“Challenging” an AP exam (taking exam without having had the AP class) — is this common and how realistic is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do students ever take an AP exam for which they have never had a class, but just try to self study? For example, if they have not had a psychology class, but do a lot of self study, is it realistic to think that they could score well on the Psych AP exam?

Sure, homeschoolers do this all the time.
Anki is a great tool for memorization
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1320299468
https://www.reddit.com/r/APStudents/comments/bwzep4/free_comprehensive_ap_psych_flash_cards/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My high schooler is telling me that some students are challenging AP exams, which means they take a test without having taken the AP class. My understanding is this is happening with a handful of exams for which the school doesn’t offer that AP class, but students want to try to see if they can still score well on the exam.

Has anyone had a child do this?

Almost all of the AP tests are easily crammable (to get a 5) if you have a smart kid that is good with memorizing things. Seriously, the AP curriculum needs to either be corrected or half of the courses/tests should be eliminated or renamed.

Please don't believe this person. The hard APs (Chem, Bio, Physics C, both Calc, US History, World History, Government and others) need months of intensive study. The AP Computer Science Principles has a project that's done before the day of the exam. The Art AP needs a portfolio, I believe. The number of APs that someone can just rapidly cram and do well on are few and far between. I'm going to say that they don't exist. The average kid needs to study for all of them.

Observe the above bolded words. If you don't know, you don't know. But months of intensive study? Kids take 2-4 of these "difficult" classes at the same time so do they need months-s-s-s of intensive study? If your kid is struggling like this, they shouldn't be taking the class. Or, as I suggested, the curriculum needs to be reformed or eliminated. If they just added a score of 6 to the test where only some small fraction could score, or made a bell curve out of scores 1-10 with normal standard deviations, then this wouldn't be a problem. However if 10-25% of kids can score a 5 (which only requires a 70% on the test), then yes, most of the tests are easily crammable. Or do you really think that so many kids are struggling to do well in school?

PP you replied to. My son, now in college, took a dozen APs and my daughter is on her way to taking about 14. Yes, it takes months of intensive study to get a 5 on the hardest AP courses. As a matter of fact, I do know. I saw/see my kids study. You seem to be confusing "content difficulty" with "work". Depending on each student's intellectual propensities, some content might indeed be difficult to understand. But the work involved, even if the content is easy to grasp, will never be nil, or close to nil. Most AP exams do involve knowledge of the subject matter and memorization of same. That is WORK. You can't just wing it and you should stop spreading disinformation to that effect.

Do your kids have a time-turner or something? How are the dedicating multiple months per exam with only 12 months in the year? Or do you not realize that studying for one test is far easier than studying for 14? Of relevance to the OP, the psychology AP is relatively easy to study for - 30 days is enough time, especially considering your kids are giving their APs less than a month each of study time.

[Anonymous]

My kid self-studied Micro and Micro because he plans to minor in Econ in college and his HS doesn't offer those classes. He got a 5 on both, thought they were easy, but it is a subject he's been interested in /has read about since middle school. Maybe that helped?

Not sure he would've had a similar outcome self-studying calc, physics, chemistry, etc.

[Anonymous]

^^Should be Micro and Macro

[Anonymous]

Some APs really aren’t that hard/kids might just have the knowledge needed from other classes or reading books. You need to study a bit to understand format and grading of the AP, but I’ve seen kids do well on AP Lang, Lit , Government, language exams, without taking the courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My high schooler is telling me that some students are challenging AP exams, which means they take a test without having taken the AP class. My understanding is this is happening with a handful of exams for which the school doesn’t offer that AP class, but students want to try to see if they can still score well on the exam.

Has anyone had a child do this?

Almost all of the AP tests are easily crammable (to get a 5) if you have a smart kid that is good with memorizing things. Seriously, the AP curriculum needs to either be corrected or half of the courses/tests should be eliminated or renamed.

Please don't believe this person. The hard APs (Chem, Bio, Physics C, both Calc, US History, World History, Government and others) need months of intensive study. The AP Computer Science Principles has a project that's done before the day of the exam. The Art AP needs a portfolio, I believe. The number of APs that someone can just rapidly cram and do well on are few and far between. I'm going to say that they don't exist. The average kid needs to study for all of them.

Observe the above bolded words. If you don't know, you don't know. But months of intensive study? Kids take 2-4 of these "difficult" classes at the same time so do they need months-s-s-s of intensive study? If your kid is struggling like this, they shouldn't be taking the class. Or, as I suggested, the curriculum needs to be reformed or eliminated. If they just added a score of 6 to the test where only some small fraction could score, or made a bell curve out of scores 1-10 with normal standard deviations, then this wouldn't be a problem. However if 10-25% of kids can score a 5 (which only requires a 70% on the test), then yes, most of the tests are easily crammable. Or do you really think that so many kids are struggling to do well in school?

PP you replied to. My son, now in college, took a dozen APs and my daughter is on her way to taking about 14. Yes, it takes months of intensive study to get a 5 on the hardest AP courses. As a matter of fact, I do know. I saw/see my kids study. You seem to be confusing "content difficulty" with "work". Depending on each student's intellectual propensities, some content might indeed be difficult to understand. But the work involved, even if the content is easy to grasp, will never be nil, or close to nil. Most AP exams do involve knowledge of the subject matter and memorization of same. That is WORK. You can't just wing it and you should stop spreading disinformation to that effect.

Do your kids have a time-turner or something? How are the dedicating multiple months per exam with only 12 months in the year? Or do you not realize that studying for one test is far easier than studying for 14? Of relevance to the OP, the psychology AP is relatively easy to study for - 30 days is enough time, especially considering your kids are giving their APs less than a month each of study time.

As the one who once studied the wrong thing, and still got a pretty good score: I liked history and had read enormous amounts of it over the years. Thus I was able to rely on e.g. memories of Will and Ariel Durant's thirteen volume "Story of Civilization". Little need to dedicate extra time. Ditto for international government; a lot I'd picked up from history, the rest from a subscription to the Economist, copies of the almanac, and listening to shortwave radio broadcasts. I don't remember doing anything explicitly for that test. If I had more (or any) executive function, I probably could've tried for another reading-heavy test, just making sure that I hit most of those readings over the summer. Though paying more attention to my actual classes would've been an even better idea. But I digress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid self-studied Micro and Micro because he plans to minor in Econ in college and his HS doesn't offer those classes. He got a 5 on both, thought they were easy, but it is a subject he's been interested in /has read about since middle school. Maybe that helped?

Not sure he would've had a similar outcome self-studying calc, physics, chemistry, etc.

He should take as much math as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid self-studied Micro and Micro because he plans to minor in Econ in college and his HS doesn't offer those classes. He got a 5 on both, thought they were easy, but it is a subject he's been interested in /has read about since middle school. Maybe that helped?

Not sure he would've had a similar outcome self-studying calc, physics, chemistry, etc.

He should take as much math as possible.

Also calc is quite self study-able for students with a solid algebra background. If he wants to go to grad school in econ, he should take as much math as possible - pretty much an entire math major sans number theory and abstract algebra.

[Anonymous]

Do IB diploma kids do this in their high-level subjects? I'm a bit worried about universities not understanding the predicted IB scores, and that having an confirmed AP exam score might be a good option to validate my kid's abilities in that subject area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid self-studied Micro and Micro because he plans to minor in Econ in college and his HS doesn't offer those classes. He got a 5 on both, thought they were easy, but it is a subject he's been interested in /has read about since middle school. Maybe that helped?

Not sure he would've had a similar outcome self-studying calc, physics, chemistry, etc.

He should take as much math as possible.

Yeah he’s a HS senior now and has taken a ton of math classes. 2 math classes per year since sophomore year. Is in mv calc/linear alg now - which is challenging him for sure. And also another post ap math that covers a variety of topics.

Hopefully will be well prepared for econ and/or engineering in college.

[Anonymous]

Yes, my senior is sitting for the AP Chem and AP Drawing exams without an in person class because her private school isn’t offering them this year.
Her school is arranging the testing at school. She is studying by taking the AP Chemistry module through Acellus and an Outschool study group.
In retrospect, trying to find an evening Chemistry class she could have taken through dual-enrollment May have been easier. She is hoping to attend MacGill for Chemistry so she needed the AP Chem. The AP Drawing was something she wanted to do.

We will see if this was a good path or not soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And no, you cannot take an AP exam without preparation or background knowledge and hope to do well on it.

For a couple you can. In 2019 with paper tests, my DC signed up last minute for AP Human Geography and with no additional preparation beyond their strong history background scored a 4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do IB diploma kids do this in their high-level subjects? I'm a bit worried about universities not understanding the predicted IB scores, and that having an confirmed AP exam score might be a good option to validate my kid's abilities in that subject area.

The students in the RM IBDP typically sit both the AP and IB versions of their tests. They find it easier to consistently score a 5 on AP exams, compared to 6-7 on IB. They want the credit acceptance flexibility, even though many end up at schools that don’t offer the credits.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes some of the sections have weird rules and strategies (like DBQs and that at least when I took the AP exams, the strategy actually differed between the exams). So for that reason even a kid who's really good at a subject should at a minimum go through some prep materials and take some practice exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid self-studied Micro and Micro because he plans to minor in Econ in college and his HS doesn't offer those classes. He got a 5 on both, thought they were easy, but it is a subject he's been interested in /has read about since middle school. Maybe that helped?

Not sure he would've had a similar outcome self-studying calc, physics, chemistry, etc.

He should take as much math as possible.

Yeah he’s a HS senior now and has taken a ton of math classes. 2 math classes per year since sophomore year. Is in mv calc/linear alg now - which is challenging him for sure. And also another post ap math that covers a variety of topics.

Hopefully will be well prepared for econ and/or engineering in college.

He'll be over-prepared for econ. He should consider applied math or operations research or industrial engineering if he likes both econ and engineering.