are there fewer smarter students in Northern Virginia now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

At my high school, plenty of students took AP Calculus in the 1970’s, the advanced kids took two years of Calculus. I graduated in 1982.

Same, although I graduated in 97 and the smart kids took BC Calc, not two years of calc.

FWIW, my parents are boomers (actually born in 45, too early to be boomers) and took calculus in high school. Went to college on full-ride merit scholarship, so I don't think it was too common then.

I'm the original quoted poster. Big difference between '97 and say '78. I graduated in '02 and took through Multivar in high school, and there were plenty of FCPS kids, even those not at TJ, who did the same.

Sure, I realize that, which is why I included my parents as well, who graduated in '63 and took calc in high school.

Fair.

If people want to look at another data point, just look at how NAEP scores have only gone up between the 80s and fairly recently, when the whole country freaked out because they started going down.

Educational attainment has been growing for decades...until it wasn't.

Agree. The Flynn effect says that countries' IQ increases over time, which it has, until it stopped and started going down in the US. It has also started to do the same in some European countries, and they are very concerned. (So are we, but we hide it better.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

This wiki page has some nice explanation for why it's ok that IQ is decreasing in developed countries. Nothing to do with whole language LA or screens or lack of resilience, of course not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

At my high school, plenty of students took AP Calculus in the 1970’s, the advanced kids took two years of Calculus. I graduated in 1982.

Same, although I graduated in 97 and the smart kids took BC Calc, not two years of calc.

FWIW, my parents are boomers (actually born in 45, too early to be boomers) and took calculus in high school. Went to college on full-ride merit scholarship, so I don't think it was too common then.

I'm the original quoted poster. Big difference between '97 and say '78. I graduated in '02 and took through Multivar in high school, and there were plenty of FCPS kids, even those not at TJ, who did the same.

Sure, I realize that, which is why I included my parents as well, who graduated in '63 and took calc in high school.

Fair.

If people want to look at another data point, just look at how NAEP scores have only gone up between the 80s and fairly recently, when the whole country freaked out because they started going down.

Educational attainment has been growing for decades...until it wasn't.

This wiki page has some nice explanation for why it's ok that IQ is decreasing in developed countries. Nothing to do with whole language LA or screens or lack of resilience, of course not.

Cannot tell if this part is serious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

At my high school, plenty of students took AP Calculus in the 1970’s, the advanced kids took two years of Calculus. I graduated in 1982.

Where was this?

suburban Boston

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

My children today are receiving a much higher quality education than I did from fcps back in the '80s. I think this faux nostalgia it's about a place that never existed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

My children today are receiving a much higher quality education than I did from fcps back in the '80s. I think this faux nostalgia it's about a place that never existed.

Well mine are receiving a worse education than I did in the '90s and '00s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

My children today are receiving a much higher quality education than I did from fcps back in the '80s. I think this faux nostalgia it's about a place that never existed.

Well mine are receiving a worse education than I did in the '90s and '00s.

I think the reason mine are doing so much is better is because we prioritize education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

At my high school, plenty of students took AP Calculus in the 1970’s, the advanced kids took two years of Calculus. I graduated in 1982.

Same, although I graduated in 97 and the smart kids took BC Calc, not two years of calc.

FWIW, my parents are boomers (actually born in 45, too early to be boomers) and took calculus in high school. Went to college on full-ride merit scholarship, so I don't think it was too common then.

I'm the original quoted poster. Big difference between '97 and say '78. I graduated in '02 and took through Multivar in high school, and there were plenty of FCPS kids, even those not at TJ, who did the same.

Sure, I realize that, which is why I included my parents as well, who graduated in '63 and took calc in high school.

Fair.

If people want to look at another data point, just look at how NAEP scores have only gone up between the 80s and fairly recently, when the whole country freaked out because they started going down.

Educational attainment has been growing for decades...until it wasn't.

This wiki page has some nice explanation for why it's ok that IQ is decreasing in developed countries. Nothing to do with whole language LA or screens or lack of resilience, of course not.

Cannot tell if this part is serious.

Just look at our political parties. De-evolution is real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

My children today are receiving a much higher quality education than I did from fcps back in the '80s. I think this faux nostalgia it's about a place that never existed.

Well mine are receiving a worse education than I did in the '90s and '00s.

I think the reason mine are doing so much is better is because we prioritize education.

And your parents didn't?

I think education is a mixed bag. We are definitely doing somethings better and some things worse.

In general I think where politics get involved we are doing things worse. It happens from both sides.

The left want to censor books like Huckleberry Finn
The right wants to ban books that have any gay stuff in it..
The left wants to reduce the emphasis on math.
The right wants to rewrite history.
The left wants to eliminate measures of merit so we can pretend everyone is about the same.
The right wants to ignore the reasons why differences may exist.

You may not agree with all of those but if you only agree with the criticisms of the left or only criticisms of the right then you're probably not very objective about the issue of how politics has infiltrated education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

My children today are receiving a much higher quality education than I did from fcps back in the '80s. I think this faux nostalgia it's about a place that never existed.

Well mine are receiving a worse education than I did in the '90s and '00s.

I think the reason mine are doing so much is better is because we prioritize education.

And your parents didn't?

I think education is a mixed bag. We are definitely doing somethings better and some things worse.

In general I think where politics get involved we are doing things worse. It happens from both sides.

The left want to censor books like Huckleberry Finn
The right wants to ban books that have any gay stuff in it..
The left wants to reduce the emphasis on math.
The right wants to rewrite history.
The left wants to eliminate measures of merit so we can pretend everyone is about the same.
The right wants to ignore the reasons why differences may exist.

You may not agree with all of those but if you only agree with the criticisms of the left or only criticisms of the right then you're probably not very objective about the issue of how politics has infiltrated education.

False equivalence.

The left want to censor books like Huckleberry Finn
The right wants to ban books that have any gay stuff in it..
Censor is not the same as banning. Not making mandatory reading is not the same as removing a random book in the library.

The left wants to reduce the emphasis on math.
The right wants to rewrite history.
The left didn't want to rewrite the math to make 2+2=5, did they? What is "rewrite history"?

The left wants to eliminate measures of merit so we can pretend everyone is about the same.
The right wants to ignore the reasons why differences may exist.
Affirmative action is not elimination of merit. Please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

My children today are receiving a much higher quality education than I did from fcps back in the '80s. I think this faux nostalgia it's about a place that never existed.

Well mine are receiving a worse education than I did in the '90s and '00s.

I think the reason mine are doing so much is better is because we prioritize education.

And your parents didn't?

I think education is a mixed bag. We are definitely doing somethings better and some things worse.

In general I think where politics get involved we are doing things worse. It happens from both sides.

The left want to censor books like Huckleberry Finn
The right wants to ban books that have any gay stuff in it..
The left wants to reduce the emphasis on math.
The right wants to rewrite history.
The left wants to eliminate measures of merit so we can pretend everyone is about the same.
The right wants to ignore the reasons why differences may exist.

You may not agree with all of those but if you only agree with the criticisms of the left or only criticisms of the right then you're probably not very objective about the issue of how politics has infiltrated education.

False equivalence.

The left want to censor books like Huckleberry Finn
The right wants to ban books that have any gay stuff in it..
Censor is not the same as banning. Not making mandatory reading is not the same as removing a random book in the library.

The left wants to reduce the emphasis on math.
The right wants to rewrite history.
The left didn't want to rewrite the math to make 2+2=5, did they? What is "rewrite history"?

The left wants to eliminate measures of merit so we can pretend everyone is about the same.
The right wants to ignore the reasons why differences may exist.
Affirmative action is not elimination of merit. Please.

DP. I'm sorry, but removing a book from an elementary or middle school library is also not banning. Can you still get it in the FCPL system? Can you still purchase it? Then it's not banned. Tired of people throwing around words that mean something wrongly until those words become floating signifiers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

My children today are receiving a much higher quality education than I did from fcps back in the '80s. I think this faux nostalgia it's about a place that never existed.

Well mine are receiving a worse education than I did in the '90s and '00s.

I think the reason mine are doing so much is better is because we prioritize education.

And your parents didn't?

I think education is a mixed bag. We are definitely doing somethings better and some things worse.

In general I think where politics get involved we are doing things worse. It happens from both sides.

The left want to censor books like Huckleberry Finn
The right wants to ban books that have any gay stuff in it..
The left wants to reduce the emphasis on math.
The right wants to rewrite history.
The left wants to eliminate measures of merit so we can pretend everyone is about the same.
The right wants to ignore the reasons why differences may exist.

You may not agree with all of those but if you only agree with the criticisms of the left or only criticisms of the right then you're probably not very objective about the issue of how politics has infiltrated education.

The right wants to censor books including Huckleberry Finn. This has always been true. Please try and get your facts straight and stop pushing this false equivalence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Due to Covid and its effects, do we just have fewer kids who can do advanced work? Or is it something else?

Covid has its impact but the whole education system is failing. Looking at what and how teachers teach. YouTube videos during class( no real person teaches), so called projects (putting kids into group discussions then the teacher surf and chats with smart phone.), encouraging self study so teacher doesn’t comment on paper, give out solutions to homework questions so no need to grade, etc. Lazy, ignorant, Unknowledgeable teachers are everywhere.

+1 The quality of teaching has gone done. Too much reliance on videos, Lexia, Mathspace, death by Google slides, …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Due to Covid and its effects, do we just have fewer kids who can do advanced work? Or is it something else?

Covid has its impact but the whole education system is failing. Looking at what and how teachers teach. YouTube videos during class( no real person teaches), so called projects (putting kids into group discussions then the teacher surf and chats with smart phone.), encouraging self study so teacher doesn’t comment on paper, give out solutions to homework questions so no need to grade, etc. Lazy, ignorant, Unknowledgeable teachers are everywhere.

+1 The quality of teaching has gone done. Too much reliance on videos, Lexia, Mathspace, death by Google slides, …

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Due to Covid and its effects, do we just have fewer kids who can do advanced work? Or is it something else?

Covid has its impact but the whole education system is failing. Looking at what and how teachers teach. YouTube videos during class( no real person teaches), so called projects (putting kids into group discussions then the teacher surf and chats with smart phone.), encouraging self study so teacher doesn’t comment on paper, give out solutions to homework questions so no need to grade, etc. Lazy, ignorant, Unknowledgeable teachers are everywhere.

+1 The quality of teaching has gone done. Too much reliance on videos, Lexia, Mathspace, death by Google slides, …

Weird my kids seem to be getting a much better education than I did at a top -rated FCPS school 20 years ago. Many people just like to pretend things were different in the past. They were worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

My children today are receiving a much higher quality education than I did from fcps back in the '80s. I think this faux nostalgia it's about a place that never existed.

Well mine are receiving a worse education than I did in the '90s and '00s.

I think the reason mine are doing so much is better is because we prioritize education.

And your parents didn't?

I think education is a mixed bag. We are definitely doing somethings better and some things worse.

In general I think where politics get involved we are doing things worse. It happens from both sides.

The left want to censor books like Huckleberry Finn
The right wants to ban books that have any gay stuff in it..
The left wants to reduce the emphasis on math.
The right wants to rewrite history.
The left wants to eliminate measures of merit so we can pretend everyone is about the same.
The right wants to ignore the reasons why differences may exist.

You may not agree with all of those but if you only agree with the criticisms of the left or only criticisms of the right then you're probably not very objective about the issue of how politics has infiltrated education.

False equivalence.

The left want to censor books like Huckleberry Finn
The right wants to ban books that have any gay stuff in it..
Censor is not the same as banning. Not making mandatory reading is not the same as removing a random book in the library.

The left wants to reduce the emphasis on math.
The right wants to rewrite history.
The left didn't want to rewrite the math to make 2+2=5, did they? What is "rewrite history"?

The left wants to eliminate measures of merit so we can pretend everyone is about the same.
The right wants to ignore the reasons why differences may exist.
Affirmative action is not elimination of merit. Please.

DP. I'm sorry, but removing a book from an elementary or middle school library is also not banning. Can you still get it in the FCPL system? Can you still purchase it? Then it's not banned. Tired of people throwing around words that mean something wrongly until those words become floating signifiers.

I wasn't trolling but I knew people from both sides would get mad and say that only my criticisms of the other side are valid while criticisms of their side are not valid because of reasons.

This isn't false equivalence.

The left is just as culpable if in reducing the quality of education as the right. If you've never heard the arguments for why math is racist then there is a good chance you are just ignoring all the stupid sht coming from the left and getting laser focused on all the stupid sht coming from the right. If you don't think reducing standards to disguise racial disparities isn't a reduction of standards then you don't really care about standards where social justice is involved. Affirmative action is not just anti-merit, it is racist. The left wants to eliminate things like testing and math because it makes it difficult to justify the profound disparities in objective measures of merit.

And whether you ban a book statewide or ban it from schools, you are banning it. It's not book-burning but you are telling us that we cannot have certain books in public schools. If we can have a book where a boy kisses a girl, we can have a book where a boy kisses a boy, unless you want to outlaw homosexuality you cannot protect your children from the ghey. If we can't have a book where a girl has oral sex with a boy then we can't have a book where a boy has oral sex with a boy, this is something children don't need exposure to. This seems fair to me but YMMV.

Once you remove trump from the equation, both sides are doing it seems like a fair assessment to me.