PSA: $250K family of 4 in the DMV area is not middle class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

Spoken like someone who hasn't paid for daycare in over a decade. How are you spending $3000 a month on your teen? I'll give you a few hundred of those dollars as extra food and clothing. Which is much more expensive for teens. But. What else?

Private school. $55k a year. Sports lessons $500 a month, Travel sports $300 a month, therapy, $1000 a month, trainer $600 a month, travel for sports $300 a month (average).

You are in the top 0.001% on spending for your teen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

Spoken like someone who hasn't paid for daycare in over a decade. How are you spending $3000 a month on your teen? I'll give you a few hundred of those dollars as extra food and clothing. Which is much more expensive for teens. But. What else?

Private school. $55k a year. Sports lessons $500 a month, Travel sports $300 a month, therapy, $1000 a month, trainer $600 a month, travel for sports $300 a month (average).

I’m guessing you forgot the sarcasm tag. 🙂

[Anonymous]

I struggle a lot with these concepts. We put away a lot of money in 401Ks - the full amount.

We put away a lot in 529s - enough to have them accounts be 200K at high school graduation. Which is not as much as some, but more than others.

But mostly, we made the choice top put them in private high schools, luckily Catholic so not as expensive. But kid #1 cost us 100K. Kid 2 will be 140K. Full pay in cash.

If we didn't have that, I'd 100% feel upper middle class. But because all our extra mnoey goes to savings/schooling, our daily lives do not feel upper middle class. That's the dictinction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

Spoken like someone who hasn't paid for daycare in over a decade. How are you spending $3000 a month on your teen? I'll give you a few hundred of those dollars as extra food and clothing. Which is much more expensive for teens. But. What else?

Private school. $55k a year. Sports lessons $500 a month, Travel sports $300 a month, therapy, $1000 a month, trainer $600 a month, travel for sports $300 a month (average).

Right so good news is they get to pick private school or expensive sport. Teach your child that money management involves sacrifice and discipline. They will be better off for it. Catering to their every whim will not help them and likely cause long term harm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

They don't have to be more expensive. You can do rec sports and activities that don't cost $2K+/month. Daycare is required if both parents work. You cannot just eliminate it and leave your kid home alone as an infant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

How so? My teen is pretty cheap right now. In two years, he will break the bank as a college student but right now, not many costs.

Maybe their kids are elite gymnasts or figure skaters or something? Because otherwise I agree, genuinely trying to understand how someone is spending more on activities in the teen years than they did on childcare!

Spending more is a choice in the teen years. Yes, you can spend 20-30K/year with travel/competitive sports, but it's not required. whereas daycare is, and no working alternative hours isn't a choice if both parents are in 9-5 jobs (ie gold collar jobs)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How exactly are you saving $ for retirement and down-payment on a home on that income? Even a townhouse in not such a great school district is half a million now.

If you can't save on a $250k salary and a $500k home, I don't know what to tell you.

It tells me that you are old and out of touch with reality or live in Oklahoma. Let's say that a dual income family with 2 small kids are saving for a home. Their HHI is $250k. After paying their taxes, healthcare cost (average of 23k contribution for a family of 4), and contribute some to the 401k, they come home with around 10k/month. They have to pay rent while saving for a house, right? So that's 3.5k average for a 2 bedroom apartment in DC area (kids are sharing a room). They also have to put the kids someplace while working, right? So that's another 3k at minimum, assuming one is in preschool. They also have to eat, pay for transportation to work, buy clothes and laundry detergent ($20 right there, and there's so much laundry with kids), pay for utilities, car repairs (assuming they drive old, paid cars).They probably have student loans, because you can't make 250k as a family and not go to college, and these don't seem like the people with parents who paid for college. They probably want to see their families for Christmas and Thanksgiving, have you checked the airplane prices recently?
So how exactly are they saving $100k cash? This is a family who doesn't take any vacations or saves $ for college for their kids.

DP but while we make $250k combined now (kids are upper ES), we didn't make that much during most of the daycare years. But yeah, I guess we were "old" when we had kids in our mid-30s because I had paid off my student loans by then and we had saved for a down payment. Also, your healthcare costs seem really high so maybe that's affecting your finances. There are certainly places in the burbs where you can rent for less than $3500k per month too. I think the problem is that you're trying to do too much at once. You don't have to max out your 401k right now, we didn't during that time. But my actual middle class parents were barely saving anything so I have some perspective that we are relatively privliged.

dp.. When we had an ACA HDP, the cost was $1500/mo premium + $6000 deductible per person, $12500 for family, or something like that. If they have ACA and a HDP, then I can see the cost being high.

However, most middle income people are not able to contribute much to their retirement plan, so if you are able to, you are doing better than most of the MC.

[Anonymous]

Well I still can’t afford to buy a small 3br anything so it doesn’t matter how you want to classify me unless you feel like giving me a $1M down payment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

How so? My teen is pretty cheap right now. In two years, he will break the bank as a college student but right now, not many costs.

Maybe their kids are elite gymnasts or figure skaters or something? Because otherwise I agree, genuinely trying to understand how someone is spending more on activities in the teen years than they did on childcare!

Spending more is a choice in the teen years. Yes, you can spend 20-30K/year with travel/competitive sports, but it's not required. whereas daycare is, and no working alternative hours isn't a choice if both parents are in 9-5 jobs (ie gold collar jobs)

MC people are not spending $$$ on travel sports, unless they can get FA, or they have credit card debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well I still can’t afford to buy a small 3br anything so it doesn’t matter how you want to classify me unless you feel like giving me a $1M down payment.

https://www.fox5dc.com/news/washington-dc-income-salary-purchase-home

If you are looking in DC proper, you need an income of $240,009. However, you can buy a decent house outside DC proper with your income. Many do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

They don't have to be more expensive. You can do rec sports and activities that don't cost $2K+/month. Daycare is required if both parents work. You cannot just eliminate it and leave your kid home alone as an infant

Yes because that person is middle class. Point made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How exactly are you saving $ for retirement and down-payment on a home on that income? Even a townhouse in not such a great school district is half a million now.

If you can't save on a $250k salary and a $500k home, I don't know what to tell you.

It tells me that you are old and out of touch with reality or live in Oklahoma. Let's say that a dual income family with 2 small kids are saving for a home. Their HHI is $250k. After paying their taxes, healthcare cost (average of 23k contribution for a family of 4), and contribute some to the 401k, they come home with around 10k/month. They have to pay rent while saving for a house, right? So that's 3.5k average for a 2 bedroom apartment in DC area (kids are sharing a room). They also have to put the kids someplace while working, right? So that's another 3k at minimum, assuming one is in preschool. They also have to eat, pay for transportation to work, buy clothes and laundry detergent ($20 right there, and there's so much laundry with kids), pay for utilities, car repairs (assuming they drive old, paid cars).They probably have student loans, because you can't make 250k as a family and not go to college, and these don't seem like the people with parents who paid for college. They probably want to see their families for Christmas and Thanksgiving, have you checked the airplane prices recently?
So how exactly are they saving $100k cash? This is a family who doesn't take any vacations or saves $ for college for their kids.

Not exactly… we make 250 and save alot with three kids. But we bought in an exurb for sub 500 (before pandemic) with 40% down at a low interest rate. We always had roommates when we were single. Obviously housing costs now are a big barrier for people. We managed to get one of the cheapest houses in a neighborhood with highly rated public schools.

We fully fund retirement and have a healthy emergency fund (six figs.). We need to ramp up college saving but will likely wait till youngest is in public elementary school (3 more years)

we have an au pair.
We travel 1-2 times a year, including abroad but stay at places like Hampton inn.
We have student loans.
Utility (bge) and grocery costs have doubled in about 5 years, unfortunately. We do less wegmans and more Aldi.
We drive older cars that we pay cash for.
Kids wear hand me downs including lots from cousins.
We shop at Marshall’s.

So Yes, it’s do-able on 250, even at current housing interest rates. In fact it’s actually a lot of money. But you won’t be saving if you eat out every night and dress your kids in matching Hannah whatever, feel pressure to buy the $1000 stroller/wagon and/or crib, pay thousands for travel sports, shop exclusively at Whole Paycheck, and rip out perfectly usable kitchens or bathrooms from the 80’s because the wood is ‘too yellow.’

There’s a little too much doomsaying on here. We feel very privileged. We know we make a lot of money and feel a strong the responsibility to not waste it. We know there are many people living on much less than us, and it’s an insult to them to claim we are middle class. We hire cleaners and lawn mowers and in general have a ridiculously comfortable life.

This is the key. You bought at the right time with a low interest rate. We had our college and grad school paid by parents and they gifted us the down-payment on our 1st home. This is why we are in a 4200 sf home in a great area, with less than 3k monthly morgage at 2.5%. We were lucky. Most are not.
G*d forbid if one of your kids is special needs. We have great insurance and still spent 10k/year in therapies. Insurance covers nothing and a session is at least $250/hour, if you are lucky to find a spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I struggle a lot with these concepts. We put away a lot of money in 401Ks - the full amount.

We put away a lot in 529s - enough to have them accounts be 200K at high school graduation. Which is not as much as some, but more than others.

But mostly, we made the choice top put them in private high schools, luckily Catholic so not as expensive. But kid #1 cost us 100K. Kid 2 will be 140K. Full pay in cash.

If we didn't have that, I'd 100% feel upper middle class. But because all our extra mnoey goes to savings/schooling, our daily lives do not feel upper middle class. That's the dictinction.

Oh good lord. Private school, saving that much for college, and fully funding 401ks is absolutely upper middle class. Some of you are ridiculously out of touch and you don't even know it. If "feeling" more UMC is important to you, knock back your savings a bit one year and go on a luxury vacation or somthing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

Spoken like someone who hasn't paid for daycare in over a decade. How are you spending $3000 a month on your teen? I'll give you a few hundred of those dollars as extra food and clothing. Which is much more expensive for teens. But. What else?

Private school. $55k a year. Sports lessons $500 a month, Travel sports $300 a month, therapy, $1000 a month, trainer $600 a month, travel for sports $300 a month (average).

Damn. I am an actual middle class person and this is more than my entire family's annual spending. On everything. So this is obviously not what life just happens to cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How exactly are you saving $ for retirement and down-payment on a home on that income? Even a townhouse in not such a great school district is half a million now.

If you can't save on a $250k salary and a $500k home, I don't know what to tell you.

It tells me that you are old and out of touch with reality or live in Oklahoma. Let's say that a dual income family with 2 small kids are saving for a home. Their HHI is $250k. After paying their taxes, healthcare cost (average of 23k contribution for a family of 4), and contribute some to the 401k, they come home with around 10k/month. They have to pay rent while saving for a house, right? So that's 3.5k average for a 2 bedroom apartment in DC area (kids are sharing a room). They also have to put the kids someplace while working, right? So that's another 3k at minimum, assuming one is in preschool. They also have to eat, pay for transportation to work, buy clothes and laundry detergent ($20 right there, and there's so much laundry with kids), pay for utilities, car repairs (assuming they drive old, paid cars).They probably have student loans, because you can't make 250k as a family and not go to college, and these don't seem like the people with parents who paid for college. They probably want to see their families for Christmas and Thanksgiving, have you checked the airplane prices recently?
So how exactly are they saving $100k cash? This is a family who doesn't take any vacations or saves $ for college for their kids.

No, it tells me you are out of touch that you're complaining about making ends meet on that salary. You're well above what most people in DC and the country as a whole make. UMC doesn't mean you get everything you want with no tradeoffs. But if you really can't make it work I'd suggest a financial planner to help you.