Moving from a top tier team to a B team in a "better" club? (U11)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, unfortunately you're in a tough spot.

Staying with a smaller club, where you do not enjoy the coach or losing record and/ or maybe they play in a lower tier league will probably not do much in the long run of doing much to get your son noticed or improve him much.

But being on the B team of a bigger club is also a hard spot to be. You might get better development and get more competitive players, but you are on the B team and you can get stuck there. It is hard to move from the 2nd team to the top team in that environment, the coaching staff will often take outside players over 2nd team players. And your 2nd team player is surrounded by other 2nd team players, which will be hard to develop in.

I'd pickup some outside training and bring him to some 1st team practices at other clubs, especially now that the dust from tryouts has settled.

Only lazy coaches are unwilling to put in the work to really observe top 2nd team players that could be a good addition to the top team. If outside talent is much stronger of course than take outside talent but to not even consider 2nd team players is a joke. Half of these coaches talk a big game about development but are unwilling to promote from within and really help a player grow.

Happens way too often at way too many clubs. Name the clubs here on this thread so people know which ones to be wary of.

Armour and SYC

I have two players at SYC including friends with kids in other ages and there is plenty of internal movement.

Can't speak for Armour but agree on this with SYC. My kid was given chances to play up then eventually was moved up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our DS plays in the top tier team of his club, but we have grown increasingly unhappy with the level of development him and his team achieved over the course of playing there. We tried out for another club, which is doing significantly better in local leagues than our current team. Their top team is extremely competitive, but they offered him a spot in their B team (which our team actually managed to beat last year). We liked the coaches and location wise things would be reasonably convenient for us. We mostly hope that in the new club he will develop more as a player, but of course there is the hope to move up to the top team eventually. What is the best decision here? Stay in the current team, which he enjoys and where he is part of the starting line-up in every game and maybe supplement technical skills privately and tryout again for the top team next year? Or make the move to the B team and hope he proves himself and manages to move up? I have zero clue on how these things work here, as we are foreigners, and reading this forum gives me the impression that being a top team player elsewhere might put someone in a better position than coming from a lower tier of the same club. We are currently leaning toward staying, but I would be curious about views and experiences of other travel soccer parents.

What are your goals or your DS's goals? That's probably going to lead to specific advice.

I went through the same decision process with my player. They were always the best player on their club's first team and generally the best player no matter who we played. They needed a bigger challenge so we moved to the second team at a larger club. The increased level of play at practice was in and of itself a good reason to move. They had to learn to work hard to be on level or better than everyone else. Again, depending on your goals, I generally believe find that next level for your kid whether it's a bigger environment, better practices, etc. When they are the best there, find the next level and so on. Also, maybe 90% of the time playing soccer is at practice, so it makes sense to have your player on the best possible team (controlling for other important factors for your specific situation) so they can spend that time competing against the best players possible at their level.

Also, FWIW at U11. The rosters are getting ready to expand at U13. So better to be in that system at a larger club before that expansion of the rosters takes place if your goal is to be on the first team.

One thing I would say about second teams. A second team which shares the same coach as the first team is a better environment for guest playing up and eventually moving up. The opportunities for your player and the incentives for the coach/club are better aligned in that kind of environment. My player benefited from that twice. I only have one player and sort of stumbled into this, but I would strongly offer this advice to anyone with younger players just beginning to navigate travel soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, unfortunately you're in a tough spot.

Staying with a smaller club, where you do not enjoy the coach or losing record and/ or maybe they play in a lower tier league will probably not do much in the long run of doing much to get your son noticed or improve him much.

But being on the B team of a bigger club is also a hard spot to be. You might get better development and get more competitive players, but you are on the B team and you can get stuck there. It is hard to move from the 2nd team to the top team in that environment, the coaching staff will often take outside players over 2nd team players. And your 2nd team player is surrounded by other 2nd team players, which will be hard to develop in.

I'd pickup some outside training and bring him to some 1st team practices at other clubs, especially now that the dust from tryouts has settled.

Only lazy coaches are unwilling to put in the work to really observe top 2nd team players that could be a good addition to the top team. If outside talent is much stronger of course than take outside talent but to not even consider 2nd team players is a joke. Half of these coaches talk a big game about development but are unwilling to promote from within and really help a player grow.

Happens way too often at way too many clubs. Name the clubs here on this thread so people know which ones to be wary of.

i'm not trying to be funny ... but honestly you'd be better naming the clubs that actually do promote from 2nd team ... because frankly it will be a smaller list than naming the clubs that won't or that don't have a solid track record of doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our DS plays in the top tier team of his club, but we have grown increasingly unhappy with the level of development him and his team achieved over the course of playing there. We tried out for another club, which is doing significantly better in local leagues than our current team. Their top team is extremely competitive, but they offered him a spot in their B team (which our team actually managed to beat last year). We liked the coaches and location wise things would be reasonably convenient for us. We mostly hope that in the new club he will develop more as a player, but of course there is the hope to move up to the top team eventually. What is the best decision here? Stay in the current team, which he enjoys and where he is part of the starting line-up in every game and maybe supplement technical skills privately and tryout again for the top team next year? Or make the move to the B team and hope he proves himself and manages to move up? I have zero clue on how these things work here, as we are foreigners, and reading this forum gives me the impression that being a top team player elsewhere might put someone in a better position than coming from a lower tier of the same club. We are currently leaning toward staying, but I would be curious about views and experiences of other travel soccer parents.

What are your goals or your DS's goals? That's probably going to lead to specific advice.

I went through the same decision process with my player. They were always the best player on their club's first team and generally the best player no matter who we played. They needed a bigger challenge so we moved to the second team at a larger club. The increased level of play at practice was in and of itself a good reason to move. They had to learn to work hard to be on level or better than everyone else. Again, depending on your goals, I generally believe find that next level for your kid whether it's a bigger environment, better practices, etc. When they are the best there, find the next level and so on. Also, maybe 90% of the time playing soccer is at practice, so it makes sense to have your player on the best possible team (controlling for other important factors for your specific situation) so they can spend that time competing against the best players possible at their level.

Also, FWIW at U11. The rosters are getting ready to expand at U13. So better to be in that system at a larger club before that expansion of the rosters takes place if your goal is to be on the first team.

One thing I would say about second teams. A second team which shares the same coach as the first team is a better environment for guest playing up and eventually moving up. The opportunities for your player and the incentives for the coach/club are better aligned in that kind of environment. My player benefited from that twice. I only have one player and sort of stumbled into this, but I would strongly offer this advice to anyone with younger players just beginning to navigate travel soccer.

I have rarely seen the same coach for the same age A and B team. Thats pretty unusual.

[Anonymous]

Can't speak for Armour but agree on this with SYC. My kid was given chances to play up then eventually was moved up.

Same experience here. DD was moved up twice at SYC. She puts in the work but it was nice to have other coaches openly advocating for her. We've also seen players moved down too so there is some kind of standard setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our DS plays in the top tier team of his club, but we have grown increasingly unhappy with the level of development him and his team achieved over the course of playing there. We tried out for another club, which is doing significantly better in local leagues than our current team. Their top team is extremely competitive, but they offered him a spot in their B team (which our team actually managed to beat last year). We liked the coaches and location wise things would be reasonably convenient for us. We mostly hope that in the new club he will develop more as a player, but of course there is the hope to move up to the top team eventually. What is the best decision here? Stay in the current team, which he enjoys and where he is part of the starting line-up in every game and maybe supplement technical skills privately and tryout again for the top team next year? Or make the move to the B team and hope he proves himself and manages to move up? I have zero clue on how these things work here, as we are foreigners, and reading this forum gives me the impression that being a top team player elsewhere might put someone in a better position than coming from a lower tier of the same club. We are currently leaning toward staying, but I would be curious about views and experiences of other travel soccer parents.

This is tough but I have found that usually all the kids on a top team take their training seriously, where only about half on a second team do. If you want the level of training to be higher, stick with a first team

+1 another reason it’s hard to break into the first team is that those kids do take it seriously and want to maintain their competitiveness. Pretty much all starters on DS MLSNext team train seriously outside of team practices.

Parents blame coaches for lack of development. The reality is that the best kids are doing drills and practicing on their own outside of practice because they love the game, love to win, and want to get better. Once it is age appropriate they embrace physical training and nutrition recommendations. OP if this isn't your kid, have realistic expectations. People here are too quick to pay for "travel soccer". The vast majority of kids would be perfectly happy playing rec (or house league) where the expectations for outside training are minimal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our DS plays in the top tier team of his club, but we have grown increasingly unhappy with the level of development him and his team achieved over the course of playing there. We tried out for another club, which is doing significantly better in local leagues than our current team. Their top team is extremely competitive, but they offered him a spot in their B team (which our team actually managed to beat last year). We liked the coaches and location wise things would be reasonably convenient for us. We mostly hope that in the new club he will develop more as a player, but of course there is the hope to move up to the top team eventually. What is the best decision here? Stay in the current team, which he enjoys and where he is part of the starting line-up in every game and maybe supplement technical skills privately and tryout again for the top team next year? Or make the move to the B team and hope he proves himself and manages to move up? I have zero clue on how these things work here, as we are foreigners, and reading this forum gives me the impression that being a top team player elsewhere might put someone in a better position than coming from a lower tier of the same club. We are currently leaning toward staying, but I would be curious about views and experiences of other travel soccer parents.

This is tough but I have found that usually all the kids on a top team take their training seriously, where only about half on a second team do. If you want the level of training to be higher, stick with a first team

+1 another reason it’s hard to break into the first team is that those kids do take it seriously and want to maintain their competitiveness. Pretty much all starters on DS MLSNext team train seriously outside of team practices.

Parents blame coaches for lack of development. The reality is that the best kids are doing drills and practicing on their own outside of practice because they love the game, love to win, and want to get better. Once it is age appropriate they embrace physical training and nutrition recommendations. OP if this isn't your kid, have realistic expectations. People here are too quick to pay for "travel soccer". The vast majority of kids would be perfectly happy playing rec (or house league) where the expectations for outside training are minimal.

OP here. We ended up in travel soccer almost accidentally. My husband is from a country where soccer is extremely popular and he just started kicking the ball with my son from very young age and he really enjoyed it. So we had him play with his class team and then signed him up for rec in our current club, where they almost immediately told us we should put him into a travel team and they made him part of a one year up second team. Then next year they offered us a spot on the top team for his age group. So there was never any push from us. He genuinely enjoys soccer, plays it every recess and drags my husband out to the field with him to practice. So the drive and love for the game is definitely there. I am actually somewhat worried that the competitive soccer environment might eventually take some of that joy from him. But at the same time I want him to help him develop his passion in the best possible environment, thus our dilemma.

[Anonymous]

OP - given that, what is worse to you: that he never makes it to the top team at a potential club or that he doesn’t have resources/breadth that the bigger club offers? If you care the most about the top team at the bigger club, wait to move him until he can make it. If you care the most about the resources at the bigger club and are okay with second team forever (despite what DCUM tells you, it’s ok to be on the second team and you can have fun and learn), then you have your answer.

[Anonymous]

agree with the others about syc. not sure about other clubs but we moved up along with several other players from the second team

[Anonymous]

The A coach is almost never the same coach as the B coach at the most competitive clubs. That is intentional.

If the A coach and B coach don’t collaborate, B team players don’t really get a look.

If B team is competitive B team coach doesn’t want to lose players mid season to become less competitive .

A team coach prefers other A team players when roster openings happen.

A strong B team coach who has a good relationship with A team coach can overcome this bias. but I have only experienced this with 1 B team coach across the past 4 years..

He got 2 of his players moved up across 2 years.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks DCUM for the thoughtful and kind responses. We went over everything with our son and decided to stay. Our own team just announced the roster and also here no one got moved up from the second team despite roster spots from going to 9v9 and moving one kid down. So we decided we retain the top team player label for him, motivate him to step it up outside of practices and reevaluate next year.