Doctors make too much money

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doc here. I left clinical medicine because the salary was rather low given my options. If I have to miss out on my kids life and my own life, I also have to maximize hourly compensation. Now I make more money doing something else. The expense of healthcare is not because of the doctors.

What are you doing now? Want to know as one family member who is doctor also interested in leaving clinical medicine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Went to the ortho. Was seen initially by the trainee. The tech staff did all of the work for the xray. Doc comes in, does one minor mechanical test, looks at the xray for 15 seconds, and then prescribes steroids and P/T. Co-pay was $50, and they're probably charging my insurance well north of $400+ for the entite visit not even counting the trays. I think his entire visit was less than 4 minutes long. So in otherwords, if we were to extrapolate my $500 (approx.) visit out to one hour, he's earning $6000/hour, roughly speaking.

That is just patently ABSURD. Yes, we all know the middlemen like insurance companies, PBMS, etc. are all terrible and are driving up costs, but why are doctors and their practices untouchable? We treat them like gods in America point they are immune to criticism, but often times they do minutes of work for outrageous fees that AI could probably do soon for 1/1000th the cost. Why can't we ever talk about how doctors are also fleecing America and driving up healthcare costs? They treat patients like cash cows. More volume = more cash = fancier Porsche and bigger house.

I am just disgusted with the entire practice of medicine in America from top to bottom.

Go see a witch doctor or shaman next time you need medical care. All you’ll have a to pay is a couple of live chickens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doc here. I left clinical medicine because the salary was rather low given my options. If I have to miss out on my kids life and my own life, I also have to maximize hourly compensation. Now I make more money doing something else. The expense of healthcare is not because of the doctors.

What are you doing now? Want to know as one family member who is doctor also interested in leaving clinical medicine.

DP. I have 2 cousins who left clinical practice. One is a director of a drug research group in big Pharma and the other one is a consultant to medical device startups.

[Anonymous]

You're so ignorant, OP. Doctors don't see half of the money you're paying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You're so ignorant, OP. Doctors don't see half of the money you're paying.

The funny part is that it's not even half - it's over an order of magnitude off especially extrapolating 5 mins into an hourly wage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Went to the ortho. Was seen initially by the trainee. The tech staff did all of the work for the xray. Doc comes in, does one minor mechanical test, looks at the xray for 15 seconds, and then prescribes steroids and P/T. Co-pay was $50, and they're probably charging my insurance well north of $400+ for the entite visit not even counting the trays. I think his entire visit was less than 4 minutes long. So in otherwords, if we were to extrapolate my $500 (approx.) visit out to one hour, he's earning $6000/hour, roughly speaking.

That is just patently ABSURD. Yes, we all know the middlemen like insurance companies, PBMS, etc. are all terrible and are driving up costs, but why are doctors and their practices untouchable? We treat them like gods in America point they are immune to criticism, but often times they do minutes of work for outrageous fees that AI could probably do soon for 1/1000th the cost. Why can't we ever talk about how doctors are also fleecing America and driving up healthcare costs? They treat patients like cash cows. More volume = more cash = fancier Porsche and bigger house.

I am just disgusted with the entire practice of medicine in America from top to bottom.

You're not just paying for his time. You're also paying for his expertise in interpreting the Xray, assessing the systems, knowing what Rx and therapies to order, and, last but not least, dealing with idiots like you

[Anonymous]

So, we all agree the OP is ignorant and an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doc here. I left clinical medicine because the salary was rather low given my options. If I have to miss out on my kids life and my own life, I also have to maximize hourly compensation. Now I make more money doing something else. The expense of healthcare is not because of the doctors.

Except yes, it is. The fact you could make more money elsewhere doesn’t disprove that. The relative compensation of doctors and nurses and NPs and PAs in other first world countries is how we know that’s a major factor.

A few differences are that, in much of the world, doctors are able to go directly to medical school rather than to college first, adding substantial additional costs and 4 additional years not in the workforce. Then they are quite underpaid through residencies, which can last for a few-to-many years. So they are able to start practicing later and more substantially in debt (this especially layering on the comparative cost of college/med school in the US). Then, depending on their type of practice, they or they employer need to pay comparatively astronomical insurance premiums. All to say that there are several factors are play that are quite different from those in other developed countries, and that's not even getting into both the pros and cons of government healthcare providing systems. At least of my close friends who went into medicine, they are uniformly among the most dedicated, hard-working and smartest people I know. And when I compare their compensation to, say, my lawyer (I'm a lawyer), tech, finance friends, they are way, way underpaid. That said, there are of course some professions that are worse in terms of pay (notably teaching especially through high school), but at least teaching has pretty low formals barriers to entry (both in terms of comparative length, rigor and cost of requirements).

[Anonymous]

Doctors in the US typically make much more than their peers in other countries. I am defending or arguing against the status quo but do think AI is going transform much of medicine and will affect salaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Insurance executives make too much money. Not doctors.

Even if that’s morally true it’s not an explanation for systemic costs. One CEO making too much is a drop in the bucket relative to hundreds of thousands of doctors making much more than European/Canadian/Australian doctors.

You couldn't be more wrong

Unfortunately, I am right. And it’s why our healthcare costs are so unsolvable. We don’t want to pay providers as little as they would make in countries who have healthcare costs more under control.

It’s “under control” because the government pays for the health care. Are you saying you want to pay that much more in taxes every year, for everyone to have very affordable health care and almost no access to specialists? Multiple year wait time for surgeries like knee and hip replacements? Just so that you can stick it to the doctors who you think are making too much money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the differences in incomes between specialists is too great so in the respect of agree your ortho makes you much but ffs, op-use your head!

How do you think the lights in building stay on, the tech gets paid, the receptionist greets you and checks you in, your insurance gets billed etc etc. you can’t think he’s getting anywhere close to your dubious “hourly rate.”

Agreed. Honestly, though, the whole practice is probably owned by the hospital which is owned by some venture capital firm. Your doctor probably just gets a salary the same way the x-ray tech and the receptionist do.

+1. What the doctor bills is not what the doctor makes.

Also, the amount on your bill and EOB bears no relation to the cost of services. Those numbers are negotiated as a package with the insurer and together they decide that procedure x will be billed as $500 regardless of what they know it costs in time and resources. If you ask a hospital for the self-insured rate it will be different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doc here. I left clinical medicine because the salary was rather low given my options. If I have to miss out on my kids life and my own life, I also have to maximize hourly compensation. Now I make more money doing something else. The expense of healthcare is not because of the doctors.

Except yes, it is. The fact you could make more money elsewhere doesn’t disprove that. The relative compensation of doctors and nurses and NPs and PAs in other first world countries is how we know that’s a major factor.

A few differences are that, in much of the world, doctors are able to go directly to medical school rather than to college first, adding substantial additional costs and 4 additional years not in the workforce. Then they are quite underpaid through residencies, which can last for a few-to-many years. So they are able to start practicing later and more substantially in debt (this especially layering on the comparative cost of college/med school in the US). Then, depending on their type of practice, they or they employer need to pay comparatively astronomical insurance premiums. All to say that there are several factors are play that are quite different from those in other developed countries, and that's not even getting into both the pros and cons of government healthcare providing systems. At least of my close friends who went into medicine, they are uniformly among the most dedicated, hard-working and smartest people I know. And when I compare their compensation to, say, my lawyer (I'm a lawyer), tech, finance friends, they are way, way underpaid. That said, there are of course some professions that are worse in terms of pay (notably teaching especially through high school), but at least teaching has pretty low formals barriers to entry (both in terms of comparative length, rigor and cost of requirements).

Every time I see a multi million dollar malpractice lawsuit in the news, or hear people casually throwing out the idea of suing a doctor for making a mistake, I think to myself, that’s why your health care costs so much. The practices are paying thousands and thousands and thousands a month in malpractice insurance because, ‘Murica! (I mean it’s one of the reasons health care costs so much in the US, not the only reason)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doc here. I left clinical medicine because the salary was rather low given my options. If I have to miss out on my kids life and my own life, I also have to maximize hourly compensation. Now I make more money doing something else. The expense of healthcare is not because of the doctors.

Except yes, it is. The fact you could make more money elsewhere doesn’t disprove that. The relative compensation of doctors and nurses and NPs and PAs in other first world countries is how we know that’s a major factor.

A few differences are that, in much of the world, doctors are able to go directly to medical school rather than to college first, adding substantial additional costs and 4 additional years not in the workforce. Then they are quite underpaid through residencies, which can last for a few-to-many years. So they are able to start practicing later and more substantially in debt (this especially layering on the comparative cost of college/med school in the US). Then, depending on their type of practice, they or they employer need to pay comparatively astronomical insurance premiums. All to say that there are several factors are play that are quite different from those in other developed countries, and that's not even getting into both the pros and cons of government healthcare providing systems. At least of my close friends who went into medicine, they are uniformly among the most dedicated, hard-working and smartest people I know. And when I compare their compensation to, say, my lawyer (I'm a lawyer), tech, finance friends, they are way, way underpaid. That said, there are of course some professions that are worse in terms of pay (notably teaching especially through high school), but at least teaching has pretty low formals barriers to entry (both in terms of comparative length, rigor and cost of requirements).

Every time I see a multi million dollar malpractice lawsuit in the news, or hear people casually throwing out the idea of suing a doctor for making a mistake, I think to myself, that’s why your health care costs so much. The practices are paying thousands and thousands and thousands a month in malpractice insurance because, ‘Murica! (I mean it’s one of the reasons health care costs so much in the US, not the only reason)

I understand some cases settle out of expediency, but they have to have a leg to stand on to get that far. Which means somebody was injured and somebody screwed up.
My overall reaction to the lawsuit issue is "maybe do less malpractice."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doc here. I left clinical medicine because the salary was rather low given my options. If I have to miss out on my kids life and my own life, I also have to maximize hourly compensation. Now I make more money doing something else. The expense of healthcare is not because of the doctors.

What are you doing now? Want to know as one family member who is doctor also interested in leaving clinical medicine.

Not the PP, but a friend that did this went to work for a VC firm. Always more money in finance.

That said, physicians are work horses. They have to be present to make money. Lots of easier jobs that you can outsource, work remote, have flexibility, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doc here. I left clinical medicine because the salary was rather low given my options. If I have to miss out on my kids life and my own life, I also have to maximize hourly compensation. Now I make more money doing something else. The expense of healthcare is not because of the doctors.

Except yes, it is. The fact you could make more money elsewhere doesn’t disprove that. The relative compensation of doctors and nurses and NPs and PAs in other first world countries is how we know that’s a major factor.

A few differences are that, in much of the world, doctors are able to go directly to medical school rather than to college first, adding substantial additional costs and 4 additional years not in the workforce. Then they are quite underpaid through residencies, which can last for a few-to-many years. So they are able to start practicing later and more substantially in debt (this especially layering on the comparative cost of college/med school in the US). Then, depending on their type of practice, they or they employer need to pay comparatively astronomical insurance premiums. All to say that there are several factors are play that are quite different from those in other developed countries, and that's not even getting into both the pros and cons of government healthcare providing systems. At least of my close friends who went into medicine, they are uniformly among the most dedicated, hard-working and smartest people I know. And when I compare their compensation to, say, my lawyer (I'm a lawyer), tech, finance friends, they are way, way underpaid. That said, there are of course some professions that are worse in terms of pay (notably teaching especially through high school), but at least teaching has pretty low formals barriers to entry (both in terms of comparative length, rigor and cost of requirements).

Every time I see a multi million dollar malpractice lawsuit in the news, or hear people casually throwing out the idea of suing a doctor for making a mistake, I think to myself, that’s why your health care costs so much. The practices are paying thousands and thousands and thousands a month in malpractice insurance because, ‘Murica! (I mean it’s one of the reasons health care costs so much in the US, not the only reason)

I understand some cases settle out of expediency, but they have to have a leg to stand on to get that far. Which means somebody was injured and somebody screwed up.
My overall reaction to the lawsuit issue is "maybe do less malpractice."

Ish. I've known multiple people sued for right to life issues. E.g. tubal ligations, missed pregnancy diagnosis. Things that aren't actually impaired for life.

On the other hand, a FedEx truck hit my friend in a crosswalk and she had pain issues for life. They settled for 30K.