MoCo Council Vote Today

[Anonymous]

This is going to backfire spectacularly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many NIMBYs here concerned about "affordable" housing, yet not a single one is talking about raising taxes to pay for these subsidized units. Because yes, they need taxes to subsidize them, because nothing is free.

It's almost as if "affordable" is a fake argument, used to stop any housing construction.

Hmmmm, but why would people be so disingenuous? Hmmmm.

We’ve spent all our subsidy money on market rate housing and on bailing out land speculators, at Friedson’s urging, so unfortunately we don’t have the money to subsidize enough affordable housing. Maybe your heroes the developers will take lower profits.

Please look up the typical profit margin of these "evil developers" and get back to me.

Oh, wait, you won't, because they are in line with most industries because they are not monopolies and there is abundant competition in the space.

Please tell me how much "profit" a homeowner in their 60s is sitting on due to land appreciation? Millions. And you think "developers" are the enemy.

Equity Residential: 63.2 percent gross margin
Avalon Bay: 63.8 percent gross margin
American Assets Trust: 63.4 percent gross margin

Amazon: 50.55 percent gross margin
Apple: 46.33 percent gross margin
Safeway: 27.4 percent gross margin
Kroger: 23 percent gross margin

See how the other companies providing essential goods have lower margins (by more than half?)

Very few homeowners are sitting on millions of dollars of appreciation in land value alone. When you annualize their appreciation, it’s generally in single digits, just a fraction of the profits that developers are making every year.

Want to keep playing?

Sorry, you think 15% higher profit margin than Amazon or some tech companies is .... evidence of some massive corrupt cabal or undue benefit?

AVB brought in 1.8B in profit last year. Apple... 186B.

If you think comparing those companies is helping your argument, I can't take you seriously.

People here would really benefit from taking Econ 101.

lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many NIMBYs here concerned about "affordable" housing, yet not a single one is talking about raising taxes to pay for these subsidized units. Because yes, they need taxes to subsidize them, because nothing is free.

It's almost as if "affordable" is a fake argument, used to stop any housing construction.

Hmmmm, but why would people be so disingenuous? Hmmmm.

We’ve spent all our subsidy money on market rate housing and on bailing out land speculators, at Friedson’s urging, so unfortunately we don’t have the money to subsidize enough affordable housing. Maybe your heroes the developers will take lower profits.

Please look up the typical profit margin of these "evil developers" and get back to me.

Oh, wait, you won't, because they are in line with most industries because they are not monopolies and there is abundant competition in the space.

Please tell me how much "profit" a homeowner in their 60s is sitting on due to land appreciation? Millions. And you think "developers" are the enemy.

Equity Residential: 63.2 percent gross margin
Avalon Bay: 63.8 percent gross margin
American Assets Trust: 63.4 percent gross margin

Amazon: 50.55 percent gross margin
Apple: 46.33 percent gross margin
Safeway: 27.4 percent gross margin
Kroger: 23 percent gross margin

See how the other companies providing essential goods have lower margins (by more than half?)

Very few homeowners are sitting on millions of dollars of appreciation in land value alone. When you annualize their appreciation, it’s generally in single digits, just a fraction of the profits that developers are making every year.

Want to keep playing?

So much wrong in so little time. Econ lesson time!

You understand profit margins are a signal, right? A signal that demand for something far outstrips supply. Perhaps, maybe, more of that thing would reduce demand and future profits? Just like any other industry?

The idea that "huge mean profits for evil jerk company" is some reason to *not* make what they are doing easier for others to do (building housing) is completely backwards. Hint: part of the reason why they make money is because what they are doing is hard, because of zoning and NIMBYs like you.

Econ lesson over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many NIMBYs here concerned about "affordable" housing, yet not a single one is talking about raising taxes to pay for these subsidized units. Because yes, they need taxes to subsidize them, because nothing is free.

It's almost as if "affordable" is a fake argument, used to stop any housing construction.

Hmmmm, but why would people be so disingenuous? Hmmmm.

We’ve spent all our subsidy money on market rate housing and on bailing out land speculators, at Friedson’s urging, so unfortunately we don’t have the money to subsidize enough affordable housing. Maybe your heroes the developers will take lower profits.

Please look up the typical profit margin of these "evil developers" and get back to me.

Oh, wait, you won't, because they are in line with most industries because they are not monopolies and there is abundant competition in the space.

Please tell me how much "profit" a homeowner in their 60s is sitting on due to land appreciation? Millions. And you think "developers" are the enemy.

Equity Residential: 63.2 percent gross margin
Avalon Bay: 63.8 percent gross margin
American Assets Trust: 63.4 percent gross margin

Amazon: 50.55 percent gross margin
Apple: 46.33 percent gross margin
Safeway: 27.4 percent gross margin
Kroger: 23 percent gross margin

See how the other companies providing essential goods have lower margins (by more than half?)

Very few homeowners are sitting on millions of dollars of appreciation in land value alone. When you annualize their appreciation, it’s generally in single digits, just a fraction of the profits that developers are making every year.

Want to keep playing?

Sorry, you think 15% higher profit margin than Amazon or some tech companies is .... evidence of some massive corrupt cabal or undue benefit?

AVB brought in 1.8B in profit last year. Apple... 186B.

If you think comparing those companies is helping your argument, I can't take you seriously.

People here would really benefit from taking Econ 101.

lol.

Sorry you’re bad at math. A 63.8 percent gross margin is actually 26.2 percent higher than a 50.55 percent gross margin. And your original post said that we should look at profit margin, which is measured as a percentage, not profit, which is expressed as a dollar value.

You would benefit from Econ 101 (and stats 101 too!) more than most here. Look up how the law of supply and demand applies to essential goods and then tell us what Adam Smith said most influences rents. Hint: It wasn’t zoning.

You don’t seem to know much about business or economics but you insist that your housing approach is the only one and you mock people who disagree with you (much to my entertainment).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many NIMBYs here concerned about "affordable" housing, yet not a single one is talking about raising taxes to pay for these subsidized units. Because yes, they need taxes to subsidize them, because nothing is free.

It's almost as if "affordable" is a fake argument, used to stop any housing construction.

Hmmmm, but why would people be so disingenuous? Hmmmm.

We’ve spent all our subsidy money on market rate housing and on bailing out land speculators, at Friedson’s urging, so unfortunately we don’t have the money to subsidize enough affordable housing. Maybe your heroes the developers will take lower profits.

Please look up the typical profit margin of these "evil developers" and get back to me.

Oh, wait, you won't, because they are in line with most industries because they are not monopolies and there is abundant competition in the space.

Please tell me how much "profit" a homeowner in their 60s is sitting on due to land appreciation? Millions. And you think "developers" are the enemy.

Equity Residential: 63.2 percent gross margin
Avalon Bay: 63.8 percent gross margin
American Assets Trust: 63.4 percent gross margin

Amazon: 50.55 percent gross margin
Apple: 46.33 percent gross margin
Safeway: 27.4 percent gross margin
Kroger: 23 percent gross margin

See how the other companies providing essential goods have lower margins (by more than half?)

Very few homeowners are sitting on millions of dollars of appreciation in land value alone. When you annualize their appreciation, it’s generally in single digits, just a fraction of the profits that developers are making every year.

Want to keep playing?

So much wrong in so little time. Econ lesson time!

You understand profit margins are a signal, right? A signal that demand for something far outstrips supply. Perhaps, maybe, more of that thing would reduce demand and future profits? Just like any other industry?

The idea that "huge mean profits for evil jerk company" is some reason to *not* make what they are doing easier for others to do (building housing) is completely backwards. Hint: part of the reason why they make money is because what they are doing is hard, because of zoning and NIMBYs like you.

Econ lesson over.

The OP asked for profit margin. Your complaint about that metric is with the OP, one of your fellow YIMBYs, who like you, has a very shallow grasp on economics.

Excessive profits are broadly a sign of market dysfunction. You jump right to zoning and NIMBYs as the sources of market dysfunction. The literature is mixed on this, with more recent studies suggesting that zoning is not driving market dysfunction. You should also consider that collusion, which several firms have admitted, is also driving dysfunction.

[Anonymous]

They passed it.

This link is relaying from the Offices of Councilmembers Andrew Friedson and Natali Fani-González, so it's PR spin and not an actual article.

https://mocofeed.com/council-approves-zoning-measure-to-increase-housing-options-to-address-affordability-crisis-mocofeed/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=council-approves-zoning-measure-to-increase-housing-options-to-address-affordability-crisis-mocofeed

Someone run against Fani-Gonzalez, please. You got my vote.

[Anonymous]

Why did Katz vote against it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why did Katz vote against it?

Katz voted against it because, by the very structure of the workforce housing provisions in the bill, the bill can’t achieve its stated aims of giving teachers, firefighters, and nurses housing options that they can afford. The “workforce” housing units will be too expensive for them to afford. Katz was right in pointing out that the math doesn’t math. The eight members who voted for the bill just played pretend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thing is going to pass, isn't it?

Bring on the lawsuits!

The BS about passing this to make the county more affordable for firefighters is beyond risible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mekgNARX-gg

Yeah. Friedson's "compromise" is not between his aims and those of current residents in areas he and Fani-González target. There's been almost nothing to address those concerns.

His interests are those of developers who fund his campaign and his hoped-for appeal to county residents in areas less well off for county-wide or state/federal office, where he'll wave his hands trying to claim he's done something for them when the effects of what he's proposed are not likely to help many outside of those lining his pockets.

It's his compromise versus the larger Thrive 2050 and AHS initiatives. With all the heavy opposition in the fall, he needed to pare down the scope to divide and conquer -- screwing over fewer at a time to facilitate passage with less notice. He readily affirms that more is coming.

And it's his compromise with the less adventuresome councilmembers who all support increased densities in existing neighborhoods, anyway, but don't want to have to take too much blowback. Jawondo and Sayles fundamentally only question the lack of focus on development being truly affordable, with Jawondo's opposition in other areas being meant to grandstand to Friedson's detriment in their primary battle for county executive.

Ah yes, those evil developers doing evil things like ... building housing for families.

You people are silly.

The need is for affordable housing. Not to build 900k town homes, and just pack in people. There are plenty of housing options in the 700k plus range.

The developers are not concerned with the needs of actual middle class families.

Moreover, this bill targets middle and working class neighborhoods that have relatively affordable homes today and will totally undermine these areas. They’re not focused on affordable housing. Rather they prey on working class / middle class neighborhoods, will tear down a cape cod that sells for $450k and then build a multiplex with $750k units, no parking, and they don’t have to pay impact taxes for 20 years (yes, literally 20 years) so infrastructure and schools will suffer.

It’s disgusting. I hope Fani Gonzalez gets the backlash she deserves. She says one thing to her constituents and then votes against them. Vote her out.

BINGO. And watch as the truly affluent move away … while MD bleeds money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thing is going to pass, isn't it?

Bring on the lawsuits!

The BS about passing this to make the county more affordable for firefighters is beyond risible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mekgNARX-gg

Yeah. Friedson's "compromise" is not between his aims and those of current residents in areas he and Fani-González target. There's been almost nothing to address those concerns.

His interests are those of developers who fund his campaign and his hoped-for appeal to county residents in areas less well off for county-wide or state/federal office, where he'll wave his hands trying to claim he's done something for them when the effects of what he's proposed are not likely to help many outside of those lining his pockets.

It's his compromise versus the larger Thrive 2050 and AHS initiatives. With all the heavy opposition in the fall, he needed to pare down the scope to divide and conquer -- screwing over fewer at a time to facilitate passage with less notice. He readily affirms that more is coming.

And it's his compromise with the less adventuresome councilmembers who all support increased densities in existing neighborhoods, anyway, but don't want to have to take too much blowback. Jawondo and Sayles fundamentally only question the lack of focus on development being truly affordable, with Jawondo's opposition in other areas being meant to grandstand to Friedson's detriment in their primary battle for county executive.

Ah yes, those evil developers doing evil things like ... building housing for families.

You people are silly.

The need is for affordable housing. Not to build 900k town homes, and just pack in people. There are plenty of housing options in the 700k plus range.

The developers are not concerned with the needs of actual middle class families.

Moreover, this bill targets middle and working class neighborhoods that have relatively affordable homes today and will totally undermine these areas. They’re not focused on affordable housing. Rather they prey on working class / middle class neighborhoods, will tear down a cape cod that sells for $450k and then build a multiplex with $750k units, no parking, and they don’t have to pay impact taxes for 20 years (yes, literally 20 years) so infrastructure and schools will suffer.

It’s disgusting. I hope Fani Gonzalez gets the backlash she deserves. She says one thing to her constituents and then votes against them. Vote her out.

BINGO. And watch as the truly affluent move away … while MD bleeds money.

So rich shouldn't pay taxes...got it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thing is going to pass, isn't it?

Bring on the lawsuits!

The BS about passing this to make the county more affordable for firefighters is beyond risible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mekgNARX-gg

Yeah. Friedson's "compromise" is not between his aims and those of current residents in areas he and Fani-González target. There's been almost nothing to address those concerns.

His interests are those of developers who fund his campaign and his hoped-for appeal to county residents in areas less well off for county-wide or state/federal office, where he'll wave his hands trying to claim he's done something for them when the effects of what he's proposed are not likely to help many outside of those lining his pockets.

It's his compromise versus the larger Thrive 2050 and AHS initiatives. With all the heavy opposition in the fall, he needed to pare down the scope to divide and conquer -- screwing over fewer at a time to facilitate passage with less notice. He readily affirms that more is coming.

And it's his compromise with the less adventuresome councilmembers who all support increased densities in existing neighborhoods, anyway, but don't want to have to take too much blowback. Jawondo and Sayles fundamentally only question the lack of focus on development being truly affordable, with Jawondo's opposition in other areas being meant to grandstand to Friedson's detriment in their primary battle for county executive.

Ah yes, those evil developers doing evil things like ... building housing for families.

You people are silly.

The need is for affordable housing. Not to build 900k town homes, and just pack in people. There are plenty of housing options in the 700k plus range.

The developers are not concerned with the needs of actual middle class families.

Moreover, this bill targets middle and working class neighborhoods that have relatively affordable homes today and will totally undermine these areas. They’re not focused on affordable housing. Rather they prey on working class / middle class neighborhoods, will tear down a cape cod that sells for $450k and then build a multiplex with $750k units, no parking, and they don’t have to pay impact taxes for 20 years (yes, literally 20 years) so infrastructure and schools will suffer.

It’s disgusting. I hope Fani Gonzalez gets the backlash she deserves. She says one thing to her constituents and then votes against them. Vote her out.

BINGO. And watch as the truly affluent move away … while MD bleeds money.

So rich shouldn't pay taxes...got it!

How was that implied?

[Anonymous]

Start the land speculation now, I guess.

Lmao, what a mess. I’d vote for a doorknob before I’d vote for Friedson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will probably pass today. Even if you agree with the bill, I don’t see how anyone could possibly be happy with how sloppy it all is. Friedson is supposed to be the competent council member but it’s the day of the vote and where his ZTA applies is still not clear, and we don’t know what lot consolidation will be allowed because that is in another separate bill that will be introduced today. Not impressed.

They get to back-door more of what they want bia redefinituon, whether that's doing away with certain restrictions with the SRA or exempting certain highly favored roadways with reclassification. Finest of learning how to pack the pork and make the sausage from those at the federal level.

Friedson took the hit to be the front-man. The others are just as complicit in the incompetence. Any of them could have steered this thing towards more responsible legislation, but that ain't happenin'.

Why is MOCO so shady about everything? I’ve lived all over country and this is the worst run.

[Anonymous]

Mink, Jawando, Katz.

Those were the members that voted against. Thank them for their efforts, at least. Replace the rest.

This was clearly an unpopular effort and was not supported by the community, and they passed it anyway.

Can we recall any of them?

[Anonymous]

This makes it pretty easy for anyone running against Friedson. Just keep pointing back to this.