AO Application Review and Rating

[Anonymous]

Does Duke like part time jobs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Northwestern:

They like real genuine kids - little to no exaggeration. AO are focused on:

Intellectual impact: Northwestern isn’t just concerned about learning for learning’s sake (although that’s important, too). They also want to see how you can take your work in the classroom and use it to impact the world around you.

Research: Northwestern wants students who will take advantage of all the research initiatives on campus. They want you to think about (and demonstrate) entrepreneurship, innovation, and a keen eye for research.

Student support and community: Northwestern is big on supporting students and maintaining a strong sense of community. Browsing through information about student life will help you find your “fit.”

While academic preparation is the most important factor overall in the admissions process, this is a weeding out factor, meant to ensure that all of the students at Northwestern are academically prepared for the rigors of college courses. Excelling academically alone is not enough to guarantee acceptance. Northwestern uses a holistic admissions process, and while academics are considered in this, they are not the entirety of what the school is looking for.

Northwestern is interested in “fit,” the idea that a student and a college should be well-suited for each other. That is the students strengths, and what they want to pursue, should line up with what the school is looking for, and what they can offer to the student in turn. Students who are passionate, intellectually curious, and academically driven fit into the idea of Northwestern.

For extracurricular involvement, Northwestern is looking for passionate, focused students, as most other elite universities are. Students who demonstrate considerable talent and aptitude in their own niche as specialists are more likely to stand out and gain acceptance. Students who are good at many things but not great at any one thing have a harder time standing out.

Other big parts of NU's application review process:

Team-Based Reading
During the Early Decision cycle, applications are initially reviewed through a method known as "Team-Based Reading." In this phase, teams of two admissions officers collaboratively review each application file. This approach ensures a comprehensive assessment from multiple perspectives, which helps the admissions team gain a deeper understanding of each applicant's unique context and potential.

Class Shaping
Following the initial review, the process moves into the "Class Shaping" stage. Here, decisions are refined to ensure a diverse class, balancing factors such as academic interests, geographic origin, and other institutional priorities. This stage is crucial for building a well-rounded student body that aligns with Northwestern's values and goals.

Evaluation in School Groups
It is important to note that applications are evaluated in "school groups." This means that your profile will be viewed not only holistically but also in comparison to peers from your own high school. This approach places a strong emphasis on selecting the most challenging courses available and standing out within your specific educational context. Excelling academically and being an active participant in your local community is critical to improving your chances of admission.


How Academic Rigor is Graded at Northwestern
Northwestern evaluates academic rigor on a scale from 1 to 5, with a '1' or '2' typically required for admission:

Academic Rigor
Rating Description How to Achieve[i]
1 Highest Rigor Top 3% of class, 1500+ SAT/33+ ACT, maximizing AP/IB/Honors courses, demonstrated intellectual curiosity through research, high AP exam scores

2 Strong Rigor Competitive class rank, strong SAT/ACT scores, challenging coursework within context of your school
3 Moderate Rigor Solid academic performance, consistent effort in core subjects
4 Below Average Rigor Minimal engagement in challenging coursework
5 Limited Rigor Very limited academic effort

Extracurriculars:
At Northwestern University, extracurricular activities are not just a complement to your academic performance; they are a core part of your application, making up 30% of the overall evaluation. [This is higher than DUKE]

Northwestern assesses extracurricular involvement on a scale from 1 to 5, focusing on leadership and impact. It's essential that your involvement is not merely extensive but meaningful—leadership roles, national awards, or initiatives that have significantly impacted your community are highly valued.

Extracurricular Impact[u]
Rating Description Examples
1 National/International Recognition Olympic athlete, major film/TV roles, national youth orchestra
2 State-Level Achievement State-level music ensemble, Boys/Girls State, all-state athletic team, university-published research
3 Localized Leadership Captain of sports team, Gold Award/Eagle Scout, president of a significant club
4 Consistent Involvement Active member in multiple clubs or organizations for 2+ years
5 No Involvement NA

Thanks! My kid applied to NU and I think he hits a lot of these. His essays, ECs and LOR all focus on personal passion projects and interests that he’s pursued for several years. He’s also got some hooks - NSMF, Hispanic, multiracial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Duke:

So unlike the Ivies, Duke, has a strict numerical point system in which applicants are rated on six distinct criteria, as opposed to the two ratings given by the Ivies, so that when you apply to an Ivy League school, they give you an academic rating and a personal grade, those are the two ratings. When you apply to Duke, they have six different distinct ratings that they give you:

"For applicants to Trinity, applicants are rated on six different criteria, and each criteria is weighted 10 points for a total of 60 points maximum.

- Strength of curriculum (AP courses, etc.) = 10 points
- Grades and class rank = 10 points
- SAT/ACT scores = 10 points
- Extra-curricular achievement with focus on national awards = 10 points
- Essays = 10 points
- Letters of recommendation = 10 points"

And so generally, you wanted your overall composite score for these six different criteria to be over 45 to really have a serious shot of getting in.***

NOTE: Duke no longer giving numerical rating to standardized testing, essays in undergraduate admissions as of this year - so the scoring has changed to a max of 40 points instead of 60.

According to Guttentag, the only categories given numerical ratings now are the four categories that remain: “the strength of a student’s curriculum, their grades in academic courses, their extracurricular activities and the letters of recommendation.” Many people think this makes ECs MUCH MORE IMPORTANT at Duke than other T10s.

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2024/02/duke-university-undergraduate-admissions-changes-numerical-rating-standardized-testing-essays-covid-test-optional-ai-generated-college-consultants

Has anyone heard what this means in reality now that they only rate 4 parts of the application? Are they all weighted equally?

[Anonymous]

I'm shocked ECs are considered so much at Northwestern - up to 30% of the total rating. Where else is it that high?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard (most well known bc of lawsuit):

https://www.collegeadvisor.com/resources/ivy-league-application/

This was eye opening - I can't summarize it well enough.
https://www.kolly.ai/blog/reviewing-my-harvard-admissions-file

Noteworthy nuggets here (Excerpted):

- Therefore, applicants should note that there is truly little difference between getting a 33 or a 36 on the ACT, as both results would yield a 2 in the academic rating.

- Most importantly, notice how a 1 category can be earned with unusual accomplishment in “one or more categories.” This means that being a world-class pianist vs. being a world-class pianist, tennis player, and chess player will yield no difference in this rating category. Simply having big accomplishments in one deeply developed area is enough! Less is more.

- By pursuing a passion project, applicants can boost their extracurricular score by having a unique extracurricular that is “world-class” by virtue of how rare it is. They also show their strong character and personal values to admissions officers because they are taking action on traits such as concern for community, equity, and public-mindedness. In essence, a passion project is proof of your personal character and values.

is this just for Harvard or for other schools to?
Shocked about the rating for 33 and 36 being the SAME?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does Duke like part time jobs?

Wouldn’t all admissions offices?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard (most well known bc of lawsuit):

https://www.collegeadvisor.com/resources/ivy-league-application/

This was eye opening - I can't summarize it well enough.
https://www.kolly.ai/blog/reviewing-my-harvard-admissions-file

Noteworthy nuggets here (Excerpted):

- Therefore, applicants should note that there is truly little difference between getting a 33 or a 36 on the ACT, as both results would yield a 2 in the academic rating.

- Most importantly, notice how a 1 category can be earned with unusual accomplishment in “one or more categories.” This means that being a world-class pianist vs. being a world-class pianist, tennis player, and chess player will yield no difference in this rating category. Simply having big accomplishments in one deeply developed area is enough! Less is more.

- By pursuing a passion project, applicants can boost their extracurricular score by having a unique extracurricular that is “world-class” by virtue of how rare it is. They also show their strong character and personal values to admissions officers because they are taking action on traits such as concern for community, equity, and public-mindedness. In essence, a passion project is proof of your personal character and values.

is this just for Harvard or for other schools to?
Shocked about the rating for 33 and 36 being the SAME?

Obviously, it depends on the rubric. I am familiar with two rubrics as a former faculty member at a T10 and friends with an Ivy AO: 34-36 is rated the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Duke:

So unlike the Ivies, Duke, has a strict numerical point system in which applicants are rated on six distinct criteria, as opposed to the two ratings given by the Ivies, so that when you apply to an Ivy League school, they give you an academic rating and a personal grade, those are the two ratings. When you apply to Duke, they have six different distinct ratings that they give you:

"For applicants to Trinity, applicants are rated on six different criteria, and each criteria is weighted 10 points for a total of 60 points maximum.

- Strength of curriculum (AP courses, etc.) = 10 points
- Grades and class rank = 10 points
- SAT/ACT scores = 10 points
- Extra-curricular achievement with focus on national awards = 10 points
- Essays = 10 points
- Letters of recommendation = 10 points"

And so generally, you wanted your overall composite score for these six different criteria to be over 45 to really have a serious shot of getting in.***

NOTE: Duke no longer giving numerical rating to standardized testing, essays in undergraduate admissions as of this year - so the scoring has changed to a max of 40 points instead of 60.

According to Guttentag, the only categories given numerical ratings now are the four categories that remain: “the strength of a student’s curriculum, their grades in academic courses, their extracurricular activities and the letters of recommendation.” Many people think this makes ECs MUCH MORE IMPORTANT at Duke than other T10s.

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2024/02/duke-university-undergraduate-admissions-changes-numerical-rating-standardized-testing-essays-covid-test-optional-ai-generated-college-consultants

I'm looking ahead at my kid's RD application to Duke and questioning which essays DC chose in the draft application.
Shouldn't the essays be focused more on the ECs or intellectual curiosity/academics (vs. community or identity) given the way the scoring works? OR am I overthinking this?

There are two optional essays - and the choices are:

We want to emphasize that the following questions are optional. Feel free to answer one or two if you believe that doing so will add something meaningful that is not already shared elsewhere in your application. Five optional questions are available – a maximum of 2 can be selected.

1. We believe a wide range of viewpoints, beliefs, and lived experiences are essential to maintaining Duke as a vibrant and meaningful living and learning community. Feel free to share with us anything in this context that might help us better understand you and what you might bring to our community.

2. Tell us about an experience in the past year or two that reflects your imagination, creativity, or intellect.

3. We believe there is benefit in sharing or questioning our beliefs or values; who do you agree with on the big important things, or who do you have your most interesting disagreements with? What are you agreeing or disagreeing about?

4. Duke’s commitment to inclusion and belonging includes sexual orientation, gender identity, and gender expression. Feel free to share with us more about how your identity in this context has meaning for you as an individual or as a member of a community.

5. We recognize that not fully “fitting in” a community or place can sometimes be difficult. Duke values the effort, resilience, and independence that may require. Feel free to share with us circumstances where something about you is different and how that’s influenced your experiences or identity.

[Anonymous]

Awesome that Northwestern cares that you are a child star in a tv movie. I'll start getting those head shots taken now of my third grader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stanford (from reddit):

High school Name/location, GPA as reported on transcript, graduation rate, graduating class size

Your top 3 majors you listed on Stanford app

Any tags on your profile such as DIV, which is diversity, for black, Hispanic, native American. Other tags include first generation college student, recruited athlete, LEG for legacy student if your parents attended Stanford or are Stanford Professor, DON if you are relative of someone who has or is committing to make large (6 to 8 figure) donations to the school.

Your GPA recalculated on 4.0 scale, without freshman year classes. A tag for academic rigor. Most admitted have MD, which is "Most Demanding"

Scores from each of your 2 application reviewers. Scores are from 1 to 6 where 1 is the best, and can also have pluses or minus (i.e. 2-). You are rated on:

Test: The only objective one, just based on SAT/ACT and SAT II. Possibly also AP/IB? By far the easiest to get a 1 in.

HSR: High School Record, I think this is mainly how well-regarded your high school is and how many people it has sent to Stanford historically. Better high school = better score. It might also include things like class rank/GPA not entirely sure.

SUP: Support, How strong were your recommendations from teachers/ counselor/ interviewer? Are you legacy/relative of donor? Are you a recruited athlete? Is a Stanford coach or professor vouching for you?

EC: Extracurriculurs. Standard school clubs count for very little (even with leadership positions), unless you come from poverty/bad area. Things that are unique and/or tie into intended major or you received prestigious awards or press attention for are good.

SPIV: Self-Presentation & Intellectual Vitality. Pretty vague but probably based on your essays, interview rating, and overall application. Pretty sure this is akin to Harvard's "personal rating." Heard they give racial minorities a boost in this area.

Eval: Overall evaluation of your application. Generally I think everyone 2 and above gets admitted, and 2-/3+ are the edge cases.

Interview - The scores the interviewer submitted for you as well as a couple paragraphs they wrote summing up the interview and reviewing you.

You are rated from 1 to 6 on 3 categories: intellectual vitality, depth/commitment, and self presentation/character.

Interviewer will usually discuss your intended major/academic plans, most notable extracurriculars, family background (including where your parents are from), and goals for the future, how easy you are to talk to.

Reader 1 and Reader 2 Reviews:

Repeat of the reviewer scores from above

Also includes 2 - 4 sentences of comments from each reader.

Will mention the top 2 or 3 extracurriculars, 2 words each summarizing your best 2 - 3 essays, intended major, leadership, awards, your family's background, and what they like (or possibly don't like) about your application.

Things like being from an underrepresented state, having prestigious awards or news articles written about you, tons of leadership positions, many (double-digit) AP classes, uncommon circumstances/background etc. will appear here * Will say whether they think you're an for-sure admit, likely admit, borderline case, likely not admit, etc.

Includes abbreviations such as "PQ" = Personal Qualities, or "IV" = Intellectual Vitality.

Reader 2's review is usually shorter and mentions whether they agree or disagree with reader 1. Scores from the reviewers are usually the same or at least very similar.

A copy of your application that you submitted, along with high school profile that your high school submits (info about the school), submitted test scores, blacked-out teacher letters of rec.

Teacher recommendations were blacked out for me since I waived those FERPA rights when I requested them. I was surprised by how short they were (only a few sentences, not a full page letter like I thought).

Bonus: [Here's a visual] (https://www.reddit.com/r/stanford/comments/fv4896/declared_majors_of_stanford_undergraduates_autumn/) I made earlier showing the majors of Stanford students.

CS is by far the biggest one (more than 3x than any other major), followed by human biology (premed), and economics.

Note that Stanford will take your intended majors into account, they give preference to underrepresented majors and judge overrepresented ones more harshly, evaluate if your race & gender are under or overrepresented in the major, and evaluate how well your ECs, classes, essays, recommendations fit into your major.


What is Stanford Looking For?
Stanford ranks all applicants on a scale of 1-6 (1 highest) in three categories: academic, extracurricular, and intellectual vitality. GPA is recalculated as well. Only grades from sophomore and junior year are included, and only those from academic courses. Further +/- grades are flattened, so A- counts as an A, and B+ as a B. The average recalculated GPA is 3.94. While students should have a more singular extracurricular passion, they should be all-around stellar academically. Consistent weak grades in one subject, especially STEM courses, will greatly damage an applicant’s chances. Stanford receives enough applicants that it can afford to be choosy; thus strong academics all-around are necessary. Legacy students have a significant advantage when applying to Stanford, gaining admittance at nearly 3 times the rate of non-legacy students. While that does still leave them with an acceptance rate of just over 10%, this is a major boost, and shows Stanford’s emphasis on preserving its culture, which many universities believe legacy admissions helps with. The essays are important, and Stanford uses both the main question and the supplemental essays to judge a student’s character, authenticity, and potential to contribute to the campus community. Stanford often admits candidates who are most compelling over those who are merely highly qualified. The story told by your essays is incredibly important here. Stanford has recently begun a new diversity initiative, aimed at increasing representation in their student body. This will provide a slight boost to first generation or underrepresented populations who are applying.
https://www.ivyscholars.com/stanford-university-guide/

What stanford looks for. I found this helpful.

[Anonymous]

Found this for Duke- for those still working on apps:

Duke is looking for self-motivated, intellectually curious students; Duke students described as "outrageously ambitious".

Students that are accepted tend to have one or more of the following characteristics (according to their brochure):
a sense of engagement with ideas, with other people, with a community;
an inclination to take full advantage of the talents and abilities they've been given, an interest in being challenged - a healthy ambition;
demonstrated ability to have an impact - the desire to make a difference;
creativity, curiosity, and a sense of fun;
an openness to opportunities.

[Anonymous]

looking at this.
it appears ECs are worth 25% of the scoring at Duke and 30% of the scoring at Northwestern?

Can anyone verify?

[Anonymous]

For Stanford, DD is trying to decide whether to talk about a part-time job (not on EC list) or an EC that's on her EC list for the below question. Does Stanford like jobs? The job (typical teenage job) doesn't tie into her singular hook like the EC does. But EC is on the list. Trying not to repeat anything. Any advice for Stanford?


BRIEFLY ELABORATE ON ONE OF YOUR EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES, A JOB YOU HOLD, OR RESPONSIBILITIES YOU HAVE FOR YOUR FAMILY. (50)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For Stanford, DD is trying to decide whether to talk about a part-time job (not on EC list) or an EC that's on her EC list for the below question. Does Stanford like jobs? The job (typical teenage job) doesn't tie into her singular hook like the EC does. But EC is on the list. Trying not to repeat anything. Any advice for Stanford?


BRIEFLY ELABORATE ON ONE OF YOUR EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES, A JOB YOU HOLD, OR RESPONSIBILITIES YOU HAVE FOR YOUR FAMILY. (50)

Whichever is the better story. Did she work a lot or just briefly? If a decent amount, I’d include it somewhere in the application. If it really can’t fit in her ECs, at least mention in the additional info section.

[Anonymous]

These ratings are very subjective. Is it any wonder that not much is coming out of recent grads except high paying finance or consulting jobs?