Robyn Lady Wants to Eliminate AP in FCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, need to get rid of AP for equity reasons. More dumbing down of the educational opportunities FCPS. We can’t raise the floor so let’s lower the the ceiling to obtain equitable outcomes.

That's how they can finally close the achievement gap. Nothing else has worked as effectively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know much about it. AP seems to me to be working.
She did say Cambridge is much cheaper.

But, I don't see anything happening on that front this year. Too many other moving parts.

AAP culminates in TJ for our top students.

Why switch to another european program when IB is such a failure and waste of money?

She's talking about eliminating AP, not AAP.

But, yeah, she's pretty out there to toss out the idea of eliminating AP.

Girl needs a better filter.

https://www.cambridgeinternational.org/why-choose-us/find-a-cambridge-school/

Just tried out this find it link. Clicked on a couple of states--just get a town/city or two in the states listed.

So, of course FCPS will jump on something unneeded and untested.

The schools in PWCPS that have the Carnegie Programme also have AP classes. So they did not get rid of AP for Cambridge.

It’s apparently just one HS in PWCPS - Brentsville.

No interest in our kids being Robyn Lady’s guinea pigs just so she can squeeze a few more dollars out of successful AP schools to spend on friends benefits for her friends at Gatehouse and Chantilly. She’s a big disappointment. Keep AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she really thinks it's expensive do what our private school does - make parents pay for the exam.

I know, I know, equity. But I believe parents would pick that over some alternative very few people have heard of for purposes of the college admissions rat race.

Pay for one AP a year for everyone and additional APs for FARMs kids. Families not on FARMs can apply based on need.

Sure, that works too, as long as you don't have to hire so many people to review applications that you get rid of the savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good

+1

Eliminating AP can help in closing the racial achievement gap in FCPS from the top down.

Get rid of AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she really thinks it's expensive do what our private school does - make parents pay for the exam.

I know, I know, equity. But I believe parents would pick that over some alternative very few people have heard of for purposes of the college admissions rat race.

Pay for one AP a year for everyone and additional APs for FARMs kids. Families not on FARMs can apply based on need.

Sure, that works too, as long as you don't have to hire so many people to review applications that you get rid of the savings.

No. Just use FARMS.

[Anonymous]

I support eliminating AP in FCPS. When a class is built around one national exam in May, the whole year bends toward that one and only finish line. Teachers feel the clock, units get rushed, and kids learn to chase coverage instead of wrestling with ideas. You get fewer long labs and no extended writing projects because those take time. That’s not a knock on our teachers, its just what the AP pacing guide demands. If FCPS were to ditch the AP exam treadmill, we can slow down and ask students to produce REAL work like papers, data analyses, product design and performances. This would allow students to actually learn how to think vs just learning how to just recall under a stopwatch.

Also, the research on AP for college prep is pretty dim. High scores do not correlate with better outcomes because those students never really learned the material. Simply sitting in an AP seat doesn’t move the needle much. FCPS can build equally rigorous advanced courses that are writing and analysis heavy, with capstones and move away from just enriching the College Board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I support eliminating AP in FCPS. When a class is built around one national exam in May, the whole year bends toward that one and only finish line. Teachers feel the clock, units get rushed, and kids learn to chase coverage instead of wrestling with ideas. You get fewer long labs and no extended writing projects because those take time. That’s not a knock on our teachers, its just what the AP pacing guide demands. If FCPS were to ditch the AP exam treadmill, we can slow down and ask students to produce REAL work like papers, data analyses, product design and performances. This would allow students to actually learn how to think vs just learning how to just recall under a stopwatch.

Also, the research on AP for college prep is pretty dim. High scores do not correlate with better outcomes because those students never really learned the material. Simply sitting in an AP seat doesn’t move the needle much. FCPS can build equally rigorous advanced courses that are writing and analysis heavy, with capstones and move away from just enriching the College Board.

If students were not learning the material, colleges would not be granting credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not a numbers person. But, I remember a few years ago, that it was fairly easy to see how much IB cost vs AP. It was significant. I'm not just talking about the tests, but the training and the personnel.

i've tried to find it again, and I am extremely confused.

Does anyone here understand what I am talking about?

I think one of the things was the pay for the IB coordinator in each school. Also, for the training, etc, of IB teachers.

There are costs associated with the AP program as well. I think the real issue with IB is that the costs do not seem to translate to a reasonable number of kids completing the IB Diploma or even taking a reasonable number of IB tests. The cost per pupil ends up being far higher because of the smaller number of students that end up in the classes, taking the tests, or finishing the diploma. AP classes are shorter, 1 year compared to 2 years for IB courses, and are far more varied in their options so they are more available to students then IB classes. IB you have to take the IB tests as seniors, regardless of when you finish the class so it is more stressful and you end up with fewer kids taking multiple IB sciences, imagine taking IB tests in Bio, Chem, Physics, English, History, and Math as a senior. Now spread that out over 3-4 years with AP tests, what do you think is going to end up being preferred?

IB has very little value in the US.

AP is far superior for American students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I support eliminating AP in FCPS. When a class is built around one national exam in May, the whole year bends toward that one and only finish line. Teachers feel the clock, units get rushed, and kids learn to chase coverage instead of wrestling with ideas. You get fewer long labs and no extended writing projects because those take time. That’s not a knock on our teachers, its just what the AP pacing guide demands. If FCPS were to ditch the AP exam treadmill, we can slow down and ask students to produce REAL work like papers, data analyses, product design and performances. This would allow students to actually learn how to think vs just learning how to just recall under a stopwatch.

Also, the research on AP for college prep is pretty dim. High scores do not correlate with better outcomes because those students never really learned the material. Simply sitting in an AP seat doesn’t move the needle much. FCPS can build equally rigorous advanced courses that are writing and analysis heavy, with capstones and move away from just enriching the College Board.

Disagree completely with this assessment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I support eliminating AP in FCPS. When a class is built around one national exam in May, the whole year bends toward that one and only finish line. Teachers feel the clock, units get rushed, and kids learn to chase coverage instead of wrestling with ideas. You get fewer long labs and no extended writing projects because those take time. That’s not a knock on our teachers, its just what the AP pacing guide demands. If FCPS were to ditch the AP exam treadmill, we can slow down and ask students to produce REAL work like papers, data analyses, product design and performances. This would allow students to actually learn how to think vs just learning how to just recall under a stopwatch.

Also, the research on AP for college prep is pretty dim. High scores do not correlate with better outcomes because those students never really learned the material. Simply sitting in an AP seat doesn’t move the needle much. FCPS can build equally rigorous advanced courses that are writing and analysis heavy, with capstones and move away from just enriching the College Board.

If students were not learning the material, colleges would not be granting credit.

When colleges are $40,000/year for the "cheap" schools and almost $100 000/year for the expensive schools, FCPS needs to stick with the program that gives grads the best outcome on receiving college credit, which is far and away AP.

There is no comparison. Paying money for any program like IB or whatever this Cambridge program is, is a complete waste of taxpayer money. The school board would be more fiscally responsible if they were sitting on the steps of gatehouse lighting cash on fire to roast marshmallows, than switching from AP to some European program that does not have the portability across the US and outcome in college credits that AB provides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I support eliminating AP in FCPS. When a class is built around one national exam in May, the whole year bends toward that one and only finish line. Teachers feel the clock, units get rushed, and kids learn to chase coverage instead of wrestling with ideas. You get fewer long labs and no extended writing projects because those take time. That’s not a knock on our teachers, its just what the AP pacing guide demands. If FCPS were to ditch the AP exam treadmill, we can slow down and ask students to produce REAL work like papers, data analyses, product design and performances. This would allow students to actually learn how to think vs just learning how to just recall under a stopwatch.

Also, the research on AP for college prep is pretty dim. High scores do not correlate with better outcomes because those students never really learned the material. Simply sitting in an AP seat doesn’t move the needle much. FCPS can build equally rigorous advanced courses that are writing and analysis heavy, with capstones and move away from just enriching the College Board.

Private schools can do this in some cases. FCPS can’t. IB has generally been a resounding failure in FCPS and eliminating AP would be a race to the bottom. Students can learn valuable skills and information in AP courses while still preparing for AP exams. And the curriculum Lady tossed out is also geared towards exams, just different ones (A-levels).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I support eliminating AP in FCPS. When a class is built around one national exam in May, the whole year bends toward that one and only finish line. Teachers feel the clock, units get rushed, and kids learn to chase coverage instead of wrestling with ideas. You get fewer long labs and no extended writing projects because those take time. That’s not a knock on our teachers, its just what the AP pacing guide demands. If FCPS were to ditch the AP exam treadmill, we can slow down and ask students to produce REAL work like papers, data analyses, product design and performances. This would allow students to actually learn how to think vs just learning how to just recall under a stopwatch.

Also, the research on AP for college prep is pretty dim. High scores do not correlate with better outcomes because those students never really learned the material. Simply sitting in an AP seat doesn’t move the needle much. FCPS can build equally rigorous advanced courses that are writing and analysis heavy, with capstones and move away from just enriching the College Board.

If students were not learning the material, colleges would not be granting credit.

When colleges are $40,000/year for the "cheap" schools and almost $100 000/year for the expensive schools, FCPS needs to stick with the program that gives grads the best outcome on receiving college credit, which is far and away AP.

There is no comparison. Paying money for any program like IB or whatever this Cambridge program is, is a complete waste of taxpayer money. The school board would be more fiscally responsible if they were sitting on the steps of gatehouse lighting cash on fire to roast marshmallows, than switching from AP to some European program that does not have the portability across the US and outcome in college credits that AB provides.

+1000.

[Anonymous]

There must be a mistake. During her campaign for School Board, less than two years ago, Lady promised to:
“Support and encourage students to take advanced coursework (AP, DE, Honors) and ensure high expectations for all students.”

https://www.robynlady.com/issues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I support eliminating AP in FCPS. When a class is built around one national exam in May, the whole year bends toward that one and only finish line. Teachers feel the clock, units get rushed, and kids learn to chase coverage instead of wrestling with ideas. You get fewer long labs and no extended writing projects because those take time. That’s not a knock on our teachers, its just what the AP pacing guide demands. If FCPS were to ditch the AP exam treadmill, we can slow down and ask students to produce REAL work like papers, data analyses, product design and performances. This would allow students to actually learn how to think vs just learning how to just recall under a stopwatch.

Also, the research on AP for college prep is pretty dim. High scores do not correlate with better outcomes because those students never really learned the material. Simply sitting in an AP seat doesn’t move the needle much. FCPS can build equally rigorous advanced courses that are writing and analysis heavy, with capstones and move away from just enriching the College Board.

If students were not learning the material, colleges would not be granting credit.

When colleges are $40,000/year for the "cheap" schools and almost $100 000/year for the expensive schools, FCPS needs to stick with the program that gives grads the best outcome on receiving college credit, which is far and away AP.

There is no comparison. Paying money for any program like IB or whatever this Cambridge program is, is a complete waste of taxpayer money. The school board would be more fiscally responsible if they were sitting on the steps of gatehouse lighting cash on fire to roast marshmallows, than switching from AP to some European program that does not have the portability across the US and outcome in college credits that AB provides.

Actually the best program for college credit is dual enrollment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard from a School Board member, and the competition is fierce.

Yep. Sounds like she needs to go. And I am very Euro-centric, being European But AP is here to stay.