NYT The Daily: The Parents Aren't All Right

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

But what parent really wants to give up everything to stay home cooking and cleaning? I know some people are happy to do it, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for good parenting.

Well most parents who work also have to cook and clean for themselves. If "giving up everything" means giving up the stress of an intense work schedule + squeezing household chores in after work, lots of people would sign up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

But what parent really wants to give up everything to stay home cooking and cleaning? I know some people are happy to do it, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for good parenting.

Why are you devaluing SAH parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

But what parent really wants to give up everything to stay home cooking and cleaning? I know some people are happy to do it, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for good parenting.

Why are you devaluing SAH parents?

Because everything a SAH parent has all day to do still needs to be done by working parents, just without a lot less tome to actually do it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

But what parent really wants to give up everything to stay home cooking and cleaning? I know some people are happy to do it, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for good parenting.

Why are you devaluing SAH parents?

Because everything a SAH parent has all day to do still needs to be done by working parents, just without a lot less tome to actually do it

You have more money to pay to outsource so no I don’t think your comparison works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

But what parent really wants to give up everything to stay home cooking and cleaning? I know some people are happy to do it, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for good parenting.

Why are you devaluing SAH parents?

Because everything a SAH parent has all day to do still needs to be done by working parents, just without a lot less tome to actually do it

You have more money to pay to outsource so no I don’t think your comparison works.

Why are you assuming people can afford to outsource everything?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

But what parent really wants to give up everything to stay home cooking and cleaning? I know some people are happy to do it, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for good parenting.

Why are you devaluing SAH parents?

I don't think that PP was devaluing SAH parents at all. Just saying that good parents can WOH as well as SAH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

It's true that everything is crazy expensive now, and things are easier with a SAHM, but activities were also more scaled back 60 years ago. There were no travel sports leagues or 3x week practice schedule for 7 year olds. My dad played baseball with his friends in the neighborhood after school. My dad's one extracurricular was boy scouts. Mom took piano, and that was her one activity apart from summer camp. Kids had more freedom and could roam around the neighborhood, walk to and from school, etc without adult supervision. Just eliminating pick up and drop offs would feel immensely freeing for most of today's parents.

I let my kids roam around the neighborhood and park with friends. It really aggravates some other moms who text "letting me know". I really appreciate the extra eyes but they are so close, with friends and not getting into trouble, let them be.
What is stressful is the expectation from some parents that we keep them in or supervised the way they do, outsource the way they do and choose classes or extracurriculars the way they do. I thought that kind of behavior would end after babies (formula, sleep training, schedules, swaddling...) but it keeps going well into college choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen to yesterday's episode on NAFTA. I don't think it's a coincidence that after NAFTA is when parenting expectations began skyrocketing.

There aren't enough good jobs for everyone. That's what it's all really about.

I predict the US is headed in the same direction as South Korea.

I totally agree with this. Ross Perot and "giant sucking sound of jobs being pulled out of this country" lives rent free in my head.

This is the answer. Parents could chill in the past knowing that even if their kids did poorly in school they'd have a chance to get it together, learn a trade and have a middle class life. That expectation is gone. No one on my mom's side of the family went to college and they all still managed to buy new houses, new cars, take a vacation every year and save plenty for retirement.
Now it's a struggle from birth to ensure that your child will be middle class. The only parents who aren't worried are like the Sephora mom raising her daughter to be a sugar baby. The rest of us are stressed.

It's not about jobs; it that the working class pensions are gone for those jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

But what parent really wants to give up everything to stay home cooking and cleaning? I know some people are happy to do it, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for good parenting.

Why are you devaluing SAH parents?

Because everything a SAH parent has all day to do still needs to be done by working parents, just without a lot less tome to actually do it

Factually incorrect obviously, or you wouldn't be spending money on other people doing those things.

[Anonymous]

I think the article missed the mark when it failed to talk about affordable, quality childcare.

What was my first parenting challenge? Trying to get on daycare waitlists when I was 4 minutes pregnant and stressing whether I'd get a spot before I had to go back to work.

What are my absolute most stressful days? Those when my kid can't go to daycare/school and my backup care falls through and my spouse and I both have meetings.

What are my most stressful things to schedule? Summer camps that fit with my work schedule, that are affordable, that my kids don't hate, and where I feel they'll be safe.

What are the biggest disruption to feeling on top of my work and personal schedule? All the time random days off of school and early releases, each of which requires me to arrange separate childcare.

Why don't I go on Saturday night dates with my spouse more often? Finding and scheduling a babysitter is a giant pain and they often fall through.

Really, so so much of modern parenting stress revolves around insufficient childcare.

Next on my list of stressful things are elementary schools that refuse to accommodate working parents.
What is making a huge mess of my work week this week? A parent teacher conferences scheduled by the school without my input at 1 PM on a Thursday, at a time when I'm supposed to be presenting to leadership and the school tells me I can't reschedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen to yesterday's episode on NAFTA. I don't think it's a coincidence that after NAFTA is when parenting expectations began skyrocketing.

There aren't enough good jobs for everyone. That's what it's all really about.

I predict the US is headed in the same direction as South Korea.

I totally agree with this. Ross Perot and "giant sucking sound of jobs being pulled out of this country" lives rent free in my head.

This is the answer. Parents could chill in the past knowing that even if their kids did poorly in school they'd have a chance to get it together, learn a trade and have a middle class life. That expectation is gone. No one on my mom's side of the family went to college and they all still managed to buy new houses, new cars, take a vacation every year and save plenty for retirement.
Now it's a struggle from birth to ensure that your child will be middle class. The only parents who aren't worried are like the Sephora mom raising her daughter to be a sugar baby. The rest of us are stressed.

It's not about jobs; it that the working class pensions are gone for those jobs.

No, it's about the jobs. My mother graduated from high school with mediocre grades (I saw her report card and she failed algebra senior year), started as a secretary and ended up managing a department. The exact same job now requires an MBA. She didn't get a pension as she quit when she had kids later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

But what parent really wants to give up everything to stay home cooking and cleaning? I know some people are happy to do it, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for good parenting.

Why are you devaluing SAH parents?

I don't think that PP was devaluing SAH parents at all. Just saying that good parents can WOH as well as SAH.

Let me quote the person who is admitting to devaluing SAH:

“Because everything a SAH parent has all day to do still needs to be done by working parents, just without a lot less tome to actually do it”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

But what parent really wants to give up everything to stay home cooking and cleaning? I know some people are happy to do it, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for good parenting.

Why are you devaluing SAH parents?

I don't think that PP was devaluing SAH parents at all. Just saying that good parents can WOH as well as SAH.

Let me quote the person who is admitting to devaluing SAH:

“Because everything a SAH parent has all day to do still needs to be done by working parents, just without a lot less tome to actually do it”

No guarantee that was 2nd quoted PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

It's true that everything is crazy expensive now, and things are easier with a SAHM, but activities were also more scaled back 60 years ago. There were no travel sports leagues or 3x week practice schedule for 7 year olds. My dad played baseball with his friends in the neighborhood after school. My dad's one extracurricular was boy scouts. Mom took piano, and that was her one activity apart from summer camp. Kids had more freedom and could roam around the neighborhood, walk to and from school, etc without adult supervision. Just eliminating pick up and drop offs would feel immensely freeing for most of today's parents.

I let my kids roam around the neighborhood and park with friends. It really aggravates some other moms who text "letting me know". I really appreciate the extra eyes but they are so close, with friends and not getting into trouble, let them be.
What is stressful is the expectation from some parents that we keep them in or supervised the way they do, outsource the way they do and choose classes or extracurriculars the way they do. I thought that kind of behavior would end after babies (formula, sleep training, schedules, swaddling...) but it keeps going well into college choices.

Yeah it never ends. My kids go to a parochial school with a wide range of incomes and EVERYONE is a helicopter mom. Currently my phone is blowing up about a test that a lot of kids bombed and talking about contacting admin. I had to cut in with "Does it REALLY matter if our kids get a poor grade in 5th grade science? Is one tough teacher going to kill them?" Yes. Because they have to get into Catholic high school or their lives will be over!
And they can't just take dance lessons once a week or play floor hockey. It has to be a competitive travel team or they won't get a scholarship someday! How many kids are actually getting these scholarships?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is such BS, it’s not about intensive parenting. It’s about having two working parents required to just get by, and then really expensive housing which makes everything else harder to manage and afford. There was a lot easier lifestyle where without intensive parenting, when you had a parent, who was home to take care of everything related to the kids as well as clean and cook.

But what parent really wants to give up everything to stay home cooking and cleaning? I know some people are happy to do it, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for good parenting.

Why are you devaluing SAH parents?

I don't think that PP was devaluing SAH parents at all. Just saying that good parents can WOH as well as SAH.

Let me quote the person who is admitting to devaluing SAH:

“Because everything a SAH parent has all day to do still needs to be done by working parents, just without a lot less tome to actually do it”

I SAH and I don't care what other people think about my choices. I've done the 40 hour work week, and I know what I've given up and what I've gained. My finances are solid, my mental health is better than ever, and my kids are flourishing. To each their own.