Asking AOs for advice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone's kid ever contacted an AO to ask for guidance on submitting test scores? It seems like it really may be school dependent and it is causing a lot of stress figuring it out.

I have talked to several AOs and they will advise on submitting test scores. There is not downside to asking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why sitting for the SATs has become a joke, and I will absolute advise my younger kid not to even bother. You get an excellent score, high 1400s, and the advice is to not submit? It seems like a waste of money and time.

Except more schools go back to test required every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Application Nation advice: depends on school, major and transcript/rigor profile

Sara H generally says if more than 40% of last class admitted TO, then if you are a majority candidate, only submit if over the 50%.

But you are STEM, analysis might be more complicated: you may have to submit though bc those candidates held to higher standard (given how much competition there is), esp if the SAT score discrepancy shows an extraordinarily strong math score.

But even this guidance isn't really that helpful...suppose you are a majority candidate, applying to a school where about 40% of admitted students applied to, and not a STEM major but maybe public health...and your score is in the 25th-50th range. This is my kids profile, by the way. High rigor, 4.0uw/4.4 w, urban public school, top 5%.

What does her guidance suggest doing?

What’s her score?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Application Nation advice: depends on school, major and transcript/rigor profile

Sara H generally says if more than 40% of last class admitted TO, then if you are a majority candidate, only submit if over the 50%.

But you are STEM, analysis might be more complicated: you may have to submit though bc those candidates held to higher standard (given how much competition there is), esp if the SAT score discrepancy shows an extraordinarily strong math score.

But even this guidance isn't really that helpful...suppose you are a majority candidate, applying to a school where about 40% of admitted students applied to, and not a STEM major but maybe public health...and your score is in the 25th-50th range. This is my kids profile, by the way. High rigor, 4.0uw/4.4 w, urban public school, top 5%.

What does her guidance suggest doing?

What’s her score?

I think this is a clear case of don’t submit. Why would a school want sub- 50th percentile scores dragging down their average? They would rather have the kid TO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have any answers but I really feel for kids who have strong test scores for the schools they are applying to if they look at pre-TO scores

Bingo. My DD's score is in the high 1400s, which puts her in the 50-75th range pre-TO for a top choice....but the range has moved about 70 points since then...which puts it at the 25th percentile. The advice they are currently getting from their (private) counselor is to not submit but she is concerned they will assume it is lower.

Would not submit. Also, why hire a private college counselor if you aren’t going to take her advice on stuff like this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Application Nation advice: depends on school, major and transcript/rigor profile

Sara H generally says if more than 40% of last class admitted TO, then if you are a majority candidate, only submit if over the 50%.

But you are STEM, analysis might be more complicated: you may have to submit though bc those candidates held to higher standard (given how much competition there is), esp if the SAT score discrepancy shows an extraordinarily strong math score.

But even this guidance isn't really that helpful...suppose you are a majority candidate, applying to a school where about 40% of admitted students applied to, and not a STEM major but maybe public health...and your score is in the 25th-50th range. This is my kids profile, by the way. High rigor, 4.0uw/4.4 w, urban public school, top 5%.

What does her guidance suggest doing?

What’s her score?

I think this is a clear case of don’t submit. Why would a school want sub- 50th percentile scores dragging down their average? They would rather have the kid TO.

Presumably some schools care less about “dragging down” the advertised range and more about ensuring that the students are prepared to do the work. There’s a lot of grade inflation at my kid’s school and a decent amount of research showing that grades plus scores is a better predictor of performance than grades alone. This is why some schools have returned to test required. But for the TO schools it’s unclear what they want…

[Anonymous]

On the same lines as OP's questions, for a few schools, the advice has been not to submit unless you are over the 50th. But the 50th reported for a given class on the CDS is not the same as the 50th reported elsewhere on the school's website. Which do you use? DC is at 50th according to the CDS but that is 25th on the website (for the corresponding class year). What gives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Application Nation advice: depends on school, major and transcript/rigor profile

Sara H generally says if more than 40% of last class admitted TO, then if you are a majority candidate, only submit if over the 50%.

But you are STEM, analysis might be more complicated: you may have to submit though bc those candidates held to higher standard (given how much competition there is), esp if the SAT score discrepancy shows an extraordinarily strong math score.

But even this guidance isn't really that helpful...suppose you are a majority candidate, applying to a school where about 40% of admitted students applied to, and not a STEM major but maybe public health...and your score is in the 25th-50th range. This is my kids profile, by the way. High rigor, 4.0uw/4.4 w, urban public school, top 5%.

What does her guidance suggest doing?

What’s her score?

I think this is a clear case of don’t submit. Why would a school want sub- 50th percentile scores dragging down their average? They would rather have the kid TO.

Presumably some schools care less about “dragging down” the advertised range and more about ensuring that the students are prepared to do the work. There’s a lot of grade inflation at my kid’s school and a decent amount of research showing that grades plus scores is a better predictor of performance than grades alone. This is why some schools have returned to test required. But for the TO schools it’s unclear what they want…

Again, to me it’s pretty clear. If the school wanted scores to see who is “prepared” they would require them. The schools that are TO have made a different decision, to prioritize a high average score range. They are telling you that is what matters to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Application Nation advice: depends on school, major and transcript/rigor profile

Sara H generally says if more than 40% of last class admitted TO, then if you are a majority candidate, only submit if over the 50%.

But you are STEM, analysis might be more complicated: you may have to submit though bc those candidates held to higher standard (given how much competition there is), esp if the SAT score discrepancy shows an extraordinarily strong math score.

But even this guidance isn't really that helpful...suppose you are a majority candidate, applying to a school where about 40% of admitted students applied to, and not a STEM major but maybe public health...and your score is in the 25th-50th range. This is my kids profile, by the way. High rigor, 4.0uw/4.4 w, urban public school, top 5%.

What does her guidance suggest doing?

What’s her score?

I think this is a clear case of don’t submit. Why would a school want sub- 50th percentile scores dragging down their average? They would rather have the kid TO.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Application Nation advice: depends on school, major and transcript/rigor profile

Sara H generally says if more than 40% of last class admitted TO, then if you are a majority candidate, only submit if over the 50%.

But you are STEM, analysis might be more complicated: you may have to submit though bc those candidates held to higher standard (given how much competition there is), esp if the SAT score discrepancy shows an extraordinarily strong math score.

But even this guidance isn't really that helpful...suppose you are a majority candidate, applying to a school where about 40% of admitted students applied to, and not a STEM major but maybe public health...and your score is in the 25th-50th range. This is my kids profile, by the way. High rigor, 4.0uw/4.4 w, urban public school, top 5%.

What does her guidance suggest doing?

What’s her score?

I think this is a clear case of don’t submit. Why would a school want sub- 50th percentile scores dragging down their average? They would rather have the kid TO.

Presumably some schools care less about “dragging down” the advertised range and more about ensuring that the students are prepared to do the work. There’s a lot of grade inflation at my kid’s school and a decent amount of research showing that grades plus scores is a better predictor of performance than grades alone. This is why some schools have returned to test required. But for the TO schools it’s unclear what they want…

Stop guessing.
Your advice is wrong at a rest optional school.
Your “presumptions” are flawed.
Stop weighing in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Application Nation advice: depends on school, major and transcript/rigor profile

Sara H generally says if more than 40% of last class admitted TO, then if you are a majority candidate, only submit if over the 50%.

But you are STEM, analysis might be more complicated: you may have to submit though bc those candidates held to higher standard (given how much competition there is), esp if the SAT score discrepancy shows an extraordinarily strong math score.

She has also successfully encouraged some clients not to submit a 34, bc averages moved up.

At a true TO school, Admissions officers don’t assume a “low score”, unless the rest of the application is weak - in which case your score was never going to help you anyway

+1

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that the colleges (if there's a history of kids from our HS matriculating there) know how students, say in the top 5% or top 10% of the HS class perform once they get there? And they use that data to evaluate the current applicant pool from the high school?

A lot of schools don't give equal weight to test scores and GPA. GPA (and more importantly rigor and quality of transcript) matter MUCH more than test scores. Same with quality and caliber of HS (does the college have a history of accepting kids from your HS, what GPA (and scores) did they have, what was avg freshman and overall college GPA for those kids). Colleges have SO much data on their hands. They aren't just looking at your kids info when they decide.

You have to decide if the scores make your kids application stronger or weaker in light of ALL of those other factors.

I'm sure they have data on how kids do once they matriculate. Now how this looks or influences future admissions, who knows?
Are admissions officers told "avoid this high school" or "recruit kids from this high school?" or are they given giant spreadsheets of top performing high schools? I don't think any of us know.

Landscape tells them all of this…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why sitting for the SATs has become a joke, and I will absolute advise my younger kid not to even bother. You get an excellent score, high 1400s, and the advice is to not submit? It seems like a waste of money and time.

Except more schools go back to test required every year.

That’s what I thought too, but guess what? Only Ivy and Ivy adjacent and a few southern flagships want it. If you dig around, you will be surprised to see that up to 50% of enrolled students at many selective name-brand institutions didn’t submit scores!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Application Nation advice: depends on school, major and transcript/rigor profile

Sara H generally says if more than 40% of last class admitted TO, then if you are a majority candidate, only submit if over the 50%.

But you are STEM, analysis might be more complicated: you may have to submit though bc those candidates held to higher standard (given how much competition there is), esp if the SAT score discrepancy shows an extraordinarily strong math score.

But even this guidance isn't really that helpful...suppose you are a majority candidate, applying to a school where about 40% of admitted students applied to, and not a STEM major but maybe public health...and your score is in the 25th-50th range. This is my kids profile, by the way. High rigor, 4.0uw/4.4 w, urban public school, top 5%.

What does her guidance suggest doing?

What’s her score?

I think this is a clear case of don’t submit. Why would a school want sub- 50th percentile scores dragging down their average? They would rather have the kid TO.

Presumably some schools care less about “dragging down” the advertised range and more about ensuring that the students are prepared to do the work. There’s a lot of grade inflation at my kid’s school and a decent amount of research showing that grades plus scores is a better predictor of performance than grades alone. This is why some schools have returned to test required. But for the TO schools it’s unclear what they want…

Stop guessing.
Your advice is wrong at a rest optional school.
Your “presumptions” are flawed.
Stop weighing in.

I'm the PP...I wasn't "advising" anyone...I was offering a hypothetical response to a question that someone (maybe you?) posed ....it was the rhetorical tone of your question that seemed obnoxious, given that it is unlikely the person proffering it has no more insight than the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

It’s so stupid don’t submit unless you are at median - every college will be at 1600 if people continue that logic. It’s insane

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Application Nation advice: depends on school, major and transcript/rigor profile

Sara H generally says if more than 40% of last class admitted TO, then if you are a majority candidate, only submit if over the 50%.

But you are STEM, analysis might be more complicated: you may have to submit though bc those candidates held to higher standard (given how much competition there is), esp if the SAT score discrepancy shows an extraordinarily strong math score.

But even this guidance isn't really that helpful...suppose you are a majority candidate, applying to a school where about 40% of admitted students applied to, and not a STEM major but maybe public health...and your score is in the 25th-50th range. This is my kids profile, by the way. High rigor, 4.0uw/4.4 w, urban public school, top 5%.

What does her guidance suggest doing?

What’s her score?

I think this is a clear case of don’t submit. Why would a school want sub- 50th percentile scores dragging down their average? They would rather have the kid TO.

Presumably some schools care less about “dragging down” the advertised range and more about ensuring that the students are prepared to do the work. There’s a lot of grade inflation at my kid’s school and a decent amount of research showing that grades plus scores is a better predictor of performance than grades alone. This is why some schools have returned to test required. But for the TO schools it’s unclear what they want…

Stop guessing.
Your advice is wrong at a rest optional school.
Your “presumptions” are flawed.
Stop weighing in.

DP- Disagree with you. A score marginally below the middle 50% isn’t going to harm the student. In fact, it could stand out positively in a sea of TO applications.