Europe pre euro and freedom of movement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t think the eu is why places are crowded. It was hardly a hassle before to convert more currency and go to more border countrols. I think you have social media as well as the relative cheapness of flights vs years ago. We used to go on family trips to Europe in the 80s and early 90s, and what those tickets would cost in today’s dollars is crazy. I think the ease of planning on the internet has also contributed. I remember my dad having to spend days booking individual flights by calling all of the different airlines to compare, then calling back to see what was available and finally booking. Hotels were another pain. It was a ton of time consuming work that can now be done in a few clicks.

I agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else kind of wish Europe would switch back to individual currencies and border controls for each country? Purely selfish reasons. It’s far too crowded in many parts these days and I feel like this would clear out the travellers who aren’t willing or capable of dealing with a bit of bureaucracy and maths or planning in advance.

I'm an American who went to Europe 3 times as a kid in the 1970s and 1980s.

At that time, my mom was disappointed because we didn't get many neat stamps for our passports from border controls. Dealing with different currencies was not an obstacle to travel. And things did get very crowded back in the day. I remember going through Versailles in 1982 with a huge crowd. Part of which was made up of multiple bus loads of Japanese tourists. I remember it so well because I was a short middle schooler and I mostly only got to see ceilings.

I do not think the following changes can be or should be unwound:

-credit cards that work internationally
-smartphones
-internet hotel booking

I find that if you skip the major museums and attractions, things seem pretty normal.

I also agree with making tourists pay more than locals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was dirt cheap in Greece, parts of France, Portugal. Greece was ridiculously cheap. Then, post-euro, France became $$$ overnight!

Not true! I was at uni in France in 1998, and wound up working for a French company in 1999. Toward the end of '98 and into '99 prices in France were chaotic, as people were confused by the math. Also euro was below parity vs USD until 2002, so everything seemed cheap (for those with US dollars) immediately after the introduction of the euro. It took some time before prices jumped in a meaningful way.

Looking at crowds across the Euro zone in more recent times, the biggest difference I see is the huge growth in travelers from China. Chinese investors accounted for 50% of Portuguese golden visa applications. I remember rueing my bad timing, when I walked into the Duomo just as a mega-tour group was filing out of 3 busses, and waiting as ~200 Chinese tourists each took an obligatory photo before shuffling to a nearby Chinese restaurant for their pre-paid meal. The lines outside of Goyard/Hermes/etc in Paris shifted from Japanese to Chinese over the years (as did the signage and language of SAs). I think the increase of wealth in China and appetite for foreign travel from a huge Asian market has been a very big factor in increased tourism not just in Europe, but other parts of Asia (esp Thailand) too. From 2006-2016, Chinese travel to EU more than tripled - far outpacing other non-EU countries. (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Tourism_statistics_-_EU_and_China). Covid stopped this for a while, but I think it's back to pre-pandemic levels again.

Also, more recently, the 'influencer' trend has also pushed this (obv not just in Europe). And filming trends - GoT alone created dedicated tours in Ireland, Croatia, etc that are still swamped at all hours and all times of year. No secret little towns or islands anymore (yes, pp who says that travel shouldn't be for the elite few, I hear you, but it was still nicer to enjoy places when you weren't pinned shoulder-to-shoulder with strangers).

As a dual national, I don't want pre-Euro EU. I love having the right to move somewhere else as work, love or curiosity compels. I love not having to carry a half dozen separate currencies. I love being able to look up EU laws/regulations in languages that I'm comfortable with. Even with right wing nationalists, I think people also see the example of Brexit and the wreckage it has caused the UK economy plus US tariff threats as good examples of why the EU needs to stand together. A lot of the nationalist sentiment is aimed at immigration - especially illegal immigration - as that threatens local housing supply, jobs, etc.

This is the answer. Traveling from country to country pre-EU was no big deal for tourists. The difference is thousands of tourists from Asia (and the former Soviet Union) that didn't use to exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else kind of wish Europe would switch back to individual currencies and border controls for each country? Purely selfish reasons. It’s far too crowded in many parts these days and I feel like this would clear out the travellers who aren’t willing or capable of dealing with a bit of bureaucracy and maths or planning in advance.

Using a credit card - as most people do - solves any currency differences. This is silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do miss the old currencies. They were neat. Still remember paying 1500 lira for a can of coke in Italy.

Suspect EU will fall apart before it grows closer. A lot of their voters are really unhappy with the status quo and the inability of the EU to address their concerns beyond trying to make political parties illegal. It's not a small minority but a substantial one. Re the French poster above, there's a lot of deep unhappiness in France....

French PP here. Are you referring to the German AFD, and neo-Nazi parties in general? Sorry, you're out of line. We're doing our best not to fall into fascism again. You've never lived it. My grandparents and older aunts and uncles lived through WWII. Don't talk about what you don't know.

I’m always fascinated by people who lived through the war. My great grandparents did but I didn’t know them. How old are you that you had aunts and uncles alive at that time?

Also it’s pretty great to see someone in France so invested in an American parenting website mostly geared towards those living in DC. It provides an interesting prospective. Can you tell us about the difference in expectations between French and American grandparents?

Sorry to hijack the thread, OP. The French are just so endlessly interesting to me.

This site was started in 2002…well it was a list serve first. I was 29 at the time, 53 now, and my mother and her parents and siblings all
lived thru WW2 (in England). I don’t think it’s very unusual for many of us on DCUM to have family members who lived thru WW2. My mother and her one surviving sibliNG are 82 and 83 yrs old so, old, but not exactly ancient by today’s standards

So they were 1 & 2 when WWII ended

[Anonymous]

If you want to avoid the tourists, go to lesser-visited countries. Moldova has great wine; Georgia has great culinary traditions. Belarus has an interesting history, and Ukraine has great sights and beaches too. Of course the latter two aren't quite on the list currently, but they were great pre-war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do miss the old currencies. They were neat. Still remember paying 1500 lira for a can of coke in Italy.

Suspect EU will fall apart before it grows closer. A lot of their voters are really unhappy with the status quo and the inability of the EU to address their concerns beyond trying to make political parties illegal. It's not a small minority but a substantial one. Re the French poster above, there's a lot of deep unhappiness in France....

French PP here. Are you referring to the German AFD, and neo-Nazi parties in general? Sorry, you're out of line. We're doing our best not to fall into fascism again. You've never lived it. My grandparents and older aunts and uncles lived through WWII. Don't talk about what you don't know.

I’m always fascinated by people who lived through the war. My great grandparents did but I didn’t know them. How old are you that you had aunts and uncles alive at that time?

Also it’s pretty great to see someone in France so invested in an American parenting website mostly geared towards those living in DC. It provides an interesting prospective. Can you tell us about the difference in expectations between French and American grandparents?

Sorry to hijack the thread, OP. The French are just so endlessly interesting to me.

This site was started in 2002…well it was a list serve first. I was 29 at the time, 53 now, and my mother and her parents and siblings all
lived thru WW2 (in England). I don’t think it’s very unusual for many of us on DCUM to have family members who lived thru WW2. My mother and her one surviving sibliNG are 82 and 83 yrs old so, old, but not exactly ancient by today’s standards

Your mother and her siblings did not live through Nazism because they were born in 1942-43. The war ended in 1945. You also state they lived in the UK, a country never conquered by Hitler.

NP. My parents were young kids during WWII. They didn't remember much, but I knew my grandparents well and they were adults during the Depression and WWII.

[Anonymous]

Having been to customs line for returning American passport holders at ATL (almost 2 hrs!) and IAD (1 hr) within last couple of weeks, I have to say I'm a fan of ease of movement within EU and don't share OPs dreams of extra border scrutiny as recreation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This might be one of the most American things I've ever heard: "I want a entire continent to change their geo-political structure so that it's not as crowded when I visit once a year." Lol!

Right??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the European tourist spots are overcrowded. Those quaint little streets can't get any bigger, so if you add more tourists, it gets crowded big time.

As a PP mentioned, the growth of tourists from Asia, particularly China, has had a big effect on this. Add on that you can easily book everything online so it's a lot easier to hop over for a few days without massive planning and need fro a travel agent.

If you want a pleasant experience, go off-season or to secondary cities. That's what we've been doing, but we've also cut back our European travel as well. There's a lot of the US and Canada to see, so our next family trips are there.

This. Athens was pretty chill in April. Sure the Acropolis was busy but it was manageable and Crete was perfect.

This is a much bigger issue for the people who live and work on these cities not the visitors who have to deal with other tourists for a few days

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do miss the old currencies. They were neat. Still remember paying 1500 lira for a can of coke in Italy.

Suspect EU will fall apart before it grows closer. A lot of their voters are really unhappy with the status quo and the inability of the EU to address their concerns beyond trying to make political parties illegal. It's not a small minority but a substantial one. Re the French poster above, there's a lot of deep unhappiness in France....

French PP here. Are you referring to the German AFD, and neo-Nazi parties in general? Sorry, you're out of line. We're doing our best not to fall into fascism again. You've never lived it. My grandparents and older aunts and uncles lived through WWII. Don't talk about what you don't know.

Sorry - being against your country being overrun by migrants is not the same as being a Nazi. You are engaged in simplistic thinking.

Nope. Being a supporter of the AfD makes you a Nazi. Like the AfD itself is quite clear on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do miss the old currencies. They were neat. Still remember paying 1500 lira for a can of coke in Italy.

Suspect EU will fall apart before it grows closer. A lot of their voters are really unhappy with the status quo and the inability of the EU to address their concerns beyond trying to make political parties illegal. It's not a small minority but a substantial one. Re the French poster above, there's a lot of deep unhappiness in France....

French PP here. Are you referring to the German AFD, and neo-Nazi parties in general? Sorry, you're out of line. We're doing our best not to fall into fascism again. You've never lived it. My grandparents and older aunts and uncles lived through WWII. Don't talk about what you don't know.

Sorry - being against your country being overrun by migrants is not the same as being a Nazi. You are engaged in simplistic thinking.

Nope. Being a supporter of the AfD makes you a Nazi. Like the AfD itself is quite clear on that.

It's a Roman salute, okay. /s

[Anonymous]

As someone who lives in Europe and has EU citizenship (through marriage), no I dont. It benefits Europeans to have the EU and be able to move freely. But as an American, I remember the days of having to mind the 90 day schengen rules and those were seriously annoying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else kind of wish Europe would switch back to individual currencies and border controls for each country? Purely selfish reasons. It’s far too crowded in many parts these days and I feel like this would clear out the travellers who aren’t willing or capable of dealing with a bit of bureaucracy and maths or planning in advance.

No. These places have always been crowded. No one uses cash anymore. I have been to pretty remote places day in the back. It was a pain in the butt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do miss the old currencies. They were neat. Still remember paying 1500 lira for a can of coke in Italy.

Suspect EU will fall apart before it grows closer. A lot of their voters are really unhappy with the status quo and the inability of the EU to address their concerns beyond trying to make political parties illegal. It's not a small minority but a substantial one. Re the French poster above, there's a lot of deep unhappiness in France....

French PP here. Are you referring to the German AFD, and neo-Nazi parties in general? Sorry, you're out of line. We're doing our best not to fall into fascism again. You've never lived it. My grandparents and older aunts and uncles lived through WWII. Don't talk about what you don't know.

I’m always fascinated by people who lived through the war. My great grandparents did but I didn’t know them. How old are you that you had aunts and uncles alive at that time?

Also it’s pretty great to see someone in France so invested in an American parenting website mostly geared towards those living in DC. It provides an interesting prospective. Can you tell us about the difference in expectations between French and American grandparents?

Sorry to hijack the thread, OP. The French are just so endlessly interesting to me.

This site was started in 2002…well it was a list serve first. I was 29 at the time, 53 now, and my mother and her parents and siblings all
lived thru WW2 (in England). I don’t think it’s very unusual for many of us on DCUM to have family members who lived thru WW2. My mother and her one surviving sibliNG are 82 and 83 yrs old so, old, but not exactly ancient by today’s standards

Your mother and her siblings did not live through Nazism because they were born in 1942-43. The war ended in 1945. You also state they lived in the UK, a country never conquered by Hitler.

NP. My parents were young kids during WWII. They didn't remember much, but I knew my grandparents well and they were adults during the Depression and WWII.

Me too. I'm mid-50s but my paternal grandpa was born in 1899 and was drafted for WW1 but didn't have to serve. My dad was born in early 1941 in the US and remembers playing with war toys during the war and the 1945 celebration. All four of my grandparents talked to me about the Great Depression and WW2.