Rankings factors which are irrelevant to undergraduate experience

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Name a single university that doesn’t have small seminar courses for upper division courses in the humanities. Name a single one.

Humanities students don’t need to worry about student faculty ratios.

There are actually schools that provide these classes for entering humanities students. You can argue over the benefit, but there are schools where students don’t have to wait until upper division.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Name a single university that doesn’t have small seminar courses for upper division courses in the humanities. Name a single one.

Humanities students don’t need to worry about student faculty ratios.

There are actually schools that provide these classes for entering humanities students. You can argue over the benefit, but there are schools where students don’t have to wait until upper division.

It’s even worse when humanities students with genuine interest in their field need to be stuck in the same room with 150 STEM drones who are taking the intro classes to fulfill gen ed requirements….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

I never had a grad student teach a class…they ran recitations, but were never the professor for the class (nor even ran a single class).

My kid at an Ivy has also never had a grad student teach a class.

I find this difficult to believe.

Recitations or discussion sections, or whatever you want to call them: they are, say, 1x a week, and the large class with a real prof is 2x a week.

A smaller college or university: class with prof. 3x a week.

This means your little grad student is teaching 1/3 of these time.

Glad you understand.

Nobody cares if a TA runs a recitation which are typically just review and an opportunity for students to ask questions. The professor has office hours if there are still questions.

My kid did. He went to a large state flagship and was not getting what he needed from this model so transferred to a smaller private. No TA led discussion or recitation session at his new school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

+1
It’s a common trope that SLAC boosters love to claim is true. Neither of my kids ever experienced that at their large schools either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

With respect to these attributes, this survey-based ranking from the Princeton Review may offer you ideas for colleges to research further:

Best Colleges for Classroom Experience | The Princeton Review https://share.google/2SWiZ1VfaySVUTwUV

LOL !

The Princeton Review is worse than Niche.

Niche is actually not bad when you look at the methodology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Name a single university that doesn’t have small seminar courses for upper division courses in the humanities. Name a single one.

Humanities students don’t need to worry about student faculty ratios.

There are actually schools that provide these classes for entering humanities students. You can argue over the benefit, but there are schools where students don’t have to wait until upper division.

+1
Yes many of them do, from ivies to Vanderbilt to William and Mary and Wake Forest. Those same schools are also the most likely to have smaller stem classes, even intro, than the big publics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Name a single university that doesn’t have small seminar courses for upper division courses in the humanities. Name a single one.

Humanities students don’t need to worry about student faculty ratios.

There are actually schools that provide these classes for entering humanities students. You can argue over the benefit, but there are schools where students don’t have to wait until upper division.

+1
Yes many of them do, from ivies to Vanderbilt to William and Mary and Wake Forest. Those same schools are also the most likely to have smaller stem classes, even intro, than the big publics.

Very true, I have a STEM kid at Wake that had about 50 kids in her chemistry class freshman year, other classes were below 20 kids. Has held true every semester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

That’s been my daughter’s experience at an Ivy. Sophomore year was better than FY
for her. My experience at a SLAC was different, where first rates professors were teaching freshman English in small classes and really teaching writing in a way I had never experienced. Maybe the expectation at her school is that kids should already be good writers coming out of HS so they aren’t teaching it. I do wonder.

The name on my daughter’s degree will be worth more than my no name college degree, but I’ll take the education I got without hesitation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

That’s been my daughter’s experience at an Ivy. Sophomore year was better than FY
for her. My experience at a SLAC was different, where first rates professors were teaching freshman English in small classes and really teaching writing in a way I had never experienced. Maybe the expectation at her school is that kids should already be good writers coming out of HS so they aren’t teaching it. I do wonder.

The name on my daughter’s degree will be worth more than my no name college degree, but I’ll take the education I got without hesitation

Bullshit, name the school and the major.

[Anonymous]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/opinion/build-your-own-college-rankings.html

[Anonymous]

The one thing ChatGPT is really, really good at, since it is a Large Language Model, is teaching English composition. Feed it your garbage draft and get tons of practical advice for how you can improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

I never had a grad student teach a class…they ran recitations, but were never the professor for the class (nor even ran a single class).

My kid at an Ivy has also never had a grad student teach a class.

I find this difficult to believe.

Teaching fellows (TFs) teach part-time under the supervision of course heads (who hold formal teaching appointments) as an integral part of their training for the PhD or, in exceptional cases, for a master’s degree.

Anecdotes aren’t evidence. A quick google search from Harvard GSA.

This is on Browns website:

Division of Pre-College and Undergraduate Programs
The Division recruits graduate students, post-docs, faculty, and staff to teach in a variety of credit-bearing and non-credit, on-campus, online and site-specific academic programs and courses to pre-college and undergraduate students. These paid teaching positions provide graduate students with opportunities to design and teach their own courses, an invaluable experience as they prepare for their future work, whether in teaching or in other fields. Non-credit courses are offered in sessions between one to six weeks, in an intensive format for high school students. The full range of Brown's academic disciplines are represented among the many pre-college programs and courses offered, exposing pre-college students to the rich intellectual resources of the University. In the University's Summer and Winter Sessions, the undergraduate curriculum is extended into the summer and winter months, offering advanced graduate students a significant teaching experience and the opportunity to propose courses taught to undergraduates and, in the summer, a small number of high school students.

Great…please list all the classes where a grad student is the named professor for the class. Furthermore…provide the statistical probability that someone would take 5 classes where a grad student was the named professor for a course.

Oh this is awesome! You saw evidence that directly contradicted what you said and now are moving the goal post. No stick to your damn argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Name a single university that doesn’t have small seminar courses for upper division courses in the humanities. Name a single one.

Humanities students don’t need to worry about student faculty ratios.

Junior tutorials at Harvard in many departments (e.g. anthropology, classics, I’m not sure but I think also history and literature; sociology and others as well) are taught by PhD students. This is a core part of study in the major, in many departments including supervision of the junior essay. I find it scandalous that grad students teach these classes. I studied humanities at a different HYP, and upper level seminars in humanities majors were small and taught by professors, though in larger departments it could be hard to get into your first choice seminar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

Look at USNWR from 2020-2023. The schools haven’t changed and that when USNWR was ranking on the factors you described.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

I never had a grad student teach a class…they ran recitations, but were never the professor for the class (nor even ran a single class).

My kid at an Ivy has also never had a grad student teach a class.

I find this difficult to believe.

Teaching fellows (TFs) teach part-time under the supervision of course heads (who hold formal teaching appointments) as an integral part of their training for the PhD or, in exceptional cases, for a master’s degree.

Anecdotes aren’t evidence. A quick google search from Harvard GSA.

This is on Browns website:

Division of Pre-College and Undergraduate Programs
The Division recruits graduate students, post-docs, faculty, and staff to teach in a variety of credit-bearing and non-credit, on-campus, online and site-specific academic programs and courses to pre-college and undergraduate students. These paid teaching positions provide graduate students with opportunities to design and teach their own courses, an invaluable experience as they prepare for their future work, whether in teaching or in other fields. Non-credit courses are offered in sessions between one to six weeks, in an intensive format for high school students. The full range of Brown's academic disciplines are represented among the many pre-college programs and courses offered, exposing pre-college students to the rich intellectual resources of the University. In the University's Summer and Winter Sessions, the undergraduate curriculum is extended into the summer and winter months, offering advanced graduate students a significant teaching experience and the opportunity to propose courses taught to undergraduates and, in the summer, a small number of high school students.

Great…please list all the classes where a grad student is the named professor for the class. Furthermore…provide the statistical probability that someone would take 5 classes where a grad student was the named professor for a course.

Oh this is awesome! You saw evidence that directly contradicted what you said and now are moving the goal post. No stick to your damn argument.

Actually, you provided general nonsense about how it’s possible for it to happen.

Now, please list all the classes where a grad student is the named professor for the class. You are the one claiming there are all these Ivy League classes that are actually taught by grad students. So, just name the actual class.