PSA: $250K family of 4 in the DMV area is not middle class

[Anonymous]

There are hundreds of millions of people in USA, and millions in DMV.
The "middle" is very, very wide, and not useful as a concept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just my two cents- people often calculate their HHI after taxes/retirement/insurance is removed. We are at about that income when we’ve maxed out retirement, it can sometimes feel tight if there’s a big repair expense. People forget how much they are savings snd concentrate on the monthly bill amount.

Also, our housings costs are much lower than normal, but SN kids and medical costs are very expensive. Sometimes it’s not overspending on housing.

They do? I have never heard of that. What you are talking about is when someone might say "my take home pay is X/month"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the country as a whole middle class isn't very high life. The lower threshold for MC in Arlington is around $90k. 2/3 the median income.
MC is having a budget, juggling payments, maybe some college.

Good luck finding a place to live for a family in Arlington on $90k. Median rent is over $2500 for a 2 bedroom unless you want to live in the very poorest parts of Arlington. $90k is poverty level in Arlington for a family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just my two cents- people often calculate their HHI after taxes/retirement/insurance is removed. We are at about that income when we’ve maxed out retirement, it can sometimes feel tight if there’s a big repair expense. People forget how much they are savings snd concentrate on the monthly bill amount.

Also, our housings costs are much lower than normal, but SN kids and medical costs are very expensive. Sometimes it’s not overspending on housing.

I have seen people do this and that is deranged. Especially because people in the DC area who are members of the professional class are generally putting away a ton for retirement. And insurance is a product! Some people have very good insurance that gets them access to the best healthcare, and some people are in HMOs they have to fight with just to find a provider who takes their insurance, or may have huge deductibles or it just doesn't cover as much stuff. The idea of removing these from your HHI in order to find out what class you are in is ridiculous. If you are wealthy enough to be putting tens of thousands of dollars toward retirement annually, you are already NOT middle class, by definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the country as a whole middle class isn't very high life. The lower threshold for MC in Arlington is around $90k. 2/3 the median income.
MC is having a budget, juggling payments, maybe some college.

Good luck finding a place to live for a family in Arlington on $90k. Median rent is over $2500 for a 2 bedroom unless you want to live in the very poorest parts of Arlington. $90k is poverty level in Arlington for a family.

You don't have to live in Arlington. This metro area is quite large. Yes, I realize if you want to have a shorter commute then you have to live closer in, but those are the choices 99% of people have to make - live closer and be house rich, or move further out and deal with a crappy commute.

A MC person doesn't have the luxury of making those choices sometimes. But, it doesn't make them poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just my two cents- people often calculate their HHI after taxes/retirement/insurance is removed. We are at about that income when we’ve maxed out retirement, it can sometimes feel tight if there’s a big repair expense. People forget how much they are savings snd concentrate on the monthly bill amount.

Also, our housings costs are much lower than normal, but SN kids and medical costs are very expensive. Sometimes it’s not overspending on housing.

I have seen people do this and that is deranged. Especially because people in the DC area who are members of the professional class are generally putting away a ton for retirement. And insurance is a product! Some people have very good insurance that gets them access to the best healthcare, and some people are in HMOs they have to fight with just to find a provider who takes their insurance, or may have huge deductibles or it just doesn't cover as much stuff. The idea of removing these from your HHI in order to find out what class you are in is ridiculous. If you are wealthy enough to be putting tens of thousands of dollars toward retirement annually, you are already NOT middle class, by definition.

+1 most in the MC are not fully funding their retirement accounts. At best, they are putting in 10% of their income. If you are putting in the max, you are definitely doing better than most of the MC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just my two cents- people often calculate their HHI after taxes/retirement/insurance is removed. We are at about that income when we’ve maxed out retirement, it can sometimes feel tight if there’s a big repair expense. People forget how much they are savings snd concentrate on the monthly bill amount.

Also, our housings costs are much lower than normal, but SN kids and medical costs are very expensive. Sometimes it’s not overspending on housing.

I have seen people do this and that is deranged. Especially because people in the DC area who are members of the professional class are generally putting away a ton for retirement. And insurance is a product! Some people have very good insurance that gets them access to the best healthcare, and some people are in HMOs they have to fight with just to find a provider who takes their insurance, or may have huge deductibles or it just doesn't cover as much stuff. The idea of removing these from your HHI in order to find out what class you are in is ridiculous. If you are wealthy enough to be putting tens of thousands of dollars toward retirement annually, you are already NOT middle class, by definition.

Agreed. This basically is the idea that wealth doesn't count, which we all know is not true.

[Anonymous]

250k is not much money at all in the DC metro area. Literally around 20% of households make this much or more in the DC metro area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:250k is not much money at all in the DC metro area. Literally around 20% of households make this much or more in the DC metro area.

True. But 20% is not around the middle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just my two cents- people often calculate their HHI after taxes/retirement/insurance is removed. We are at about that income when we’ve maxed out retirement, it can sometimes feel tight if there’s a big repair expense. People forget how much they are savings snd concentrate on the monthly bill amount.

Also, our housings costs are much lower than normal, but SN kids and medical costs are very expensive. Sometimes it’s not overspending on housing.

Truer words were never spoken. We felt UMC before we realized that DC had SN and needed the therapies. Yes, we have an IEP, but it’s not going to get DC completely functioning by 12th grade. Supplementing the gap is ruinous, but I cannot put him out in the world without at least trying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:250k is not much money at all in the DC metro area. Literally around 20% of households make this much or more in the DC metro area.

That doesn’t mean it’s not a lot of money. There are many nice neighborhoods and amenities around here because so many people earn a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:250k is not much money at all in the DC metro area. Literally around 20% of households make this much or more in the DC metro area.

Its plenty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just my two cents- people often calculate their HHI after taxes/retirement/insurance is removed. We are at about that income when we’ve maxed out retirement, it can sometimes feel tight if there’s a big repair expense. People forget how much they are savings snd concentrate on the monthly bill amount.

Also, our housings costs are much lower than normal, but SN kids and medical costs are very expensive. Sometimes it’s not overspending on housing.

Truer words were never spoken. We felt UMC before we realized that DC had SN and needed the therapies. Yes, we have an IEP, but it’s not going to get DC completely functioning by 12th grade. Supplementing the gap is ruinous, but I cannot put him out in the world without at least trying.

Yup, I have no idea how people with lower incomes handle the medical costs and tuition- reality is they aren't able to and their kids don't get the needed services. We can thankfully handle one private school tuition, if our other kid was SN also, no way we could do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

I don’t know about that. We’re a $250k couple with teens and a house with equity but when we had young kids, we made under $150k and it was extremely hard to save beyond retirement. We would be in better shape now with the benefit of those earlier years of higher income. That younger couple making $250k will probably be at $400k by the time they’re our ages!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:..no matter how much you think you are. If you feel middle class, then your spending is probably too high.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/16/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

Housing costs. It's housing costs that get us.

while I agree housing here is very expensive, you probably bought too much house cost wise for your income. I'm not unsympathetic to high housing costs. I used to live in the SF Bay Area.

Oh absolutely but that was a trade off for us - at the time we were both working full-time, somewhat inflexible jobs in the same part of DC and made the choice to spend more on housing so that we could have decent commutes (and in case of emergency we'd be able to make it home in 30-40 minutes). Even then, sometimes it took over an hour to go 12 miles.