are there fewer smarter students in Northern Virginia now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Due to Covid and its effects, do we just have fewer kids who can do advanced work? Or is it something else?

Covid has its impact but the whole education system is failing. Looking at what and how teachers teach. YouTube videos during class( no real person teaches), so called projects (putting kids into group discussions then the teacher surf and chats with smart phone.), encouraging self study so teacher doesn’t comment on paper, give out solutions to homework questions so no need to grade, etc. Lazy, ignorant, Unknowledgeable teachers are everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's prompting the premise of the question?

Covid hurt a lot of students academically so may be we are seeing fewer students capable of high level work. The real estate has skyrocketed too so may be more families are moving elsewhere.

That’s not what pp meant. She meant what is the basis for OPs assertion that there are fewer smart kids in nova capable of doing advanced work. OP made an assertion without any facts, data or even anecdotes.

Northern Virginia in general had fewer NMSFs than in the past - many fewer at TJ making up most of the difference without a big enough corresponding bump at other schools. I can't remember if anyone did the work to factor in privates as well as just other area publics. So it's quite possible that's related and it is an actual real data point as opposed to a floating assertion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Due to Covid and its effects, do we just have fewer kids who can do advanced work? Or is it something else?

Covid has its impact but the whole education system is failing. Looking at what and how teachers teach. YouTube videos during class( no real person teaches), so called projects (putting kids into group discussions then the teacher surf and chats with smart phone.), encouraging self study so teacher doesn’t comment on paper, give out solutions to homework questions so no need to grade, etc. Lazy, ignorant, Unknowledgeable teachers are everywhere.

+1. As I mentioned in my first reply, the terrible educational fads our area districts have embraced wholeheartedly are a factor. Covid just accelerated existing bad trends.

I wouldn't blame the teachers though. They were told all these really bad pedagogical practices such as project based learning, over-reliance on ed tech, balanced literacy, and the like were best practices. They trusted their own professors! It's the people at the top who we should blame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's prompting the premise of the question?

Covid hurt a lot of students academically so may be we are seeing fewer students capable of high level work. The real estate has skyrocketed too so may be more families are moving elsewhere.

That’s not what pp meant. She meant what is the basis for OPs assertion that there are fewer smart kids in nova capable of doing advanced work. OP made an assertion without any facts, data or even anecdotes.

Northern Virginia in general had fewer NMSFs than in the past - many fewer at TJ making up most of the difference without a big enough corresponding bump at other schools. I can't remember if anyone did the work to factor in privates as well as just other area publics. So it's quite possible that's related and it is an actual real data point as opposed to a floating assertion.

The year before last was a strange blip with a lower cutoff and a larger number of NMSFs, including a large number from TJ. Last year, the cutoff was higher, back to normal.

Look at trends, not single data points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's prompting the premise of the question?

Stir the pot. Election is in less than 2 weeks.
Some thread already locked, needs to create another title, with basically the same topic.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's prompting the premise of the question?

Covid hurt a lot of students academically so may be we are seeing fewer students capable of high level work. The real estate has skyrocketed too so may be more families are moving elsewhere.

That’s not what pp meant. She meant what is the basis for OPs assertion that there are fewer smart kids in nova capable of doing advanced work. OP made an assertion without any facts, data or even anecdotes.

Northern Virginia in general had fewer NMSFs than in the past - many fewer at TJ making up most of the difference without a big enough corresponding bump at other schools. I can't remember if anyone did the work to factor in privates as well as just other area publics. So it's quite possible that's related and it is an actual real data point as opposed to a floating assertion.

The year before last was a strange blip with a lower cutoff and a larger number of NMSFs, including a large number from TJ. Last year, the cutoff was higher, back to normal.

Look at trends, not single data points.

The trend is still lower?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

At my high school, plenty of students took AP Calculus in the 1970’s, the advanced kids took two years of Calculus. I graduated in 1982.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

At my high school, plenty of students took AP Calculus in the 1970’s, the advanced kids took two years of Calculus. I graduated in 1982.

Maybe it's just where my parents are from then, because they both have vehemently assured me that it wasn't normal. And my dad worked in STEM for his entire career.

[Anonymous]

Yes, very much so!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

At my high school, plenty of students took AP Calculus in the 1970’s, the advanced kids took two years of Calculus. I graduated in 1982.

Where was this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

At my high school, plenty of students took AP Calculus in the 1970’s, the advanced kids took two years of Calculus. I graduated in 1982.

Same, although I graduated in 97 and the smart kids took BC Calc, not two years of calc.

FWIW, my parents are boomers (actually born in 45, too early to be boomers) and took calculus in high school. Went to college on full-ride merit scholarship, so I don't think it was too common then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

At my high school, plenty of students took AP Calculus in the 1970’s, the advanced kids took two years of Calculus. I graduated in 1982.

Same, although I graduated in 97 and the smart kids took BC Calc, not two years of calc.

FWIW, my parents are boomers (actually born in 45, too early to be boomers) and took calculus in high school. Went to college on full-ride merit scholarship, so I don't think it was too common then.

I'm the original quoted poster. Big difference between '97 and say '78. I graduated in '02 and took through Multivar in high school, and there were plenty of FCPS kids, even those not at TJ, who did the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

At my high school, plenty of students took AP Calculus in the 1970’s, the advanced kids took two years of Calculus. I graduated in 1982.

Same, although I graduated in 97 and the smart kids took BC Calc, not two years of calc.

FWIW, my parents are boomers (actually born in 45, too early to be boomers) and took calculus in high school. Went to college on full-ride merit scholarship, so I don't think it was too common then.

I'm the original quoted poster. Big difference between '97 and say '78. I graduated in '02 and took through Multivar in high school, and there were plenty of FCPS kids, even those not at TJ, who did the same.

Sure, I realize that, which is why I included my parents as well, who graduated in '63 and took calc in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well.. send like fewer smart parents. Let me explain...

Covid impact every single student. Not just the smart ones. By your argument, covid made kids dumber. So...it every student is bumped down a smart peg or two due to covid, there should be the same amount of smart kids as before. It's all relative.

Not every student, though. Mine were back in school August 2020. Never had remote schooling. I'm sure they're ahead of others who had less in-person schooling.

- NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our entire educational system has been dumbing things down over the past few decades. Lucy Calkins, an overreaction against homework (sure, extra work for it's own sake is not the same as rigor, but you can't have rigor without practice), and other pedagogical errors are showing their impacts at older grades.

In addition there are simply more kids with IEPs, 504s, behavioral issues, who are ESOL, and the like. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but all of it takes time from teachers that could otherwise be used on educating.

But overall - think back 70 years. No one, and I do mean no one, was taking Calculus in your average public high school. In FCPS it's quite normal for many kids to take college level calculus. For decades our bar for what advanced looks like has gone up. Maybe it was always just due for a little regression?

At my high school, plenty of students took AP Calculus in the 1970’s, the advanced kids took two years of Calculus. I graduated in 1982.

Same, although I graduated in 97 and the smart kids took BC Calc, not two years of calc.

FWIW, my parents are boomers (actually born in 45, too early to be boomers) and took calculus in high school. Went to college on full-ride merit scholarship, so I don't think it was too common then.

I'm the original quoted poster. Big difference between '97 and say '78. I graduated in '02 and took through Multivar in high school, and there were plenty of FCPS kids, even those not at TJ, who did the same.

Sure, I realize that, which is why I included my parents as well, who graduated in '63 and took calc in high school.

Fair.

If people want to look at another data point, just look at how NAEP scores have only gone up between the 80s and fairly recently, when the whole country freaked out because they started going down.

Educational attainment has been growing for decades...until it wasn't.