Dual enrollment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Montgomery County no because MCCC is frankly really bad. NOVA is well respected. California has community colleges that are better than many regional universities.

The place where DE might help is if the target is UMD. If this is the case then starting to work on a transfer path into your major is a good strategy.

It is so frustrating when people who obviously know nothing about DE spout out this kind of stuff. Personally I don’t care if people do DE or not but they should at least have access to accurate information to make their decisions.

Montgomery College is ranked one of the top community colleges in the country. Also, there is no DE transfer pathway to UMD. DE students must apply as freshman and get no transfer advantage.

MTAP is a transfer pathway program into UMD. Sounds like you are the one who is ill informed.

DE students cannot transfer. They can only apply as first year students. MTAP is a transfer program.

This is the specific language from the UMD prospective student page on their own website:
If you are a high school graduate who, at the time of applying, have completed at least 12 semester or 18 quarter hours after high school graduation at a regionally accredited college or university, then you are considered a transfer applicant.


Transfer students have to have completed their course work AFTER high school graduation. A dual enrolled student is by definition earning their college credits BEFORE high school graduation, so they apply as a first year student.

If they take a semester+ break after graduating high school, they count as a transfer I believe

I have never heard that and it does not match the language UMD publishes on how transfers are defined. The MTAP webpage also specifically calls out that dual enrolled high school students are not eligible. But it is possible you have some special knowledge here.

This is what UMD told me. The language is about whether you have graduated high school at the time of the application.

UMD told you that if you were a HS dual enrollment student and then took a semester off, without taking any additional classes, you could apply as a transfer student under MTAP?

No. They didn’t mention MTAP. They simply said that you are considered a freshman applicant if, at the time of application, you have not graduated high school, regardless of how many college credits you have, and that you are considered a transfer applicant if, at the time of application, you have a GE or high school diploma and more than a minimal amount of college credits.

I believe it is possible they told you this but for anyone else I’d do my homework and confirm directly. This contradicts their own webpage so it would feel worth double checking, at a minimum.

The minimum number of credits completed post high school to be a transfer applicant is 12.

So it’s consistent with what they told me. The minimum 12 credits will be satisfied easily by any student in DE. Thus, taking a gap semester/year after graduating high school turns you into a transfer student. Better to apply as a freshman and defer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Montgomery County no because MCCC is frankly really bad. NOVA is well respected. California has community colleges that are better than many regional universities.

The place where DE might help is if the target is UMD. If this is the case then starting to work on a transfer path into your major is a good strategy.

It is so frustrating when people who obviously know nothing about DE spout out this kind of stuff. Personally I don’t care if people do DE or not but they should at least have access to accurate information to make their decisions.

Montgomery College is ranked one of the top community colleges in the country. Also, there is no DE transfer pathway to UMD. DE students must apply as freshman and get no transfer advantage.

MTAP is a transfer pathway program into UMD. Sounds like you are the one who is ill informed.

DE students cannot transfer. They can only apply as first year students. MTAP is a transfer program.

This is the specific language from the UMD prospective student page on their own website:
If you are a high school graduate who, at the time of applying, have completed at least 12 semester or 18 quarter hours after high school graduation at a regionally accredited college or university, then you are considered a transfer applicant.


Transfer students have to have completed their course work AFTER high school graduation. A dual enrolled student is by definition earning their college credits BEFORE high school graduation, so they apply as a first year student.

If they take a semester+ break after graduating high school, they count as a transfer I believe

I have never heard that and it does not match the language UMD publishes on how transfers are defined. The MTAP webpage also specifically calls out that dual enrolled high school students are not eligible. But it is possible you have some special knowledge here.

This is what UMD told me. The language is about whether you have graduated high school at the time of the application.

UMD told you that if you were a HS dual enrollment student and then took a semester off, without taking any additional classes, you could apply as a transfer student under MTAP?

No. They didn’t mention MTAP. They simply said that you are considered a freshman applicant if, at the time of application, you have not graduated high school, regardless of how many college credits you have, and that you are considered a transfer applicant if, at the time of application, you have a GE or high school diploma and more than a minimal amount of college credits.

I believe it is possible they told you this but for anyone else I’d do my homework and confirm directly. This contradicts their own webpage so it would feel worth double checking, at a minimum.

The minimum number of credits completed post high school to be a transfer applicant is 12.

So it’s consistent with what they told me. The minimum 12 credits will be satisfied easily by any student in DE. Thus, taking a gap semester/year after graduating high school turns you into a transfer student. Better to apply as a freshman and defer

No, it is the opposite of what you wrote.

PP explicitly wrote credit had to be earned post high school. DE credits are earned during high school.

[Anonymous]

There's a funny donut for students who don't get into UMD from high school, but get so many DE/AP credits in high school, that they would need to take extra filler A-level classes outside of GenEd/major requirements in order to achieve 30 post-HS MC credits for MTAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP exams are often more rigorous than the equivalent community college classes. However, if a student picks advanced courses in dual enrollment that are not offered in their HS, that can look good.

It seems to me there are two issues that really need to be considered separately.

The first is whether admissions officers view DE as less rigorous than AP. I don’t doubt that there are some that do. One of the challenges of DE is that it is hard to compare apples to apples because the quality of a DE class will vary by school, class, and instructor. APs are standardized.

The second issue is whether DE classes at MC for MCPS classes are easier than APs. This is where, in my personal experience, they are not. I have two HS kids, one on a DE pathway, on at a local HS taking APs. They have taken many overlapping classes. On balance, the equivalent DE classes are harder, in part because of depth, in part because the grading policy can be less student friendly at the college level (particularly true prior to the recent change in grading policy at MCPS). The thing that makes APs harder is you have one bite at a single comprehensive AP test with no way to recover if you just have an off day that day.

From an admissions standpoint, if you consider that DE classes might in reality be harder to get an A, and you also believe AOs might view them as easier, there is no advantage to taking a DE class that is available as an AP class. Particularly if you want to target admissions to top (T20) schools.

The comparison of MC to a high school AP class is very dependent on the subject. Your experience probably doesn't translate to humanities and English classes.

[Anonymous]

Son is currently a dual enrollment student at MCCC. I am not impressed with the program. The program coordinator isn’t really all that helpful. She talks to the kids like they have taken college courses before and understand all of the terminology associated with it. She just expects the students to know what to do. We were told in the beginning several times that the DE students would have a direct pathway to UMD and automatic entry. That isn’t the case. We were told that all course materials were paid for. That’s also not the case. There are other procedures and policies that were not discussed. When I asked to see the program docs that address policy, the program coordinator ignored me twice. I don’t find the staff to be very professional at MCCC. They are often late to meetings or just don’t show up. It is true that DE students have to apply as freshman. We worked with a transition counselor to make sure we did this correctly on my son’s application to UMD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Montgomery County no because MCCC is frankly really bad. NOVA is well respected. California has community colleges that are better than many regional universities.

The place where DE might help is if the target is UMD. If this is the case then starting to work on a transfer path into your major is a good strategy.

It is so frustrating when people who obviously know nothing about DE spout out this kind of stuff. Personally I don’t care if people do DE or not but they should at least have access to accurate information to make their decisions.

Montgomery College is ranked one of the top community colleges in the country. Also, there is no DE transfer pathway to UMD. DE students must apply as freshman and get no transfer advantage.

MTAP is a transfer pathway program into UMD. Sounds like you are the one who is ill informed.

DE students cannot transfer. They can only apply as first year students. MTAP is a transfer program.

This is the specific language from the UMD prospective student page on their own website:
If you are a high school graduate who, at the time of applying, have completed at least 12 semester or 18 quarter hours after high school graduation at a regionally accredited college or university, then you are considered a transfer applicant.


Transfer students have to have completed their course work AFTER high school graduation. A dual enrolled student is by definition earning their college credits BEFORE high school graduation, so they apply as a first year student.

If they take a semester+ break after graduating high school, they count as a transfer I believe

I have never heard that and it does not match the language UMD publishes on how transfers are defined. The MTAP webpage also specifically calls out that dual enrolled high school students are not eligible. But it is possible you have some special knowledge here.

This is what UMD told me. The language is about whether you have graduated high school at the time of the application.

UMD told you that if you were a HS dual enrollment student and then took a semester off, without taking any additional classes, you could apply as a transfer student under MTAP?

No. They didn’t mention MTAP. They simply said that you are considered a freshman applicant if, at the time of application, you have not graduated high school, regardless of how many college credits you have, and that you are considered a transfer applicant if, at the time of application, you have a GE or high school diploma and more than a minimal amount of college credits.

I believe it is possible they told you this but for anyone else I’d do my homework and confirm directly. This contradicts their own webpage so it would feel worth double checking, at a minimum.

The minimum number of credits completed post high school to be a transfer applicant is 12.

So it’s consistent with what they told me. The minimum 12 credits will be satisfied easily by any student in DE. Thus, taking a gap semester/year after graduating high school turns you into a transfer student. Better to apply as a freshman and defer

No, it is the opposite of what you wrote.

PP explicitly wrote credit had to be earned post high school. DE credits are earned during high school.

That’s for MTAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Montgomery County no because MCCC is frankly really bad. NOVA is well respected. California has community colleges that are better than many regional universities.

The place where DE might help is if the target is UMD. If this is the case then starting to work on a transfer path into your major is a good strategy.

It is so frustrating when people who obviously know nothing about DE spout out this kind of stuff. Personally I don’t care if people do DE or not but they should at least have access to accurate information to make their decisions.

Montgomery College is ranked one of the top community colleges in the country. Also, there is no DE transfer pathway to UMD. DE students must apply as freshman and get no transfer advantage.

Ranked 86th - not really that high:

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-community-colleges/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Son is currently a dual enrollment student at MCCC. I am not impressed with the program. The program coordinator isn’t really all that helpful. She talks to the kids like they have taken college courses before and understand all of the terminology associated with it. She just expects the students to know what to do. We were told in the beginning several times that the DE students would have a direct pathway to UMD and automatic entry. That isn’t the case. We were told that all course materials were paid for. That’s also not the case. There are other procedures and policies that were not discussed. When I asked to see the program docs that address policy, the program coordinator ignored me twice. I don’t find the staff to be very professional at MCCC. They are often late to meetings or just don’t show up. It is true that DE students have to apply as freshman. We worked with a transition counselor to make sure we did this correctly on my son’s application to UMD.

This sounds like a troll post. There isn’t a “program coordinator” for dual enrollment at MC. The high schools have the program coordinators. How are you as a parent going to multiple meetings with MC staff? This is college, they don’t meet with parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP exams are often more rigorous than the equivalent community college classes. However, if a student picks advanced courses in dual enrollment that are not offered in their HS, that can look good.

It seems to me there are two issues that really need to be considered separately.

The first is whether admissions officers view DE as less rigorous than AP. I don’t doubt that there are some that do. One of the challenges of DE is that it is hard to compare apples to apples because the quality of a DE class will vary by school, class, and instructor. APs are standardized.

The second issue is whether DE classes at MC for MCPS classes are easier than APs. This is where, in my personal experience, they are not. I have two HS kids, one on a DE pathway, on at a local HS taking APs. They have taken many overlapping classes. On balance, the equivalent DE classes are harder, in part because of depth, in part because the grading policy can be less student friendly at the college level (particularly true prior to the recent change in grading policy at MCPS). The thing that makes APs harder is you have one bite at a single comprehensive AP test with no way to recover if you just have an off day that day.

From an admissions standpoint, if you consider that DE classes might in reality be harder to get an A, and you also believe AOs might view them as easier, there is no advantage to taking a DE class that is available as an AP class. Particularly if you want to target admissions to top (T20) schools.

The comparison of MC to a high school AP class is very dependent on the subject. Your experience probably doesn't translate to humanities and English classes.

I don’t know, I’d say world history was pretty comparable. Not every class they have has overlapped so it’s a little hard to say across every subject. Psych at MC was definitely more rigorous than the AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Son is currently a dual enrollment student at MCCC. I am not impressed with the program. The program coordinator isn’t really all that helpful. She talks to the kids like they have taken college courses before and understand all of the terminology associated with it. She just expects the students to know what to do. We were told in the beginning several times that the DE students would have a direct pathway to UMD and automatic entry. That isn’t the case. We were told that all course materials were paid for. That’s also not the case. There are other procedures and policies that were not discussed. When I asked to see the program docs that address policy, the program coordinator ignored me twice. I don’t find the staff to be very professional at MCCC. They are often late to meetings or just don’t show up. It is true that DE students have to apply as freshman. We worked with a transition counselor to make sure we did this correctly on my son’s application to UMD.

This sounds like a troll post. There isn’t a “program coordinator” for dual enrollment at MC. The high schools have the program coordinators. How are you as a parent going to multiple meetings with MC staff? This is college, they don’t meet with parents.

All of this.

Also anyone who is familiar with it calls it Montgomery College (MC).

My DE kids has always had everything paid for, including lab goggles, textbooks, lab notebooks, online platforms, etc. She once tried to pay for something at the bookstore and they wouldn’t even give it to her. The way the bookstore works you can only pick up pre-ordered and paid for materials and my DE kid doesn’t even have a way to order the materials herself so they have to be paid for by MCPS.

Again, I don’t care if others do DE or AP, I have one kid on each pathway. What I don’t understand is people who feel the need to mis-represent basic facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Son is currently a dual enrollment student at MCCC. I am not impressed with the program. The program coordinator isn’t really all that helpful. She talks to the kids like they have taken college courses before and understand all of the terminology associated with it. She just expects the students to know what to do. We were told in the beginning several times that the DE students would have a direct pathway to UMD and automatic entry. That isn’t the case. We were told that all course materials were paid for. That’s also not the case. There are other procedures and policies that were not discussed. When I asked to see the program docs that address policy, the program coordinator ignored me twice. I don’t find the staff to be very professional at MCCC. They are often late to meetings or just don’t show up. It is true that DE students have to apply as freshman. We worked with a transition counselor to make sure we did this correctly on my son’s application to UMD.

This sounds like a troll post. There isn’t a “program coordinator” for dual enrollment at MC. The high schools have the program coordinators. How are you as a parent going to multiple meetings with MC staff? This is college, they don’t meet with parents.

All of this.

Also anyone who is familiar with it calls it Montgomery College (MC).

My DE kids has always had everything paid for, including lab goggles, textbooks, lab notebooks, online platforms, etc. She once tried to pay for something at the bookstore and they wouldn’t even give it to her. The way the bookstore works you can only pick up pre-ordered and paid for materials and my DE kid doesn’t even have a way to order the materials herself so they have to be paid for by MCPS.

Again, I don’t care if others do DE or AP, I have one kid on each pathway. What I don’t understand is people who feel the need to mis-represent basic facts.

There are several different programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Montgomery County no because MCCC is frankly really bad. NOVA is well respected. California has community colleges that are better than many regional universities.

The place where DE might help is if the target is UMD. If this is the case then starting to work on a transfer path into your major is a good strategy.

It is so frustrating when people who obviously know nothing about DE spout out this kind of stuff. Personally I don’t care if people do DE or not but they should at least have access to accurate information to make their decisions.

Montgomery College is ranked one of the top community colleges in the country. Also, there is no DE transfer pathway to UMD. DE students must apply as freshman and get no transfer advantage.

Ranked 86th - not really that high:

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-community-colleges/

# 17 nationally
Montgomery College ranks No. 1 among Maryland community colleges https://share.google/PiaNACiTcrlnXDGtD

Montgomery College Ranked #1 in Maryland - The MoCo Show https://share.google/KU1xKLQXCEWeQGrE5

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Montgomery County no because MCCC is frankly really bad. NOVA is well respected. California has community colleges that are better than many regional universities.

The place where DE might help is if the target is UMD. If this is the case then starting to work on a transfer path into your major is a good strategy.

It is so frustrating when people who obviously know nothing about DE spout out this kind of stuff. Personally I don’t care if people do DE or not but they should at least have access to accurate information to make their decisions.

Montgomery College is ranked one of the top community colleges in the country. Also, there is no DE transfer pathway to UMD. DE students must apply as freshman and get no transfer advantage.

Ranked 86th - not really that high:

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-community-colleges/

There are roughly 1,000 community colleges. 86 out of 1000 is solid top 10%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Son is currently a dual enrollment student at MCCC. I am not impressed with the program. The program coordinator isn’t really all that helpful. She talks to the kids like they have taken college courses before and understand all of the terminology associated with it. She just expects the students to know what to do. We were told in the beginning several times that the DE students would have a direct pathway to UMD and automatic entry. That isn’t the case. We were told that all course materials were paid for. That’s also not the case. There are other procedures and policies that were not discussed. When I asked to see the program docs that address policy, the program coordinator ignored me twice. I don’t find the staff to be very professional at MCCC. They are often late to meetings or just don’t show up. It is true that DE students have to apply as freshman. We worked with a transition counselor to make sure we did this correctly on my son’s application to UMD.

This sounds like a troll post. There isn’t a “program coordinator” for dual enrollment at MC. The high schools have the program coordinators. How are you as a parent going to multiple meetings with MC staff? This is college, they don’t meet with parents.

All of this.

Also anyone who is familiar with it calls it Montgomery College (MC).

My DE kids has always had everything paid for, including lab goggles, textbooks, lab notebooks, online platforms, etc. She once tried to pay for something at the bookstore and they wouldn’t even give it to her. The way the bookstore works you can only pick up pre-ordered and paid for materials and my DE kid doesn’t even have a way to order the materials herself so they have to be paid for by MCPS.

Again, I don’t care if others do DE or AP, I have one kid on each pathway. What I don’t understand is people who feel the need to mis-represent basic facts.

There are several different programs.

I am aware of that but I’m not sure which program could possible be the intersection of all of these things at the same time (a coordinator at MC, paying your own cost directly, etc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Montgomery County no because MCCC is frankly really bad. NOVA is well respected. California has community colleges that are better than many regional universities.

The place where DE might help is if the target is UMD. If this is the case then starting to work on a transfer path into your major is a good strategy.

It is so frustrating when people who obviously know nothing about DE spout out this kind of stuff. Personally I don’t care if people do DE or not but they should at least have access to accurate information to make their decisions.

Montgomery College is ranked one of the top community colleges in the country. Also, there is no DE transfer pathway to UMD. DE students must apply as freshman and get no transfer advantage.

MTAP is a transfer pathway program into UMD. Sounds like you are the one who is ill informed.

DE students cannot transfer. They can only apply as first year students. MTAP is a transfer program.

This is the specific language from the UMD prospective student page on their own website:
If you are a high school graduate who, at the time of applying, have completed at least 12 semester or 18 quarter hours after high school graduation at a regionally accredited college or university, then you are considered a transfer applicant.


Transfer students have to have completed their course work AFTER high school graduation. A dual enrolled student is by definition earning their college credits BEFORE high school graduation, so they apply as a first year student.

If they take a semester+ break after graduating high school, they count as a transfer I believe

I have never heard that and it does not match the language UMD publishes on how transfers are defined. The MTAP webpage also specifically calls out that dual enrolled high school students are not eligible. But it is possible you have some special knowledge here.

This is what UMD told me. The language is about whether you have graduated high school at the time of the application.

UMD told you that if you were a HS dual enrollment student and then took a semester off, without taking any additional classes, you could apply as a transfer student under MTAP?

No. They didn’t mention MTAP. They simply said that you are considered a freshman applicant if, at the time of application, you have not graduated high school, regardless of how many college credits you have, and that you are considered a transfer applicant if, at the time of application, you have a GE or high school diploma and more than a minimal amount of college credits.

I believe it is possible they told you this but for anyone else I’d do my homework and confirm directly. This contradicts their own webpage so it would feel worth double checking, at a minimum.

The minimum number of credits completed post high school to be a transfer applicant is 12.

So it’s consistent with what they told me. The minimum 12 credits will be satisfied easily by any student in DE. Thus, taking a gap semester/year after graduating high school turns you into a transfer student. Better to apply as a freshman and defer

No, it is the opposite of what you wrote.

PP explicitly wrote credit had to be earned post high school. DE credits are earned during high school.

That’s for MTAP

It is for both participation in MTAP and it is literally in the definition of what is a transfer applicant on the UMD OUA site. 12 credits must be earned after the date of high school graduation to be a transfer applicant. DE credits do not count toward this number. Not sure why you insist on being loud and wrong about this but you are.

https://admissions.umd.edu/apply/transfer-applicants