Why Will or Won’t Euclid MS succeed?

[Anonymous]

I think it will succeed if your barometer is some UMC buy-in. But I think it could REALLY succeed if they made dramatic changes to Cardozo. My prediction is in 5 years all of the test-in high schools are going to be way overcrowded, in-demand charters will be even harder to get into - and one of the reason charters are so prized is because of a guaranteed high school path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it will succeed if your barometer is some UMC buy-in. But I think it could REALLY succeed if they made dramatic changes to Cardozo. My prediction is in 5 years all of the test-in high schools are going to be way overcrowded, in-demand charters will be even harder to get into - and one of the reason charters are so prized is because of a guaranteed high school path.

They already are overcrowded. By design application HS are small and have waitlists in the thousands.

[Anonymous]

I do think something has to give with the Euclid boundary by the time the building opens. The school is practically in the CHEC and Tubman boundaries. There are parts of Ross, Seaton, Thomson, Garrison, Oyster and Marie Reed where Francis-Stevens might make more sense. I predict current FS families and families in the south west side of the current Cardozo zone will not make the trek north to Euclid. Meaning that with current boundaries I don’t see a huge uptick for in-bound participation at Euclid over Cardozo.

And then you have parts of Bancroft and Raymond as well as Marie Reed and HD Cooke where CHEC might make sense. Then you have parts Tubman, Bruce-Monroe, Marie Reed, Cleveland, Garrison, and Seaton where Euclid makes sense.

All this to say whether it’s when the school opens or later, the boundaries I estimate will shift. Hopefully in a way that increases inbound participation at CHEC, FS and Euclid (assuming current Bancroft and Oyster families scream bloody murder at an infringement of their “rights”).

[Anonymous]

What I have trouble understanding is where the present student body of Cardozo actually lives. Is Cardozo just a commuter school? Would Euclid fill up with commuters just like Cardozo has?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think something has to give with the Euclid boundary by the time the building opens. The school is practically in the CHEC and Tubman boundaries. There are parts of Ross, Seaton, Thomson, Garrison, Oyster and Marie Reed where Francis-Stevens might make more sense. I predict current FS families and families in the south west side of the current Cardozo zone will not make the trek north to Euclid. Meaning that with current boundaries I don’t see a huge uptick for in-bound participation at Euclid over Cardozo.

And then you have parts of Bancroft and Raymond as well as Marie Reed and HD Cooke where CHEC might make sense. Then you have parts Tubman, Bruce-Monroe, Marie Reed, Cleveland, Garrison, and Seaton where Euclid makes sense.

All this to say whether it’s when the school opens or later, the boundaries I estimate will shift. Hopefully in a way that increases inbound participation at CHEC, FS and Euclid (assuming current Bancroft and Oyster families scream bloody murder at an infringement of their “rights”).

My understanding is that Thomson, Ross and Francis will still go to Francis after Euclid opens. Seaton, Cleveland and Garrison are zoned for Francis only temporarily. Kids at Francis, Ross, and Thomson who are in third grade or lower will only go to Euclid if they chose to lottery in. (Is that right, hive mind, re: feeder policy?)

I don't expect many Ross or Thomson - or certainly, Francis - families to opt for Euclid, given that it's an unknown and Francis is pretty solid. The school has lots of buy-in from Thomson already and is getting more from Ross every year.

I do think Euclid will succeed if the bar for success is "be better than Cardozo middle." It will not succeed - at least not for a long time - if the bar for success is "be a second Deal."

Is the bar for success "be the middle school version of Garrison?" - aka a desirable, diverse school with a reputation for academic differentiation and lots of community support? Then I think it is possible, but it will take major parent involvement and excellent leaders and teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I have trouble understanding is where the present student body of Cardozo actually lives. Is Cardozo just a commuter school? Would Euclid fill up with commuters just like Cardozo has?

DME has a tool for this! https://edscape.dc.gov/page/enrollments-dcps-boundary-00

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I have trouble understanding is where the present student body of Cardozo actually lives. Is Cardozo just a commuter school? Would Euclid fill up with commuters just like Cardozo has?

DME has a tool for this! https://edscape.dc.gov/page/enrollments-dcps-boundary-00

Wow. No one in boundary for Cardozo middle seems to go. Even without the chance to go to Francis (looked back a couple years).

[Anonymous]

As a parent at one of the feeder neighborhood elementaries, I can report that there is a LOT of positive hype around the middle school. It's been a big retention tool in keeping classes together - the third grade at our school is way bigger than the fourth grade, due in large part to it being the first grade to have the new middle school as an option. And many 2nd and 1st grade families are talking about how it allows them to stay in the neighborhood. I think a lot of parents at Garrison, Seaton, and Cleveland want a reason to stay where they live, and that combined with the lack of appealing middle school options may inure to the benefit of the new school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent at one of the feeder neighborhood elementaries, I can report that there is a LOT of positive hype around the middle school. It's been a big retention tool in keeping classes together - the third grade at our school is way bigger than the fourth grade, due in large part to it being the first grade to have the new middle school as an option. And many 2nd and 1st grade families are talking about how it allows them to stay in the neighborhood. I think a lot of parents at Garrison, Seaton, and Cleveland want a reason to stay where they live, and that combined with the lack of appealing middle school options may inure to the benefit of the new school.

Since the school doesn't exist yet, it's easy for parents to just fill in the gaps with their dream school.

Once it exists, this will either fall apart (if it is just like Cardozo middle school was) or continue with some optimism (if it's closer to a Stuart Hobson).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that Thomson, Ross and Francis will still go to Francis after Euclid opens. Seaton, Cleveland and Garrison are zoned for Francis only temporarily. Kids at Francis, Ross, and Thomson who are in third grade or lower will only go to Euclid if they chose to lottery in. (Is that right, hive mind, re: feeder policy?)

Yes, this is correct. Francis is now the permanent feeder school for Thomson and Ross. DCPS closed Cardozo middle grades, so Seaton, Cleveland, and Garrison needed to have rights somewhere, which is temporarily Francis until they have permanent rights at Euclid (whatever they end up naming that).

[Anonymous]

I used to live in-bounds for Euclid, and now am in-bounds for Macfarland. I know many Ward 4 families who love their neighborhood elementary schools but are very nervous about middle school - Deal and Hardy are super far, even if you can get in. I've always thought Euclid may be a good solution for a lot of these families if there is room to lottery in since it would be on the way downtown for parents who are commuting for work, or an easy shot on a bus line versus taking multiple buses to Hardy, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to live in-bounds for Euclid, and now am in-bounds for Macfarland. I know many Ward 4 families who love their neighborhood elementary schools but are very nervous about middle school - Deal and Hardy are super far, even if you can get in. I've always thought Euclid may be a good solution for a lot of these families if there is room to lottery in since it would be on the way downtown for parents who are commuting for work, or an easy shot on a bus line versus taking multiple buses to Hardy, etc.

We're IB for Jefferson. Euclid wouldn't be our first choice, but it's about the same distance as John Francis and Eliot-Hine via transit. Definitely going to be watching with interest.

[Anonymous]

some people without boundary or feeder rights will lottery amongst Euclid, John Francis, and the other nearby (or not so nearby) options. that is probably okay. this board presumes most will prefer John Francis but i think the preference for students closer to Euclid will pretty quickly shift to Euclid. i vote successful in the same general sense that the hill middle schools are (an overall pretty solid option with some positive features, some neighborhood buy-in, increasingly considered good enough at least for some families to not commute far across town for a lottery school option, but not quite a widely praised or super popular choice on this board).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think something has to give with the Euclid boundary by the time the building opens. The school is practically in the CHEC and Tubman boundaries. There are parts of Ross, Seaton, Thomson, Garrison, Oyster and Marie Reed where Francis-Stevens might make more sense. I predict current FS families and families in the south west side of the current Cardozo zone will not make the trek north to Euclid. Meaning that with current boundaries I don’t see a huge uptick for in-bound participation at Euclid over Cardozo.

And then you have parts of Bancroft and Raymond as well as Marie Reed and HD Cooke where CHEC might make sense. Then you have parts Tubman, Bruce-Monroe, Marie Reed, Cleveland, Garrison, and Seaton where Euclid makes sense.

All this to say whether it’s when the school opens or later, the boundaries I estimate will shift. Hopefully in a way that increases inbound participation at CHEC, FS and Euclid (assuming current Bancroft and Oyster families scream bloody murder at an infringement of their “rights”).

This is obvious if you just look at the maps. Bancroft currently has programmatic feeder rights to CHEC, but it still doesn’t make sense when CHEC is literally across 16th Street from the Bancroft boundary. Plus there are plans to open a Pre-K center in the Tubman boundary in the old DPR building next to CHEC. That plus opening more middle school capacity in Ward 1 will be the needed events to remove Bancroft from the Deal orbit. All the feeder patterns in central DC will need reworked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think something has to give with the Euclid boundary by the time the building opens. The school is practically in the CHEC and Tubman boundaries. There are parts of Ross, Seaton, Thomson, Garrison, Oyster and Marie Reed where Francis-Stevens might make more sense. I predict current FS families and families in the south west side of the current Cardozo zone will not make the trek north to Euclid. Meaning that with current boundaries I don’t see a huge uptick for in-bound participation at Euclid over Cardozo.

And then you have parts of Bancroft and Raymond as well as Marie Reed and HD Cooke where CHEC might make sense. Then you have parts Tubman, Bruce-Monroe, Marie Reed, Cleveland, Garrison, and Seaton where Euclid makes sense.

All this to say whether it’s when the school opens or later, the boundaries I estimate will shift. Hopefully in a way that increases inbound participation at CHEC, FS and Euclid (assuming current Bancroft and Oyster families scream bloody murder at an infringement of their “rights”).

This is obvious if you just look at the maps. Bancroft currently has programmatic feeder rights to CHEC, but it still doesn’t make sense when CHEC is literally across 16th Street from the Bancroft boundary. Plus there are plans to open a Pre-K center in the Tubman boundary in the old DPR building next to CHEC. That plus opening more middle school capacity in Ward 1 will be the needed events to remove Bancroft from the Deal orbit. All the feeder patterns in central DC will need reworked.

They can also better organize the MS feeder pattern for bilingual schools. Right now they have Tubman and others going to CHEC for a bilingual program and bilingual schools are not directly fed into CHEC or MacFarland. Makes no sense.