Rankings factors which are irrelevant to undergraduate experience

[Anonymous]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/opinion/build-your-own-college-rankings.html

Make your own

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

[Anonymous]

DD also goes to a top large public (Michigan) and yes, most of his freshman classes were 100+, some with 200+.

DS goes to a small private where his avg class in his freshman year was 16.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

With respect to these attributes, this survey-based ranking from the Princeton Review may offer you ideas for colleges to research further:

Best Colleges for Classroom Experience | The Princeton Review https://share.google/2SWiZ1VfaySVUTwUV

LOL !

The Princeton Review is worse than Niche.

The Princeton Review has been honing its survey methods for decades and uses verified respondents. I don't know much about Niche.

In any case, your "contribution" to the topic appears to be that you don't like someone else's actual contribution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

[Anonymous]

Several UK rankings separately rank specific Schools (Departments) of the university and the ranking is specific to the undergraduate degree. One of the guides this year happened to name StA CS as 4th in the UK among undergrad programs, for example. I find this very helpful. YMMV.

Such detail is more helpful to students who have a specific degree in mind when applying. Many US students apply to liberal arts colleges within a university (and have no specific degree in mind when applying).

[Anonymous]

Start with a narrowed list. Then take it school-by-school. Try posting questions on DCUM (and elsewhere) specifically and narrowly asking people to describe the “student experience at School X” in the past 5 years based on their DC’s point of view. That may raise themes or concerns to follow up on. It may also surface people who could answer more specific follow up questions (“Did your DC have any on-line classes at University of X, post-Covid?” “Were any of their courses taught by Grad Students? If so, what department and what did they think about the experience?”

It’s not scientific, of course. These are just individual accounts/observations. But I’ve found it helpful in identifying details to then follow up on in other ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

What years were you there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

I never had a grad student teach a class…they ran recitations, but were never the professor for the class (nor even ran a single class).

My kid at an Ivy has also never had a grad student teach a class.

I find this difficult to believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

I never had a grad student teach a class…they ran recitations, but were never the professor for the class (nor even ran a single class).

My kid at an Ivy has also never had a grad student teach a class.

I find this difficult to believe.

Teaching fellows (TFs) teach part-time under the supervision of course heads (who hold formal teaching appointments) as an integral part of their training for the PhD or, in exceptional cases, for a master’s degree.

Anecdotes aren’t evidence. A quick google search from Harvard GSA.

This is on Browns website:

Division of Pre-College and Undergraduate Programs
The Division recruits graduate students, post-docs, faculty, and staff to teach in a variety of credit-bearing and non-credit, on-campus, online and site-specific academic programs and courses to pre-college and undergraduate students. These paid teaching positions provide graduate students with opportunities to design and teach their own courses, an invaluable experience as they prepare for their future work, whether in teaching or in other fields. Non-credit courses are offered in sessions between one to six weeks, in an intensive format for high school students. The full range of Brown's academic disciplines are represented among the many pre-college programs and courses offered, exposing pre-college students to the rich intellectual resources of the University. In the University's Summer and Winter Sessions, the undergraduate curriculum is extended into the summer and winter months, offering advanced graduate students a significant teaching experience and the opportunity to propose courses taught to undergraduates and, in the summer, a small number of high school students.

[Anonymous]

Name a single university that doesn’t have small seminar courses for upper division courses in the humanities. Name a single one.

Humanities students don’t need to worry about student faculty ratios.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

I never had a grad student teach a class…they ran recitations, but were never the professor for the class (nor even ran a single class).

My kid at an Ivy has also never had a grad student teach a class.

I find this difficult to believe.

Recitations or discussion sections, or whatever you want to call them: they are, say, 1x a week, and the large class with a real prof is 2x a week.

A smaller college or university: class with prof. 3x a week.

This means your little grad student is teaching 1/3 of these time.

Glad you understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Name a single university that doesn’t have small seminar courses for upper division courses in the humanities. Name a single one.

Humanities students don’t need to worry about student faculty ratios.

FYI, I taught those as a grad student at a large public university. I put a lot of effort into them but probably didn't teach them as well as the professors at the smaller college I attended for undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

I never had a grad student teach a class…they ran recitations, but were never the professor for the class (nor even ran a single class).

My kid at an Ivy has also never had a grad student teach a class.

I find this difficult to believe.

Recitations or discussion sections, or whatever you want to call them: they are, say, 1x a week, and the large class with a real prof is 2x a week.

A smaller college or university: class with prof. 3x a week.

This means your little grad student is teaching 1/3 of these time.

Glad you understand.

Nobody cares if a TA runs a recitation which are typically just review and an opportunity for students to ask questions. The professor has office hours if there are still questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the factors that go into college rankings seem irrelevant to the undergrad experience, particularly for non-STEM. Factors like research tier status, athletics conferences, and graduate programs seem less important than things like student to professor ratio, likelihood that a class will be on line, likelihood that grad student will teach a class, etc.

Where can I go to find rankings that disaggregate the less relevant factors?

USNWR has separate rankings for best undergraduate teaching. For student to professor ration and class size, I would do it by hand, so to speak, and go to a each school's Common Data Set. I think that it is Section I for class sizes and C6 for student/faculty ratio. Class size is done by quintile. I did this last year, informative. As an aside, Catholic schools are striking for the small sizes of their classes.

For graduate students teaching classes, you will probably have to do the work of looking through the school's program and course catalog materials for the kid's majors of interest, and/or contact the program. Perhaps, look for threads on Reddit. Generally, large publics are reportedly known for more for this than privates (UMich, UIUC, UNC maybe Pitt, too). Maybe, others have more insight into more readily available sources.

Probably the same with online.

My DC goes to a large public and has never had a grad student teach a class. I think the OP has an agenda here.
NP

At my Ivy League school, 5 of my classes (out of 32 total) were taught by grad students. This included math classes through linear algebra.

I never had a grad student teach a class…they ran recitations, but were never the professor for the class (nor even ran a single class).

My kid at an Ivy has also never had a grad student teach a class.

I find this difficult to believe.

Teaching fellows (TFs) teach part-time under the supervision of course heads (who hold formal teaching appointments) as an integral part of their training for the PhD or, in exceptional cases, for a master’s degree.

Anecdotes aren’t evidence. A quick google search from Harvard GSA.

This is on Browns website:

Division of Pre-College and Undergraduate Programs
The Division recruits graduate students, post-docs, faculty, and staff to teach in a variety of credit-bearing and non-credit, on-campus, online and site-specific academic programs and courses to pre-college and undergraduate students. These paid teaching positions provide graduate students with opportunities to design and teach their own courses, an invaluable experience as they prepare for their future work, whether in teaching or in other fields. Non-credit courses are offered in sessions between one to six weeks, in an intensive format for high school students. The full range of Brown's academic disciplines are represented among the many pre-college programs and courses offered, exposing pre-college students to the rich intellectual resources of the University. In the University's Summer and Winter Sessions, the undergraduate curriculum is extended into the summer and winter months, offering advanced graduate students a significant teaching experience and the opportunity to propose courses taught to undergraduates and, in the summer, a small number of high school students.

Great…please list all the classes where a grad student is the named professor for the class. Furthermore…provide the statistical probability that someone would take 5 classes where a grad student was the named professor for a course.