Cradle Catholics vs Converts

[Anonymous]

Many catholics have bible study but they usually do it in conjunction with the catechism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many catholics have bible study but they usually do it in conjunction with the catechism

Many cradle Catholics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a lot of discussion online about the difference between cradle Catholics and converts and the difference in just being seeped in the culture of being catholic and converting and trying to learn from a book.

Anybody else following this?

Many explain it much better than I can. As a multigenerational cradle Catholics I feel like it’s finally being explained in a way I never could.

I could see many returning to being more active if we could just connect with more cradle Catholics.

can you provide some links? I have not noticed any discussion, though it does interest me. I am a convert and generally find that I have a lot of trouble connecting with cradle Catholics. I don't know any of the cultural stuff they know, and they generally lack much real knowledge of theology.

If you go to Instagram or TikTok and just search on cradle Catholic, you’ll get a bunch of posts.

Many of the posts are tongue in cheek because that sort of how cradle Catholics talk about religion. It’s literally like being Italian like you can’t explain what it’s like to be Italian. You just are Italian.

Cradle Catholics are from soup to nuts. Every little bit of our life is catholic..

My grandmother would say, Jesus, Mary and Joseph every time something happened. Every time I scrape my knee, they would say offered up as a sacrifice to God. These are just teeny tiny examples of how Catholicism permeated my life.

They also talk about converts really know the “Bible”, but they don’t know Catholicism, which would be the study of the catechism or Cannon Law or understanding Humanea vitae or what happened in Vatican 2 or each iteration of the translation of the Bible like the 1946 translation of the Bible would be something that a cradle Catholic would know but maybe a convert wouldn’t know

They talk about how converts study the Bible, which is something Catholics do not specifically do. We don’t really do Bible study.

Converts often don’t really understand Saints or the role of Mary in the church because they come from religions where they have a personal relationship with God. Or they come from a religion where all you have to do is believe Jesus is your Lord and your savior to be saved and Catholics really have to go through a maze of rules and life choices to get to heaven.

In my experience, converts know more than cradle catholics because they actually study the religion as adults.

In my experience, converts are familiar with the law, but don't understand the spirit at all.

This. Much rule citing, in my experience. With eye-rolling from the cradle Catholics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am cradle Catholic my wife is a convert from Protestantism. (Nothing to do with politics and she's more liberal than me.)

I like converts because one thing most Protestant denominations do well is keep it simple and keep it about Jesus. Sometimes Catholics get distracted with all the smells and bells and the canon law and the history and the debates and forget the MOST important thing is connecting with and conforming our soul to the Source. The easiest way to do that is to understand that the Source came down and took human form to show us the path to eternal life and follow the example He set for us. If someone starts there, you can build outward to infinity. But if you forget the basics, everything falls apart.

I could make various other criticisms of Protestantism but they tend to get that simple part right in their teaching more often than Catholics.

This is a really good example of something cradle Catholic would never say or would be met with a deer in headlights.

Really a cradle catholic only cares about doing unto others, what would Jesus do, feed the poor, be kind. We’re not all about the source whatever the hell that is.

I agree Catholicism (not cradle Catholics) loves the rules and all the other crazy stuff. We aren’t the Council of bishops. We are Cradle Catholics we know all the rules, but don’t get all tied up in them because we know all the loopholes, and we all know all the contradictions.

Also, besides love being the greatest of them all we understand primacy of conscience.

I mean, seriously if you started talking to cradle Catholics about the source and the soul and blah blah blah yeah you would lose them immediately.

Now, if you come to them and say hey, we’re gonna be feeding the poor, clothing the homeless or building a house for someone they’d be all in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The demarcation throws the conversation off.

There are absolutely cradle Catholics who are deep in Bible study (Bible in a Year was a smashing success in Catholic circles), know the catechism well, and generally try to actively live out their faith/the sacraments.

There are also cradle Catholics who are (a) poorly formed in the faith; (b) not particularly active in the faith; or (c) do not identify with it as a faith but rather as a cultural identity. There are other types, too.

On (a) I once had someone in total shock tell me they had never heard of HDOs and they had been educated by Jesuits for 13 years (you don’t say!) and clearly I was making it up.

On (b) a poster up thread mentioned not being particularly active in the Church.

On (c) there is the poster who mentioned Jewish and Catholic interfaith marriages working well; which sort of fits the bill (both ways).

These are all individuals captured by “cradle Catholic” along with everyone else. Just too broad of a term.

Given that converts are more likely to be conservative (not always), and that the swath of cradle Catholics is just way too broad to categorize, I don’t think these comparisons are helpful.

I do think that converts can be caught by surprise by just how big the tent of Catholicism is and the many ways people practice within that tent.

I also think converts can struggle with the mysticism within Catholicism. One of my closest friends is a convert (but his wife is cradle). We’ve taken our families on multiple pilgrimages together to places like Mexico City and Rome and he is still learning to embrace the mysticism. We’re planning on going to Fatima next year and that will be another interesting case.

Nobody said that cradle Catholics don’t read the Bible. They said they don’t go to Bible study.

Also, nobody said that cradle Catholics are all the same what was said is that they have some themes and shared experiences that are the same that make them feel connected to each other.

They could have 80% of their experiences be different but the 20% that is the same that other people don’t experience is what they were bonding over.

I’d be really surprised if a cradle cat was getting all wrapped up in the mysticism of anything. I haven’t been to Fatima yet but most my family has and it’s just like oh wow that was cool. There’s no spiritual awakening or anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a lot of discussion online about the difference between cradle Catholics and converts and the difference in just being seeped in the culture of being catholic and converting and trying to learn from a book.

Anybody else following this?

Many explain it much better than I can. As a multigenerational cradle Catholics I feel like it’s finally being explained in a way I never could.

I could see many returning to being more active if we could just connect with more cradle Catholics.

can you provide some links? I have not noticed any discussion, though it does interest me. I am a convert and generally find that I have a lot of trouble connecting with cradle Catholics. I don't know any of the cultural stuff they know, and they generally lack much real knowledge of theology.

The "cultural" stuff is usually just that - cultural, not religious. It comes from having an Italian, Irish, Polish, Hispanic or German family. It doesn't actually come from Catholicism.

It’s cultural for sure, but as an Irish Catholic, I can talk to an Italian Catholic and we will share experiences where if I talk to an Italian Protestant, we wouldn’t show those cultural experiences, which is why it’s a Catholic culture not a culture based on where your ancestors are from.

I never met an Italian protestant - or a Polish, or Irish protestant. Yes, I certainly have shared experiences with Catholics of other ethnicities. My closest friends growing up were Catholics of other ethnicities.. We sometimes went to confession together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am cradle Catholic my wife is a convert from Protestantism. (Nothing to do with politics and she's more liberal than me.)

I like converts because one thing most Protestant denominations do well is keep it simple and keep it about Jesus. Sometimes Catholics get distracted with all the smells and bells and the canon law and the history and the debates and forget the MOST important thing is connecting with and conforming our soul to the Source. The easiest way to do that is to understand that the Source came down and took human form to show us the path to eternal life and follow the example He set for us. If someone starts there, you can build outward to infinity. But if you forget the basics, everything falls apart.

I could make various other criticisms of Protestantism but they tend to get that simple part right in their teaching more often than Catholics.

This is a really good example of something cradle Catholic would never say or would be met with a deer in headlights.

Really a cradle catholic only cares about doing unto others, what would Jesus do, feed the poor, be kind. We’re not all about the source whatever the hell that is.

I agree Catholicism (not cradle Catholics) loves the rules and all the other crazy stuff. We aren’t the Council of bishops. We are Cradle Catholics we know all the rules, but don’t get all tied up in them because we know all the loopholes, and we all know all the contradictions.

Also, besides love being the greatest of them all we understand primacy of conscience.

I mean, seriously if you started talking to cradle Catholics about the source and the soul and blah blah blah yeah you would lose them immediately.

Now, if you come to them and say hey, we’re gonna be feeding the poor, clothing the homeless or building a house for someone they’d be all in.

I used the Source as a non-Christian term that might help a non-Christian understand what I am talking about. People use terms like that in new age spirituality, it's not really a Protestant term. However, it is accurate. (Not everything about new age spirituality is wrong, btw, just like not everything about Islam is wrong either.)

I do agree with you on the substance of your message. Many Catholics have very thin faith that's comprised of works and understanding history and not based on a deep spiritual connection with God. Because Protestants don't emphasize works or history, they do a better job of making sure people in their congregation actually have a deep spiritual life. In that way, they are superior to Catholics.

I am happy being Catholic. Protestant theology is all mangled because it's disconnected from history, and they constantly splinter into sects that disagree and then end up generations later with people that don't even understand what the disagreement is about. But on a personal level I find individual Protestants to usually be stronger in their faith than individual Catholics. And that's a shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am cradle Catholic my wife is a convert from Protestantism. (Nothing to do with politics and she's more liberal than me.)

I like converts because one thing most Protestant denominations do well is keep it simple and keep it about Jesus. Sometimes Catholics get distracted with all the smells and bells and the canon law and the history and the debates and forget the MOST important thing is connecting with and conforming our soul to the Source. The easiest way to do that is to understand that the Source came down and took human form to show us the path to eternal life and follow the example He set for us. If someone starts there, you can build outward to infinity. But if you forget the basics, everything falls apart.

I could make various other criticisms of Protestantism but they tend to get that simple part right in their teaching more often than Catholics.

This is a really good example of something cradle Catholic would never say or would be met with a deer in headlights.

Really a cradle catholic only cares about doing unto others, what would Jesus do, feed the poor, be kind. We’re not all about the source whatever the hell that is.

I agree Catholicism (not cradle Catholics) loves the rules and all the other crazy stuff. We aren’t the Council of bishops. We are Cradle Catholics we know all the rules, but don’t get all tied up in them because we know all the loopholes, and we all know all the contradictions.

Also, besides love being the greatest of them all we understand primacy of conscience.

I mean, seriously if you started talking to cradle Catholics about the source and the soul and blah blah blah yeah you would lose them immediately.

Now, if you come to them and say hey, we’re gonna be feeding the poor, clothing the homeless or building a house for someone they’d be all in.

I used the Source as a non-Christian term that might help a non-Christian understand what I am talking about. People use terms like that in new age spirituality, it's not really a Protestant term. However, it is accurate. (Not everything about new age spirituality is wrong, btw, just like not everything about Islam is wrong either.)

I do agree with you on the substance of your message. Many Catholics have very thin faith that's comprised of works and understanding history and not based on a deep spiritual connection with God. Because Protestants don't emphasize works or history, they do a better job of making sure people in their congregation actually have a deep spiritual life. In that way, they are superior to Catholics.

I am happy being Catholic. Protestant theology is all mangled because it's disconnected from history, and they constantly splinter into sects that disagree and then end up generations later with people that don't even understand what the disagreement is about. But on a personal level I find individual Protestants to usually be stronger in their faith than individual Catholics. And that's a shame.

lol, what?

You continue feeling complete in your spiritual connections and all. God bless!

I’m gonna go do a good act for someone else and then not tell anybody about it in honor of my “thin faith”, ✝️😂 then I’m gonna say Seven Hail Marys in four our father’s feeling guilty that I didn’t help more people.

You know this whole thing isn’t about which is better.

[Anonymous]

From my outside observation, cradle Catholics do what they want - birth control, sex before marriage, divorce, etc. Converts take everything seriously, especially the transubstantiation of communion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am cradle Catholic my wife is a convert from Protestantism. (Nothing to do with politics and she's more liberal than me.)

I like converts because one thing most Protestant denominations do well is keep it simple and keep it about Jesus. Sometimes Catholics get distracted with all the smells and bells and the canon law and the history and the debates and forget the MOST important thing is connecting with and conforming our soul to the Source. The easiest way to do that is to understand that the Source came down and took human form to show us the path to eternal life and follow the example He set for us. If someone starts there, you can build outward to infinity. But if you forget the basics, everything falls apart.

I could make various other criticisms of Protestantism but they tend to get that simple part right in their teaching more often than Catholics.

This is a really good example of something cradle Catholic would never say or would be met with a deer in headlights.

Really a cradle catholic only cares about doing unto others, what would Jesus do, feed the poor, be kind. We’re not all about the source whatever the hell that is.

I agree Catholicism (not cradle Catholics) loves the rules and all the other crazy stuff. We aren’t the Council of bishops. We are Cradle Catholics we know all the rules, but don’t get all tied up in them because we know all the loopholes, and we all know all the contradictions.

Also, besides love being the greatest of them all we understand primacy of conscience.

I mean, seriously if you started talking to cradle Catholics about the source and the soul and blah blah blah yeah you would lose them immediately.

Now, if you come to them and say hey, we’re gonna be feeding the poor, clothing the homeless or building a house for someone they’d be all in.

I was cradle Catholic and recall only getting the rules - things I had to do to get to heaven. No spirituality ever discussed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am cradle Catholic my wife is a convert from Protestantism. (Nothing to do with politics and she's more liberal than me.)

I like converts because one thing most Protestant denominations do well is keep it simple and keep it about Jesus. Sometimes Catholics get distracted with all the smells and bells and the canon law and the history and the debates and forget the MOST important thing is connecting with and conforming our soul to the Source. The easiest way to do that is to understand that the Source came down and took human form to show us the path to eternal life and follow the example He set for us. If someone starts there, you can build outward to infinity. But if you forget the basics, everything falls apart.

I could make various other criticisms of Protestantism but they tend to get that simple part right in their teaching more often than Catholics.

This is a really good example of something cradle Catholic would never say or would be met with a deer in headlights.

Really a cradle catholic only cares about doing unto others, what would Jesus do, feed the poor, be kind. We’re not all about the source whatever the hell that is.

I agree Catholicism (not cradle Catholics) loves the rules and all the other crazy stuff. We aren’t the Council of bishops. We are Cradle Catholics we know all the rules, but don’t get all tied up in them because we know all the loopholes, and we all know all the contradictions.

Also, besides love being the greatest of them all we understand primacy of conscience.

I mean, seriously if you started talking to cradle Catholics about the source and the soul and blah blah blah yeah you would lose them immediately.

Now, if you come to them and say hey, we’re gonna be feeding the poor, clothing the homeless or building a house for someone they’d be all in.

I was cradle Catholic and recall only getting the rules - things I had to do to get to heaven. No spirituality ever discussed.

How often do you teach/preach the rules to friends family, etc.?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The demarcation throws the conversation off.

There are absolutely cradle Catholics who are deep in Bible study (Bible in a Year was a smashing success in Catholic circles), know the catechism well, and generally try to actively live out their faith/the sacraments.

There are also cradle Catholics who are (a) poorly formed in the faith; (b) not particularly active in the faith; or (c) do not identify with it as a faith but rather as a cultural identity. There are other types, too.

On (a) I once had someone in total shock tell me they had never heard of HDOs and they had been educated by Jesuits for 13 years (you don’t say!) and clearly I was making it up.

On (b) a poster up thread mentioned not being particularly active in the Church.

On (c) there is the poster who mentioned Jewish and Catholic interfaith marriages working well; which sort of fits the bill (both ways).

These are all individuals captured by “cradle Catholic” along with everyone else. Just too broad of a term.

Given that converts are more likely to be conservative (not always), and that the swath of cradle Catholics is just way too broad to categorize, I don’t think these comparisons are helpful.

I do think that converts can be caught by surprise by just how big the tent of Catholicism is and the many ways people practice within that tent.

I also think converts can struggle with the mysticism within Catholicism. One of my closest friends is a convert (but his wife is cradle). We’ve taken our families on multiple pilgrimages together to places like Mexico City and Rome and he is still learning to embrace the mysticism. We’re planning on going to Fatima next year and that will be another interesting case.

Nobody said that cradle Catholics don’t read the Bible. They said they don’t go to Bible study.

Also, nobody said that cradle Catholics are all the same what was said is that they have some themes and shared experiences that are the same that make them feel connected to each other.

They could have 80% of their experiences be different but the 20% that is the same that other people don’t experience is what they were bonding over.

I’d be really surprised if a cradle cat was getting all wrapped up in the mysticism of anything. I haven’t been to Fatima yet but most my family has and it’s just like oh wow that was cool. There’s no spiritual awakening or anything.

This is an example of the poor formation category of cradle Catholics. Perhaps the mysticism is not for you. Perhaps it does not speak to you. But the idea that you would be “really surprised if a cradle [Catholic] was getting all wrapped up in the mysticism of anything” reveals a shallow contact with the faithful and a disengagement from the faith. I’m frankly shocked any Catholic who is engaged with the Church would say such a thing. I mean, what do you believe you are receiving in the communion line?

I do think there is a tendency for low engagement/poorly formed cradle Catholics in America to assume that their low engagement/poor formation is the universal experience of Catholics. First, there are literally hundreds of millions of Catholics outside of the USA who embrace the mysticism of Catholicism, especially outside of Europe.

There are also millions of Catholics in the USA who do as well. I know a very highly educated family who is moving their children to a different Catholic school because they sincerely believe the patron saint of the school has cared for their family over the years. There are literally Catholics who in this country wake up every single morning and go to Mass with religious orders that guard and treasure Catholic mysticism.

I was deeply moved by my own pilgrimage to Our Lady of Guadalupe and observe her feast day every year. I also sequester myself on the Feast of the Holy Innocents because I mourn them. And All Souls Day is a feast day we stringently observe in our family.

My 12 year old son still laments over a Cross of the Good Shepherd touched by Pope Francis that he lost a year ago.

Many of the commonalities cradle Catholics experience are cultural in nature. Not necessarily spiritual or driven by the faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The demarcation throws the conversation off.

There are absolutely cradle Catholics who are deep in Bible study (Bible in a Year was a smashing success in Catholic circles), know the catechism well, and generally try to actively live out their faith/the sacraments.

There are also cradle Catholics who are (a) poorly formed in the faith; (b) not particularly active in the faith; or (c) do not identify with it as a faith but rather as a cultural identity. There are other types, too.

On (a) I once had someone in total shock tell me they had never heard of HDOs and they had been educated by Jesuits for 13 years (you don’t say!) and clearly I was making it up.

On (b) a poster up thread mentioned not being particularly active in the Church.

On (c) there is the poster who mentioned Jewish and Catholic interfaith marriages working well; which sort of fits the bill (both ways).

These are all individuals captured by “cradle Catholic” along with everyone else. Just too broad of a term.

Given that converts are more likely to be conservative (not always), and that the swath of cradle Catholics is just way too broad to categorize, I don’t think these comparisons are helpful.

I do think that converts can be caught by surprise by just how big the tent of Catholicism is and the many ways people practice within that tent.

I also think converts can struggle with the mysticism within Catholicism. One of my closest friends is a convert (but his wife is cradle). We’ve taken our families on multiple pilgrimages together to places like Mexico City and Rome and he is still learning to embrace the mysticism. We’re planning on going to Fatima next year and that will be another interesting case.

Nobody said that cradle Catholics don’t read the Bible. They said they don’t go to Bible study.

Also, nobody said that cradle Catholics are all the same what was said is that they have some themes and shared experiences that are the same that make them feel connected to each other.

They could have 80% of their experiences be different but the 20% that is the same that other people don’t experience is what they were bonding over.

I’d be really surprised if a cradle cat was getting all wrapped up in the mysticism of anything. I haven’t been to Fatima yet but most my family has and it’s just like oh wow that was cool. There’s no spiritual awakening or anything.

This is an example of the poor formation category of cradle Catholics. Perhaps the mysticism is not for you. Perhaps it does not speak to you. But the idea that you would be “really surprised if a cradle [Catholic] was getting all wrapped up in the mysticism of anything” reveals a shallow contact with the faithful and a disengagement from the faith. I’m frankly shocked any Catholic who is engaged with the Church would say such a thing. I mean, what do you believe you are receiving in the communion line?

I do think there is a tendency for low engagement/poorly formed cradle Catholics in America to assume that their low engagement/poor formation is the universal experience of Catholics. First, there are literally hundreds of millions of Catholics outside of the USA who embrace the mysticism of Catholicism, especially outside of Europe.

There are also millions of Catholics in the USA who do as well. I know a very highly educated family who is moving their children to a different Catholic school because they sincerely believe the patron saint of the school has cared for their family over the years. There are literally Catholics who in this country wake up every single morning and go to Mass with religious orders that guard and treasure Catholic mysticism.

I was deeply moved by my own pilgrimage to Our Lady of Guadalupe and observe her feast day every year. I also sequester myself on the Feast of the Holy Innocents because I mourn them. And All Souls Day is a feast day we stringently observe in our family.

My 12 year old son still laments over a Cross of the Good Shepherd touched by Pope Francis that he lost a year ago.

Many of the commonalities cradle Catholics experience are cultural in nature. Not necessarily spiritual or driven by the faith.

Another difference between cradle Catholics and converts is just how incredibly serious converts are about telling everybody how great they are at being Christian.

And cradle Catholics just don’t care to go explain to everybody all the Catholic things they do.

I mean, you continue to try to compare and contrast and say who is better and who’s not better and you lack any sense of humor… which clearly shows you’re not a cradle catholic

You need to say seven Hail Mary and two our fathers as penance.

[Anonymous]

Here is a perfect example of something cradle. Catholics live and breathe.

Francis on Proselytism

A striking illustration of Francis’s attitude toward proselytism is found in a recent address he gave to a group of catechists:

Remember what Benedict XVI said: “The Church does not grow by proselytizing; she grows by attracting others.”

And what attracts is our witness. Being a catechist means witnessing to the faith, being consistent in our personal life. This is not easy!

We help, we lead others to Jesus with our words and our lives, with our witness. I like to recall what Saint Francis of Assisi used to say to his friars: “Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a lot of discussion online about the difference between cradle Catholics and converts and the difference in just being seeped in the culture of being catholic and converting and trying to learn from a book.

Anybody else following this?

Many explain it much better than I can. As a multigenerational cradle Catholics I feel like it’s finally being explained in a way I never could.

I could see many returning to being more active if we could just connect with more cradle Catholics.

can you provide some links? I have not noticed any discussion, though it does interest me. I am a convert and generally find that I have a lot of trouble connecting with cradle Catholics. I don't know any of the cultural stuff they know, and they generally lack much real knowledge of theology.

If you go to Instagram or TikTok and just search on cradle Catholic, you’ll get a bunch of posts.

Many of the posts are tongue in cheek because that sort of how cradle Catholics talk about religion. It’s literally like being Italian like you can’t explain what it’s like to be Italian. You just are Italian.

Cradle Catholics are from soup to nuts. Every little bit of our life is catholic..

My grandmother would say, Jesus, Mary and Joseph every time something happened. Every time I scrape my knee, they would say offered up as a sacrifice to God. These are just teeny tiny examples of how Catholicism permeated my life.

They also talk about converts really know the “Bible”, but they don’t know Catholicism, which would be the study of the catechism or Cannon Law or understanding Humanea vitae or what happened in Vatican 2 or each iteration of the translation of the Bible like the 1946 translation of the Bible would be something that a cradle Catholic would know but maybe a convert wouldn’t know

They talk about how converts study the Bible, which is something Catholics do not specifically do. We don’t really do Bible study.

Converts often don’t really understand Saints or the role of Mary in the church because they come from religions where they have a personal relationship with God. Or they come from a religion where all you have to do is believe Jesus is your Lord and your savior to be saved and Catholics really have to go through a maze of rules and life choices to get to heaven.

In my experience, converts know more than cradle catholics because they actually study the religion as adults.

That is exactly what the posts are talking about. You understand more about the Bible but less about being catholic.

Like studying a language and have better grammar, but you can’t really go to the community and talk to them.

No, converts know more about Catholic theology, not the Bible.

Cradle Catholics who were catechized in the 70s and beyond got very poor education in Catholicism, in general.