Long-term care insurance?

[Anonymous]

Better to save/invest and find a great CCRC to enter when you are still healthy (ie early 70s). Get one where you won't pay any more for "advanced care" except the extra meals per day.


Early 70s is way too early, unless you know something about your health that will impede getting in. It's an 80s and 90s vibe. That's the trick here, knowing when to go. But early 70s won't be mentally a good idea.


First, you likely won't get in in your 80s unless in absolute excellent health (hint most 80 are not that)

My parents moved into one in mid 70s, and they love it. Sure it was a mindset to downsize (and all they could afford was a 1200 sq ft apartment) but for them, we had to pay the entry fee (mid 6 figures), and they are now enjoying a huge lifestyle improvement. They have activities, main meal each day included ((more if they feel like paying or managing the $$ well) and most importantly, with me being 2.5K miles away, they have the proper care should they ever need it, without me having to do much. It will be seamless if they need more care.
and they are the the "poor people" there, most are living it up, travel still and spend on many extras.
But now my parents no longer have a house to take care of, or any worries. If something breaks, it's not my dad attempting to fix it, they just put in a request and within a few Hours it's fixed. It's a beautiful campus with tons of outdoor activities, they have their own garden area and can easily walk 2-3 miles and not leave campus.

Not true. I know someone who got into one at age 90. And it's a nice one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Better to save/invest and find a great CCRC to enter when you are still healthy (ie early 70s). Get one where you won't pay any more for "advanced care" except the extra meals per day.


Early 70s is way too early, unless you know something about your health that will impede getting in. It's an 80s and 90s vibe. That's the trick here, knowing when to go. But early 70s won't be mentally a good idea.


First, you likely won't get in in your 80s unless in absolute excellent health (hint most 80 are not that)

My parents moved into one in mid 70s, and they love it. Sure it was a mindset to downsize (and all they could afford was a 1200 sq ft apartment) but for them, we had to pay the entry fee (mid 6 figures), and they are now enjoying a huge lifestyle improvement. They have activities, main meal each day included ((more if they feel like paying or managing the $$ well) and most importantly, with me being 2.5K miles away, they have the proper care should they ever need it, without me having to do much. It will be seamless if they need more care.
and they are the the "poor people" there, most are living it up, travel still and spend on many extras.
But now my parents no longer have a house to take care of, or any worries. If something breaks, it's not my dad attempting to fix it, they just put in a request and within a few Hours it's fixed. It's a beautiful campus with tons of outdoor activities, they have their own garden area and can easily walk 2-3 miles and not leave campus.

Not true. I know someone who got into one at age 90. And it's a nice one.

Agree that planning to enter a CCRC is a better plan than LTC insurance. Timing of entry matters. You normally have to pass a physical exam to be admitted. My parents and my mother-in-law had to at their respective CCRC’s. All three entered in their 80’s and held their breath (metaphorically!) hoping they’d pass the physical. On the other hand, we have a very wealthy friend who managed to get his mother admitted to the same CCRC that my MIL is in while his mother was in her 90’s with dementia, with a very hefty admission deposit (and probably also a hefty donation.). So that another path for some lucky folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Better to save/invest and find a great CCRC to enter when you are still healthy (ie early 70s). Get one where you won't pay any more for "advanced care" except the extra meals per day.


Early 70s is way too early, unless you know something about your health that will impede getting in. It's an 80s and 90s vibe. That's the trick here, knowing when to go. But early 70s won't be mentally a good idea.


First, you likely won't get in in your 80s unless in absolute excellent health (hint most 80 are not that)

My parents moved into one in mid 70s, and they love it. Sure it was a mindset to downsize (and all they could afford was a 1200 sq ft apartment) but for them, we had to pay the entry fee (mid 6 figures), and they are now enjoying a huge lifestyle improvement. They have activities, main meal each day included ((more if they feel like paying or managing the $$ well) and most importantly, with me being 2.5K miles away, they have the proper care should they ever need it, without me having to do much. It will be seamless if they need more care.
and they are the the "poor people" there, most are living it up, travel still and spend on many extras.
But now my parents no longer have a house to take care of, or any worries. If something breaks, it's not my dad attempting to fix it, they just put in a request and within a few Hours it's fixed. It's a beautiful campus with tons of outdoor activities, they have their own garden area and can easily walk 2-3 miles and not leave campus.

Not true. I know someone who got into one at age 90. And it's a nice one.

My parents got into assisted living at 88 and 93.

[Anonymous]

Private equity is buying up CCRCs and turning them into crap— you pay six figures and all of a sudden staff turnover is high, food is crap, skilled nursing is gone, etc…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I bought into the federal LTC plan and it has an unlimited policy. Who knows if it will be there when I need to use it.

I did too when I was young so the premiums are low. Ive heard a lot of the same other complaints about other LTC plans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Better to save/invest and find a great CCRC to enter when you are still healthy (ie early 70s). Get one where you won't pay any more for "advanced care" except the extra meals per day.


Early 70s is way too early, unless you know something about your health that will impede getting in. It's an 80s and 90s vibe. That's the trick here, knowing when to go. But early 70s won't be mentally a good idea.


First, you likely won't get in in your 80s unless in absolute excellent health (hint most 80 are not that)

My parents moved into one in mid 70s, and they love it. Sure it was a mindset to downsize (and all they could afford was a 1200 sq ft apartment) but for them, we had to pay the entry fee (mid 6 figures), and they are now enjoying a huge lifestyle improvement. They have activities, main meal each day included ((more if they feel like paying or managing the $$ well) and most importantly, with me being 2.5K miles away, they have the proper care should they ever need it, without me having to do much. It will be seamless if they need more care.
and they are the the "poor people" there, most are living it up, travel still and spend on many extras.
But now my parents no longer have a house to take care of, or any worries. If something breaks, it's not my dad attempting to fix it, they just put in a request and within a few Hours it's fixed. It's a beautiful campus with tons of outdoor activities, they have their own garden area and can easily walk 2-3 miles and not leave campus.

Not true. I know someone who got into one at age 90. And it's a nice one.

Sure there are exceptions. But I wouldn't plan to enter at 90, as it might not be possible.
A few might, but most won't let you enter if you are close to needing advanced care. My parents are in one, and very few people get in past mid to late 70s. The financial models need them in Ind Living for many years before needing advanced care.

[Anonymous]

A few thoughts:

1) LTC insurance premiums may be eligible for some tax breaks. There is an age-based formula for how much can be deducted federally (but won't apply unless you itemize and have at least 7.5% AGI medical expenses). In Virginia you can get a 15% tax credit on the premiums (again with various caveats).
2) The LTC premiums can be considered HSA eligible expenses based on the age-based formula.
3) If you want to think about it quantitatively, you can graph the total benefits of the LTC program versus investing the premiums using a reasonable compounding formula. For instance, our LTC was set to go up 4%/year, and investing can (usually) get a nominal 10%/year, so you can check at various ages the differences between LTCI and self-insuring. From there you can guesstimate a probabilistic scenario of which is better (e.g. if the total LTCI payout is 10x your self-insurance invested at age 80, do you think you would have a greater or less than 10% chance of using the LTCI?). However, you have to remember that the chances of using the full payout could be pretty low (e.g. 5 year plan could pay 500k, but if you only use it for 2 years you only get 200k).
4) You may want to consider family history, as a history of dementia or the like could increase the expected usage of the plan. However, this would probably increase the premium too.
5) Check carefully the provisions of your plan. We have the federal LTCI which has gone up in premiums significantly despite being "locked." In hindsight self-insurance would probably be a much better plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Better to save/invest and find a great CCRC to enter when you are still healthy (ie early 70s). Get one where you won't pay any more for "advanced care" except the extra meals per day.


Early 70s is way too early, unless you know something about your health that will impede getting in. It's an 80s and 90s vibe. That's the trick here, knowing when to go. But early 70s won't be mentally a good idea.


First, you likely won't get in in your 80s unless in absolute excellent health (hint most 80 are not that)

My parents moved into one in mid 70s, and they love it. Sure it was a mindset to downsize (and all they could afford was a 1200 sq ft apartment) but for them, we had to pay the entry fee (mid 6 figures), and they are now enjoying a huge lifestyle improvement. They have activities, main meal each day included ((more if they feel like paying or managing the $$ well) and most importantly, with me being 2.5K miles away, they have the proper care should they ever need it, without me having to do much. It will be seamless if they need more care.
and they are the the "poor people" there, most are living it up, travel still and spend on many extras.
But now my parents no longer have a house to take care of, or any worries. If something breaks, it's not my dad attempting to fix it, they just put in a request and within a few Hours it's fixed. It's a beautiful campus with tons of outdoor activities, they have their own garden area and can easily walk 2-3 miles and not leave campus.

Not true. I know someone who got into one at age 90. And it's a nice one.

Most people are in their 80s entering a CCRC. 70s is very much too early, but, again it depends on the people. Some people are "older " in their 70s than others, and I don't mean health. I am in my late 60s, and spent some time visiting a friend in an over 55 community in Fla ( not a ccrc, just a development) and I was extremely uncomfortable with the age grouping. Most were in their 70s to early 80s. I just felt like they were contemporaries with my parents' age group. I felt weird, actually, it was a big time warp- and so happy to go home back to my regular suburban neighborhood, all ages. Not ready to be socially engineered quite yet. If that's what an over 55 is, I really don't see myself in a CCRC in my mid 70s, with even older people, which is about 6 years away. But, absolutely, I want to go the CCRC eventually. I'm planning for that in my 80s. Time moves differently at this age. It's like a disortion mirror- everyone is in a different place head wise, but the world views them all as a monolith.