Intellectual peers

[Anonymous]

I was on faculty at one of those “non-selective “ schools. I can confirm that there was nothing intellectually stimulating about its undergraduate students. It was just sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids can also be pushed by their peers in honors programs at less selective schools. I don’t understand this intellectual snobbery. Look at the stats for incoming first years for UGA’s honors- average SAT above 1500. Higher than many SLAC’s (which are rest optional)

Another dim little soul with a perverse dislike for SLACs which they know nothing about.

[Anonymous]

If you want intellectual, go Reed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids can also be pushed by their peers in honors programs at less selective schools. I don’t understand this intellectual snobbery. Look at the stats for incoming first years for UGA’s honors- average SAT above 1500. Higher than many SLAC’s (which are rest optional)

I don't know of any honors programs wherein all of a students classes are restricted to those in the honors college, which is what you would need to mimic the environment of a top university with an average SAT over 1500.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people on this forum really think their snowflakes can’t be intellectually stimulated at “non-selective” schools??

First of all - there will be plenty of smart kids basically anywhere and people can find their tribe. Second of all - what about being able to function in the real world, in the workplace where people have all different strengths and skills. Sometimes an average student can be brilliant socially or politically or just “get” geospatial thinking. It would be a sad world if only good test takers prevailed across the board.

I hope my kid finds the school that meets their needs academically, socially and culturally and I don’t need artificial selectivity metrics to tell me what that is.

For some, they were not challenged much by their high school, even great privates with median SAT of 1400 do not challenge the very top kids as much as a college that has a median SAT (pre-TO) of 1500. Super-bright always >99%ile their whole lives type kids often need a larger cohort of similar peers to reach their full potential. T15/ivy types/williams/et al have challenging coursework above and beyond what T75 type schools can offer because they have a large cohort of students who can move at a faster pace rather than less than 5% who can. Ask professors who have worked at various levels of college: they will tell you there are significant differences. We have asked our family:
One studied through phD at a T10, then taught post doc at T20, saw no significant difference. Then taught at various T60-100 places and it was stark: lack of motivation, even the smart kids were bored, they had to have a certain % pass so they watered it down. The other ran an engineering lab as a professor at a T50 public then moved it all to an HYPSM. They have the same descriptions: had to slow the pace at the lesser school, were surprised at the high volume of intensely academic students at the top place they moved to.
Both professors have noted the pressure among undergrads is much higher at the top, warning us to consider whether ours would be ok emotionally not being the top kid in almost everything as they had been for all of their schooling. Intellectual stimulation from the brightest peers comes with increased motivation and growth, but also increased pressure. You have to take the good with the bad if you choose an ivy/elite.

I wouldn’t put Williams at this level. A lot of mediocre athletes and some DEI kids are not the type of intellectual that needs MIT, CMU, etc. Williams is no different academically than Amherst, Swarthmore, or Pomona.

SLAC hater emerges. Your kid will get a better education at Williams than at any T10 for subjects outside of Engineering and CS. Actually, your kid will get a better undergraduate education at any of the 8 SLACs who have an median SAT score of 1500 or higher than at any of the T10, their model is better and the cohort quality is just as strong.

This just isn’t true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was on faculty at one of those “non-selective “ schools. I can confirm that there was nothing intellectually stimulating about its undergraduate students. It was just sad.

sigh that is the concern for sure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can also be pushed by their peers in honors programs at less selective schools. I don’t understand this intellectual snobbery. Look at the stats for incoming first years for UGA’s honors- average SAT above 1500. Higher than many SLAC’s (which are rest optional)

I don't know of any honors programs wherein all of a students classes are restricted to those in the honors college, which is what you would need to mimic the environment of a top university with an average SAT over 1500.

bingo, not the same

[Anonymous]

So many people have book sense but no common sense. I plan to send my kid to a school that has people from all walks of life - one that mimics how the real-world workplace is.

[Anonymous]

I generally say that the education a student gets depends much more on the effort exerted than the school, but that's within a given range: Princeton may be a better school than Vanderbilt, but the education available at the two are quite similar. On the other hand, UPitt is a fine school, but a very smart, intellectually driven student will find it harder to learn as much there as at Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many people have book sense but no common sense. I plan to send my kid to a school that has people from all walks of life - one that mimics how the real-world workplace is.

Different workplaces have different mix of people. Did your common sense tell you that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many people have book sense but no common sense. I plan to send my kid to a school that has people from all walks of life - one that mimics how the real-world workplace is.

Different workplaces have different mix of people. Did your common sense tell you that?

The Ivy grads in my workplaces were no smarter or better performing than state school grads. They just thought they were. Often, they lacked the “street smarts” that other employees had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many people have book sense but no common sense. I plan to send my kid to a school that has people from all walks of life - one that mimics how the real-world workplace is.

Different workplaces have different mix of people. Did your common sense tell you that?

The Ivy grads in my workplaces were no smarter or better performing than state school grads. They just thought they were. Often, they lacked the “street smarts” that other employees had.

Do you work at McDonald?

[Anonymous]

I love when people throw out they work with “dumb” Ivy grads. They have the best financial aid, many recipients have been leading their families since childhood in a myriad of ways. Sure, no “street smarts”…given current acceptance rates, no one is getting in that isn’t extremely smart and remarkable in some way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I generally say that the education a student gets depends much more on the effort exerted than the school, but that's within a given range: Princeton may be a better school than Vanderbilt, but the education available at the two are quite similar. On the other hand, UPitt is a fine school, but a very smart, intellectually driven student will find it harder to learn as much there as at Princeton.

this. dcum will deny it but it is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I generally say that the education a student gets depends much more on the effort exerted than the school, but that's within a given range: Princeton may be a better school than Vanderbilt, but the education available at the two are quite similar. On the other hand, UPitt is a fine school, but a very smart, intellectually driven student will find it harder to learn as much there as at Princeton.

Define "learn". Learning is individual and subjective. College is a multi-year living experience that goes beyond academics. You have no real way to measure this. It's an article of faith for you.