Moving from a top tier team to a B team in a "better" club? (U11)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Youth soccer in the US does not individually develop players. The players who get extra training in (be it through private coaches, private academies, or just spends extra time outside kicking the ball or even in their home or backyard) are the ones who continue to improve. Parents have to invest more time and money. That's the unfortunate reality of youth soccer in our country.

Coaches have limited time per week to train the whole team. If a coach spend their training hours on individual skills development, the team gets blown out of games (and parents complain about that).

Yes and No. The no is that I disagree with the notion that kids aren't developed at the team level. There is other development taking place such as tactical learning, positional and situational understanding, mindset, confidence, fitness improvements, and many others that all contribute to a player's development.

Agree with you that most individual skill development will require external training with trainer or individually. A good coach on a team level will still take the time show players on how to do something correctly.

Just because a team coach is not working on an unopposed drills/footskills cone drills for half of the practice does not mean that individual player is not taking place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our DS plays in the top tier team of his club, but we have grown increasingly unhappy with the level of development him and his team achieved over the course of playing there. We tried out for another club, which is doing significantly better in local leagues than our current team. Their top team is extremely competitive, but they offered him a spot in their B team (which our team actually managed to beat last year). We liked the coaches and location wise things would be reasonably convenient for us. We mostly hope that in the new club he will develop more as a player, but of course there is the hope to move up to the top team eventually. What is the best decision here? Stay in the current team, which he enjoys and where he is part of the starting line-up in every game and maybe supplement technical skills privately and tryout again for the top team next year? Or make the move to the B team and hope he proves himself and manages to move up? I have zero clue on how these things work here, as we are foreigners, and reading this forum gives me the impression that being a top team player elsewhere might put someone in a better position than coming from a lower tier of the same club. We are currently leaning toward staying, but I would be curious about views and experiences of other travel soccer parents.

Is your child improving on the current team? Is he improving while playing against better opposition? Even if they lose, are they at least competitive? If yes to all, stay where you are at.

Parents far too often equate a "winning" club to a "good" club. While I am saying win-lose records should not be guide, it could also be obvious that you are in the wrong club if your DC's team is getting blown out every game. Most of the "winning" U11 teams out there have the same make up - big strong kids. That absolutely does not prove that club is actually training their players correctly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, unfortunately you're in a tough spot.

Staying with a smaller club, where you do not enjoy the coach or losing record and/ or maybe they play in a lower tier league will probably not do much in the long run of doing much to get your son noticed or improve him much.

But being on the B team of a bigger club is also a hard spot to be. You might get better development and get more competitive players, but you are on the B team and you can get stuck there. It is hard to move from the 2nd team to the top team in that environment, the coaching staff will often take outside players over 2nd team players. And your 2nd team player is surrounded by other 2nd team players, which will be hard to develop in.

I'd pickup some outside training and bring him to some 1st team practices at other clubs, especially now that the dust from tryouts has settled.

Only lazy coaches are unwilling to put in the work to really observe top 2nd team players that could be a good addition to the top team. If outside talent is much stronger of course than take outside talent but to not even consider 2nd team players is a joke. Half of these coaches talk a big game about development but are unwilling to promote from within and really help a player grow.

Happens way too often at way too many clubs. Name the clubs here on this thread so people know which ones to be wary of.

Armour and SYC

I have two players at SYC including friends with kids in other ages and there is plenty of internal movement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Youth soccer in the US does not individually develop players. The players who get extra training in (be it through private coaches, private academies, or just spends extra time outside kicking the ball or even in their home or backyard) are the ones who continue to improve. Parents have to invest more time and money. That's the unfortunate reality of youth soccer in our country.

Coaches have limited time per week to train the whole team. If a coach spend their training hours on individual skills development, the team gets blown out of games (and parents complain about that).

Yes and No. The no is that I disagree with the notion that kids aren't developed at the team level. There is other development taking place such as tactical learning, positional and situational understanding, mindset, confidence, fitness improvements, and many others that all contribute to a player's development.

Agree with you that most individual skill development will require external training with trainer or individually. A good coach on a team level will still take the time show players on how to do something correctly.

Just because a team coach is not working on an unopposed drills/footskills cone drills for half of the practice does not mean that individual player is not taking place.

Not arguing, because I actually agree. Just want to clarify that I was speaking in general.

Coaches who focus on collective tactics and fundamentals are still indeed "developing". And yes, coaches should still teach individual skills. But very little time and effort can be spent on improving individual skills when the coach has 12-20 kids on a team and only an hour to an an hour and a half per practice. Also, as it usually turns out, whenever any player gets extra attention on individual items gives another excuse for parents to accuse coaches of some sort of wrongdoing.

It really sucks for coaches trying to do the right thing because so many parents think the whole world revolves around their own kid.

[Anonymous]

OP is your son U11 right now (U12 next year) or U10 right now (U11 next year)? I feel like you might think about this differently depending on the answer.

If U11 right now, spots on top team rosters are limited because the kids are playing 9v9 for one more year. If your son would be one of the strongest B team players, there is a decent change they would get moved up to A when a few kids leave for ECNL/MLSNext and the rosters get bigger anyway.

If U10 right now, each team has had to expand their roster to go from 7v7 to 9v9. If your son couldn't get a spot on a top team in a year of roster expansion, it might mean they just aren't quite at that level and are less likely to get moved up during the season or the following year.

Of course, in either scenario there is the risk that the club adds players from outside rather than promoting from within. You would have to talk to parents at the other club to really get an idea of that.

What does your son want to do? I think it's generally best to go with that. You may have more clarity a year from now. Last year I had reservations about sticking with our son's current A team for reasons similar to what you describe. But he was happy and wanted to stay, so we did. Unfortunately it has not gone well. On the bright side it made the decision to leave very easy this year. The options were very similar to what you're considering, except that he also had an offer for a different A team that is somewhere between his current team and the one where he would at least start out on B.

Whatever you and your son decide, the year will probably go quickly. Do some outside training regardless to maximize the chances of good options for the following year.

[Anonymous]

I would stay on the top team and move later.

At U-13 things move more competitive as you move to the official ECNL/MLS and that (or U-12) would be a good time to try out elsewhere as you will get good looks being from a top team...if you are trying out from a B team there is already a notch against you. Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic. Coaches are looking to replace current players with better players. You get a one hour try out to prove yourself. Its a lot easier if you also have the A team verification to support the coach's opinion of that tryout.

In my experience, it's very hard to move up from the B team to the A team once things are set. Clubs look to outside players from other A teams before your B player unless you are the tippy tippy top of the B team. Try to use the next year to impress coaches from opposing teams and try to get invitation to practice with the A team from other clubs.

My player has been on the A team for 5 years. During that time 8 kids have moved 'down' and only 2 have moved up from the B team. Replacements were sourced from outside the club. It's very very hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP is your son U11 right now (U12 next year) or U10 right now (U11 next year)? I feel like you might think about this differently depending on the answer.

If U11 right now, spots on top team rosters are limited because the kids are playing 9v9 for one more year. If your son would be one of the strongest B team players, there is a decent change they would get moved up to A when a few kids leave for ECNL/MLSNext and the rosters get bigger anyway.

If U10 right now, each team has had to expand their roster to go from 7v7 to 9v9. If your son couldn't get a spot on a top team in a year of roster expansion, it might mean they just aren't quite at that level and are less likely to get moved up during the season or the following year.

Of course, in either scenario there is the risk that the club adds players from outside rather than promoting from within. You would have to talk to parents at the other club to really get an idea of that.

What does your son want to do? I think it's generally best to go with that. You may have more clarity a year from now. Last year I had reservations about sticking with our son's current A team for reasons similar to what you describe. But he was happy and wanted to stay, so we did. Unfortunately it has not gone well. On the bright side it made the decision to leave very easy this year. The options were very similar to what you're considering, except that he also had an offer for a different A team that is somewhere between his current team and the one where he would at least start out on B.

Whatever you and your son decide, the year will probably go quickly. Do some outside training regardless to maximize the chances of good options for the following year.

Thank you. He is a rising U11 but the kids in that age group in the new club are playing one year up so they were already at 9v9 this year. I think my son prefers to stay and we will likely do that and work on his skills outside of practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, unfortunately you're in a tough spot.

Staying with a smaller club, where you do not enjoy the coach or losing record and/ or maybe they play in a lower tier league will probably not do much in the long run of doing much to get your son noticed or improve him much.

But being on the B team of a bigger club is also a hard spot to be. You might get better development and get more competitive players, but you are on the B team and you can get stuck there. It is hard to move from the 2nd team to the top team in that environment, the coaching staff will often take outside players over 2nd team players. And your 2nd team player is surrounded by other 2nd team players, which will be hard to develop in.

I'd pickup some outside training and bring him to some 1st team practices at other clubs, especially now that the dust from tryouts has settled.

Only lazy coaches are unwilling to put in the work to really observe top 2nd team players that could be a good addition to the top team. If outside talent is much stronger of course than take outside talent but to not even consider 2nd team players is a joke. Half of these coaches talk a big game about development but are unwilling to promote from within and really help a player grow.

Happens way too often at way too many clubs. Name the clubs here on this thread so people know which ones to be wary of.

Armour and SYC

OP here. This was not actually an answer written by me. Our current club is actually not a small club, as guessed by a PP, the team plays in NCLS and they have several very successful teams in various age groups. But they are not part of ECNL or MLS next. The club we are looking at is one of the major NOVA ones (think McLean, Arlington, Alexandria) etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Youth soccer in the US does not individually develop players. The players who get extra training in (be it through private coaches, private academies, or just spends extra time outside kicking the ball or even in their home or backyard) are the ones who continue to improve. Parents have to invest more time and money. That's the unfortunate reality of youth soccer in our country.

Coaches have limited time per week to train the whole team. If a coach spend their training hours on individual skills development, the team gets blown out of games (and parents complain about that).

Yes and No. The no is that I disagree with the notion that kids aren't developed at the team level. There is other development taking place such as tactical learning, positional and situational understanding, mindset, confidence, fitness improvements, and many others that all contribute to a player's development.

Agree with you that most individual skill development will require external training with trainer or individually. A good coach on a team level will still take the time show players on how to do something correctly.

Just because a team coach is not working on an unopposed drills/footskills cone drills for half of the practice does not mean that individual player is not taking place.

Not arguing, because I actually agree. Just want to clarify that I was speaking in general.

Coaches who focus on collective tactics and fundamentals are still indeed "developing". And yes, coaches should still teach individual skills. But very little time and effort can be spent on improving individual skills when the coach has 12-20 kids on a team and only an hour to an an hour and a half per practice. Also, as it usually turns out, whenever any player gets extra attention on individual items gives another excuse for parents to accuse coaches of some sort of wrongdoing.

It really sucks for coaches trying to do the right thing because so many parents think the whole world revolves around their own kid.

I agree with you, makes sense when you say in general. I have seen many comments here that believe it to always be true, I assume from others that club coaches do pretty much nothing.

[Anonymous]

We have done the small club thing and also have a kid on a GA team. If I could do it all over I would prefer small club with a good coach and committed teammates and pay a fraction of the cost and much less travel but just enough to have some fun getaways. I think the expensive clubs are a waste of money unless the player has strong college or pro ambitions and is already able to be a contributor on a top team where they get the needed college scouting exposure. The B team is just not worth it. If you have several thousand to spare hire some private training all year while playing at the small club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have done the small club thing and also have a kid on a GA team. If I could do it all over I would prefer small club with a good coach and committed teammates and pay a fraction of the cost and much less travel but just enough to have some fun getaways. I think the expensive clubs are a waste of money unless the player has strong college or pro ambitions and is already able to be a contributor on a top team where they get the needed college scouting exposure. The B team is just not worth it. If you have several thousand to spare hire some private training all year while playing at the small club.

The clubs between which we are deciding cost the same and neither is small, so these things are not really a factor. Our main concern was the coaching. Nice coach but the kids don’t seem to be learning much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our DS plays in the top tier team of his club, but we have grown increasingly unhappy with the level of development him and his team achieved over the course of playing there. We tried out for another club, which is doing significantly better in local leagues than our current team. Their top team is extremely competitive, but they offered him a spot in their B team (which our team actually managed to beat last year). We liked the coaches and location wise things would be reasonably convenient for us. We mostly hope that in the new club he will develop more as a player, but of course there is the hope to move up to the top team eventually. What is the best decision here? Stay in the current team, which he enjoys and where he is part of the starting line-up in every game and maybe supplement technical skills privately and tryout again for the top team next year? Or make the move to the B team and hope he proves himself and manages to move up? I have zero clue on how these things work here, as we are foreigners, and reading this forum gives me the impression that being a top team player elsewhere might put someone in a better position than coming from a lower tier of the same club. We are currently leaning toward staying, but I would be curious about views and experiences of other travel soccer parents.

This is tough but I have found that usually all the kids on a top team take their training seriously, where only about half on a second team do. If you want the level of training to be higher, stick with a first team

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our DS plays in the top tier team of his club, but we have grown increasingly unhappy with the level of development him and his team achieved over the course of playing there. We tried out for another club, which is doing significantly better in local leagues than our current team. Their top team is extremely competitive, but they offered him a spot in their B team (which our team actually managed to beat last year). We liked the coaches and location wise things would be reasonably convenient for us. We mostly hope that in the new club he will develop more as a player, but of course there is the hope to move up to the top team eventually. What is the best decision here? Stay in the current team, which he enjoys and where he is part of the starting line-up in every game and maybe supplement technical skills privately and tryout again for the top team next year? Or make the move to the B team and hope he proves himself and manages to move up? I have zero clue on how these things work here, as we are foreigners, and reading this forum gives me the impression that being a top team player elsewhere might put someone in a better position than coming from a lower tier of the same club. We are currently leaning toward staying, but I would be curious about views and experiences of other travel soccer parents.

This is tough but I have found that usually all the kids on a top team take their training seriously, where only about half on a second team do. If you want the level of training to be higher, stick with a first team

+1 another reason it’s hard to break into the first team is that those kids do take it seriously and want to maintain their competitiveness. Pretty much all starters on DS MLSNext team train seriously outside of team practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have done the small club thing and also have a kid on a GA team. If I could do it all over I would prefer small club with a good coach and committed teammates and pay a fraction of the cost and much less travel but just enough to have some fun getaways. I think the expensive clubs are a waste of money unless the player has strong college or pro ambitions and is already able to be a contributor on a top team where they get the needed college scouting exposure. The B team is just not worth it. If you have several thousand to spare hire some private training all year while playing at the small club.

The clubs between which we are deciding cost the same and neither is small, so these things are not really a factor. Our main concern was the coaching. Nice coach but the kids don’t seem to be learning much.

OP we are in the same situation for DC. At a smaller club that really means well. Good environment and amazingly kind coaches. Even adding in extra trainings for the team, but DC still feels like the offer at a more well-known B team will provide better coaching and future opportunity.

It's a risk for us to leave what is familiar, knowing that our current club is making positive changes, but I'm letting DC drive the choice. We've talked about the pros and cons and ultimately they have decided even in a perfect scenario at current club, they want a fresh opportunity for new growth. It's scary as the parent when you aren't sure if their choice is really the best, and could be a step backwards, but sometimes you have to let your kid choose their path so they feel that sense of ownership.

It sounds like you are doing a good job letting your son make his choices and being the support person through the process.

[Anonymous]

U11 is so young especially for boys. Go where your son is happiest. Puberty changes everything in boys soccer and the teams will look so different in a couple more years. It’s impossible to predict so don’t try to game which path will be better for making a top team. The best path for him to play on a top team in a couple years is the one that feeds his love for the game and drives him to work hard on his own to develop skills and self confidence.