Are you conservatives upset that Trump is now backing Ukraine?
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
| So cmon maga - you mad? I hear lots of claims of true blue Ukrainian support but aren’t you worried you look like hypocrites? |
Anonymous
Trump demanded a minerals deal with Ukraine in exchange for military support. Zelenskyy said he would agree. Yet Trump continues to jerk Ukraine around. Yet he continues to dump massive resources into Ukraine with nothing asked in return. |
Anonymous
It looks like he forgot to include many numbers after that 1 |
Anonymous
|
Conservatives and MAGA are different.
Conservatives have always backed Ukraine. They hate Russia and Putin. They believe the US has a duty to assist Ukraine because we agreed to that years ago when they gave up their nukes. MAGA are the ones who believe Ukraine started the war and that Putin isn't that bad of a guy. |
Anonymous
|
MAGA here. I don't think it's in the West's interest to let Putin run through Ukraine. However, I also didn't approve of Biden refusing to make any overtures to Russia to attempt to stop the war. So I support Trump's attempt to end the war diplomatically and also his political realism when it became apparent that Putin was unwilling to negotiate.
Overall, I think that the Ukraine/Russia war offers an opportunity to degrade one of our primary enemies for pennies on the dollar. But morally, I do agree with Trump that we are obliged to advocate for peace, even when it fails. |
Anonymous
\ Trump wants an end to the war in Ukraine and morality has nothing to do with it. For one, if he is able to engineer a solution, it could earn him the Nobel Peace Prize (he thinks). For another, it would show that he is strong and a great "dealmaker," which is part of the image he cultivates. He started off this term by trying to bully Zelensky into peace and when that didn't work, he turned his attention to Putin. Good luck to him if he can make Putin do anything--I'm not holding my breath. The fact that he thinks he will succeed with Putin when no one else ever has just shows you how deluded he is. |
Anonymous
|
I am a conservative and I have always backed aid to Ukraine.
Why do you falsely believe conservatives are some sort of philosophic monolith? |
Anonymous
DP. Because the one thing that they all have in common is that they have voted for Trump over and over again. A true conservative would recognize that Trump is not, in fact, a real conservative. For example: *On fiscal policy, his administration has significantly increased the national deficit with tax cuts and spending, in direct opposition to conservative principles of fiscal restraint. *On trade issues, his tariffs and trade wars contrast with conservative free-market ideals favoring open trade. *On his approach to governing, his push for increased executive power and interventions, like pressuring companies or the Fed, deviates from small-government conservatism and emphasis on limited government. *On social issues, his personal conduct and rhetoric often clash with conservative values and focus on morality, fidelity to one's spouse(s), and traditional decorum for a president. Pence embodied those traditional conservative values and was turned on by conservatives/MAGA. |
Anonymous
|
I think even Trump is coming around to the fact that there is no deal to be had with Russia. And that's baffling for Trump. To his credit, he seems to think modern war - particularly among near peers - is fundamentally stupid. According to The Economist, since May 1st alone, another 31,000 Russian soldiers are dead. The total Russian casualty count at this point is more than a million men. That is insane. Plus their armor is gone. Russia has lost more than 4000 confirmed tanks at this point. They've also lost much of their air power. The old Soviet stockpiles are nearly gone. Their economy is on the edge of crisis. And it's the biggest country in the world. Why the hell do they need more land, especially since that land is now mined and won't be useable for a 100 years. And yet Russia persists with this devastating invasion.
So I think Trump has finally come around and accepted reality. There's no peace to be had until Russia is defeated in Ukraine. Hegseth clearly overstepped by not consulting the White House when he shut off some basic ammo supplies to Ukraine. Not sure if that matters. Hegseth is a useful idiot until he's not. He's just a stupid tool. But it's a good sign that the US has agreed to sell some Patriot batteries to Germany, which will pass them on to Ukraine, who desperately needs them. Kyiv has been hit very hard over the past couple of days. I think most genuine conservatives support Ukraine in their defense against Russia's invasion. The MAGA ones are low IQ, low information people who will generally support whatever Trump does. I'm pleased Trump has finally entered the real world. There is no deal with Russia. This is a zero sum conflict. |
Anonymous
| Between this and the Epstein flip, he’s basically signaling he’s down with the deep state. |
Anonymous
Conservatives are the kind of people that support the party that legalized gay marriage while banning churches. Its why MAGA took over and conservatives are an endangered species. |
Anonymous
I'm from the deep south. I have lots of conservative relatives and a quite a few MAGA as well. The conservative relatives are becoming more and more dismayed by the state of the GOP. They are all very anti-MAGA and anti-Trump. All did vote for Trump his first go around but didn't vote for him in 2020 or this past election. I believe the count was 50/50 at Thanksgiving on which republican family members voted for Harris and which abstained from voting for a presidential pick. Those who are strict party line voters abstained (mostly the older Repubs in my family) and the younger ones were more open to voting for Harris to try to keep Trump out of office. My family has always had lively, civil talks about politics at family gatherings but after Trump's first term and the birth of MAGAs in the family, we had to put a no politics rule into effect. It seems like once they become MAGA, the most hateful part of their brain gets activated and they say the most vile things. We only did the "who'd you vote for?" poll at Thanksgiving this year before the MAGA relatives arrived because we knew who they voted for and we didn't want to open the door for any political discussion with them. |
Anonymous
What you say completely dovetails with the accusation that a conservative is a democrat from x years ago. The only reason I can see why a conservative would support Ukraine is because they see them losing just a little bit more each day and they see a kindred spirit in that slow and steady defeat. |
Anonymous
| so are we finally going to put Tariffs on Russia now? Weren't they the one country he left of the list (for some *mysterious* reason)? |
Anonymous
He is not putting tariffs on Russia. He is not sending all anything weapons that can hurt Putin. This is all just a show. |