance. It is short-sighted and utterly stupid. I mean, it’s stupid to the point where the conspiracy theorist in me is wondering if the CCP is funneling money into social media to drive up support for it, so the US startup market will be killed off. I don’t really think that, but it has crossed my mind.

No. This is an idiotic statement that show no understanding of how the economy functions.

You are the one who clearly has no understanding of how the economy functions. You probably don’t even understand what the term “unrealized gain” means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It is idiotic. Among other profound issues, it will destroy the startup ecosystem that is making and has made the US into a global technology powerhouse because it doesn’t differentiate between realized and unrealized gains. So, a young person who has no hard assets whatsoever but who founds a company that gets paper-valued at (say) 5 billion to justify a $500m cash investment will suddenly have a completely unpayable tax bill the day after closing a successful funding round. This would have killed every single transformative technology of the last 30 years in the cradle.

As far as I can tell, the people supporting this want just want to cede every single successful market segment the US has created to Chinese dominance. It is short-sighted and utterly stupid. I mean, it’s stupid to the point where the conspiracy theorist in me is wondering if the CCP is funneling money into social media to drive up support for it, so the US startup market will be killed off. I don’t really think that, but it has crossed my mind.

People hold stocks then take out loans to live on. Why can't they do the same to pay their taxes?

Oh my God. The ignorance is killing me. First of all, no, this is not what happens with startup equity. There are shady companies that will try to issue loans to rank-and-file employees (not founders) based on illiquid equity, though many companies now have restrictions on that practice and won’t allow illiquid equity to be used as collateral. And that is enforced with transfer restrictions: it can’t be used as collateral because of transfer blockages put into place by the transfer agents.

But founders couldn’t do that even if they wanted and the company allowed it (which would be non-standard in the first place now, under most company stock plans). They are bound by a different set of company rules to preserve the value of the startup. Pre-IPO or other exit, they are pretty limited in what they can do. And they most certainly cannot take out a loan big enough to pay this ridiculous and rapacious tax bill, using their nascent startup equity as collateral.

This is a tax designed to destroy the innovation engine of the US and cede control to China, plain and simple.

Someone should investigate your illiquid company for securities fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why it's a big deal. It's a onetime tax and it's likely not even half of their portfolio appreciation for one year. Assuming the supposed 10% increase year on year.

So if it successful then maybe they should tax everyone who has over a million in assets a one time tax of 5%. This is a slippery slope if it is legal to be able to get enough signatures to have a proposition appear on the ballot and then and have vote that arbitrarily a certain percentage of your money should be taken away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It is idiotic. Among other profound issues, it will destroy the startup ecosystem that is making and has made the US into a global technology powerhouse because it doesn’t differentiate between realized and unrealized gains. So, a young person who has no hard assets whatsoever but who founds a company that gets paper-valued at (say) 5 billion to justify a $500m cash investment will suddenly have a completely unpayable tax bill the day after closing a successful funding round. This would have killed every single transformative technology of the last 30 years in the cradle.

As far as I can tell, the people supporting this want just want to cede every single successful market segment the US has created to Chinese dominance. It is short-sighted and utterly stupid. I mean, it’s stupid to the point where the conspiracy theorist in me is wondering if the CCP is funneling money into social media to drive up support for it, so the US startup market will be killed off. I don’t really think that, but it has crossed my mind.

People hold stocks then take out loans to live on. Why can't they do the same to pay their taxes?

Oh my God. The ignorance is killing me. First of all, no, this is not what happens with startup equity. There are shady companies that will try to issue loans to rank-and-file employees (not founders) based on illiquid equity, though many companies now have restrictions on that practice and won’t allow illiquid equity to be used as collateral. And that is enforced with transfer restrictions: it can’t be used as collateral because of transfer blockages put into place by the transfer agents.

But founders couldn’t do that even if they wanted and the company allowed it (which would be non-standard in the first place now, under most company stock plans). They are bound by a different set of company rules to preserve the value of the startup. Pre-IPO or other exit, they are pretty limited in what they can do. And they most certainly cannot take out a loan big enough to pay this ridiculous and rapacious tax bill, using their nascent startup equity as collateral.

This is a tax designed to destroy the innovation engine of the US and cede control to China, plain and simple.

Someone should investigate your illiquid company for securities fraud.

Oh for Pete’s sake. You are too stupid to even insult correctly.