Mlsnext and Fall HS

[Anonymous]

I hear this is happening at Bethesda with some public school boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear this is happening at Bethesda with some public school boys.

Don't ask don't tell policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear this is happening at Bethesda with some public school boys.

Don't ask don't tell policy.

I’m 100 percent sure every MLSNext team in this area have boys who are playing on a public school high school team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear this is happening at Bethesda with some public school boys.

Not on the 2010s at least. The coach told the HS players they aren’t allowed to be around the team in the fall due to MLSNext rules. He let them practice during the optional workouts near the end of summer but they were made “non-players” as soon as the practices started.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear this is happening at Bethesda with some public school boys.

Don't ask don't tell policy.

I’m 100 percent sure every MLSNext team in this area have boys who are playing on a public school high school team.

Proof please. Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear this is happening at Bethesda with some public school boys.

Not on the 2010s at least. The coach told the HS players they aren’t allowed to be around the team in the fall due to MLSNext rules. He let them practice during the optional workouts near the end of summer but they were made “non-players” as soon as the practices started.

Right. That’s what a pp was referring to. And as soon as HS ends in October, they’ll be added back on the MLSN roster. Clever workaround ain’t it? But it also implies that the club knows what’s going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear this is happening at Bethesda with some public school boys.

Not on the 2010s at least. The coach told the HS players they aren’t allowed to be around the team in the fall due to MLSNext rules. He let them practice during the optional workouts near the end of summer but they were made “non-players” as soon as the practices started.

Right. That’s what a pp was referring to. And as soon as HS ends in October, they’ll be added back on the MLSN roster. Clever workaround ain’t it? But it also implies that the club knows what’s going on.

What's the benefits to the club and the player to do this?

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure why people care about this issue? If the rationale for the rule is that playing both high school and MLS Next increases risk of injury, then it's really on the player, parents, and MLS Next coach to decide how strictly to enforce/follow (and players can choose the MLS Next club based on whether the coach permits or does not permit playing both, as it appears that some coaches allow more liberally for the exception/work-around). It's not like MLS Next clubs are getting some sort of advantage if they are being flexible with players that may want to play with a high school team. And seems like MLS Next leaves enough vagueness and discretion in the rule for the "work around."

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Unless you have a quest for an injured kid from overuse, why go after HS + MLS Next?

Does a 17-year-old kid playing for HS + club have more practice/playing time, and more "overuse", than a 17-year-old kid playing for a professional soccer club? How about those kids who attend MLS "academies" (e.g., Philadelphia Union) where the school is integrated into the soccer academy -- do they train less than a kid playing HS + club?

There is a high occurrence of injuries in HS soccer because of factors including over reliance on physicality training at high volume being run by unqualified coaches.

Is that happening at 7am at Philly Union to be followed by evening training sessions not coordinated with the morning sessions? 4-5 days a week plus HS game and 2 MLS Next games weekly?

I legitimately don't know which is why I posed the question. There are high school teams that do, in fact, practice at 7am before school due to limited field size. Is it necessarily overuse for a high school kid who sits around all day between 8:30 - 3:30 to then also play more soccer (practice or game) in the afternoon or evening?

MLS Next teams I'm familiar with around here practice 4x week for 90 minutes, with one or sometimes two games per weekend (where if your kid is the star he'll play all 90 minutes, otherwise say 45 minutes); that's about 6.5 hours of soccer each week.

I'm not saying that there is no risk of overuse or that the rougher nature of HS soccer isn't a factor. But in terms of sheer quantity of training time for a healthy teenager who loves soccer, 6.5 hours of playing per week seems underwhelming, and I wonder how it compares with what teenage soccer players are doing in far more successful soccer cultures than ours. 

You do realize that your mls next kid chose to play year-round soccer for that club. My kid chose ECNL so they could play hs soccer. There is overuse with playing club and hs and then there's that thing called homework.

Separate discussion, I'm just talking about the "overuse!" claims that repeatedly get thrown around at any mention of a kid playing HS + club.

How many hours of soccer does an ECNL kid play during the HS + club part of the year when they're playing for both teams at the same time? I seem to recall hearing that ECNL clubs reduce their practice schedule to during the HS season, but I don't know the details.

For the record, I don't have any children playing HS + MLS Next. I get the sense that the main reason for the rule is the lower-skill, higher-contact/fouling nature of HS soccer at most public schools (which is probably a fair point) and concern that "low parental involvement" kids will flunk out of school if they're playing both club and HS soccer.

When a top tier academy has occasional 2-a-day practice at select periods during the season (mainly off-season) it is carefully planned, scheduled and coordinated to prevent overuse and overtraining injuries.
Overseen by professionals

The MLS team 4 days training are planned around periodization of effort and work load based on their game/practice schedules.
It doesn't take into account the excessive physical loads of a morning HS (or any other) session by the Geography teacher on young bodies.

So overuse injuries are all but guaranteed.

Stop just looking at the amount of time.
There are more nuances than that.

Off-season for youth soccer is winter and summer -- are you claiming that MLS Academy kids hold one 90 minute training session daily during the fall and spring youth soccer seasons?

MLS Academy teams train 4 days a week

4 days a week for 90 minutes a day is the MLS Academy training schedule ... that's why they have kids live on-site and go to special schools, for those 90 minutes a day 4x a week training sessions. Right.

What did you say that changed the fact that they train 4 days a week?

Nothing. Because I'm not challenging the claim that MLS Academies train 4 days per week. I'm challenging the combined assertions that MLS Academies train 4 days per week, for 90 minutes a day, and that anything above and beyond that is "overuse." It's absurd on its face to believe that Philadelphia Union Academy segregates their kids into a special on-site school to give them 90 minutes of soccer training per day, 4 days a week. Clearly, they are practicing more than 90 minutes of soccer per day. I suspect they have two training sessions per day, probably for a combined total of about 180 minutes of soccer training per day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you have a quest for an injured kid from overuse, why go after HS + MLS Next?

Does a 17-year-old kid playing for HS + club have more practice/playing time, and more "overuse", than a 17-year-old kid playing for a professional soccer club? How about those kids who attend MLS "academies" (e.g., Philadelphia Union) where the school is integrated into the soccer academy -- do they train less than a kid playing HS + club?

There is a high occurrence of injuries in HS soccer because of factors including over reliance on physicality training at high volume being run by unqualified coaches.

Is that happening at 7am at Philly Union to be followed by evening training sessions not coordinated with the morning sessions? 4-5 days a week plus HS game and 2 MLS Next games weekly?

I legitimately don't know which is why I posed the question. There are high school teams that do, in fact, practice at 7am before school due to limited field size. Is it necessarily overuse for a high school kid who sits around all day between 8:30 - 3:30 to then also play more soccer (practice or game) in the afternoon or evening?

MLS Next teams I'm familiar with around here practice 4x week for 90 minutes, with one or sometimes two games per weekend (where if your kid is the star he'll play all 90 minutes, otherwise say 45 minutes); that's about 6.5 hours of soccer each week.

I'm not saying that there is no risk of overuse or that the rougher nature of HS soccer isn't a factor. But in terms of sheer quantity of training time for a healthy teenager who loves soccer, 6.5 hours of playing per week seems underwhelming, and I wonder how it compares with what teenage soccer players are doing in far more successful soccer cultures than ours. 

You do realize that your mls next kid chose to play year-round soccer for that club. My kid chose ECNL so they could play hs soccer. There is overuse with playing club and hs and then there's that thing called homework.

Separate discussion, I'm just talking about the "overuse!" claims that repeatedly get thrown around at any mention of a kid playing HS + club.

How many hours of soccer does an ECNL kid play during the HS + club part of the year when they're playing for both teams at the same time? I seem to recall hearing that ECNL clubs reduce their practice schedule to during the HS season, but I don't know the details.

For the record, I don't have any children playing HS + MLS Next. I get the sense that the main reason for the rule is the lower-skill, higher-contact/fouling nature of HS soccer at most public schools (which is probably a fair point) and concern that "low parental involvement" kids will flunk out of school if they're playing both club and HS soccer.

When a top tier academy has occasional 2-a-day practice at select periods during the season (mainly off-season) it is carefully planned, scheduled and coordinated to prevent overuse and overtraining injuries.
Overseen by professionals

The MLS team 4 days training are planned around periodization of effort and work load based on their game/practice schedules.
It doesn't take into account the excessive physical loads of a morning HS (or any other) session by the Geography teacher on young bodies.

So overuse injuries are all but guaranteed.

Stop just looking at the amount of time.
There are more nuances than that.

Off-season for youth soccer is winter and summer -- are you claiming that MLS Academy kids hold one 90 minute training session daily during the fall and spring youth soccer seasons?

MLS Academy teams train 4 days a week

4 days a week for 90 minutes a day is the MLS Academy training schedule ... that's why they have kids live on-site and go to special schools, for those 90 minutes a day 4x a week training sessions. Right.

What did you say that changed the fact that they train 4 days a week?

Nothing. Because I'm not challenging the claim that MLS Academies train 4 days per week. I'm challenging the combined assertions that MLS Academies train 4 days per week, for 90 minutes a day, and that anything above and beyond that is "overuse." It's absurd on its face to believe that Philadelphia Union Academy segregates their kids into a special on-site school to give them 90 minutes of soccer training per day, 4 days a week. Clearly, they are practicing more than 90 minutes of soccer per day. I suspect they have two training sessions per day, probably for a combined total of about 180 minutes of soccer training per day.

There is a big difference between coordinated morning + evening sessions where the volume, intensity and types of activities are carefully administered and monitored by professionals.

Versus an over excessive with physicality and intensity HS session in the morning followed by a MLS team training session that doesn't take that into consideration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear this is happening at Bethesda with some public school boys.

Don't ask don't tell policy.

I’m 100 percent sure every MLSNext team in this area have boys who are playing on a public school high school team.

We had some scrimmaging, but they are no longer involved in the team.

[Anonymous]

Nothing. Because I'm not challenging the claim that MLS Academies train 4 days per week. I'm challenging the combined assertions that MLS Academies train 4 days per week, for 90 minutes a day, and that anything above and beyond that is "overuse." It's absurd on its face to believe that Philadelphia Union Academy segregates their kids into a special on-site school to give them 90 minutes of soccer training per day, 4 days a week. Clearly, they are practicing more than 90 minutes of soccer per day. I suspect they have two training sessions per day, probably for a combined total of about 180 minutes of soccer training per day.





There is a big difference between coordinated morning + evening sessions where the volume, intensity and types of activities are carefully administered and monitored by professionals.

Versus an over excessive with physicality and intensity HS session in the morning followed by a MLS team training session that doesn't take that into consideration.

As the parent of a son in said academy, please allow me to jump in. The local MLS Academies have team training 4 times a week for 90 minutes and then supplemental IDP training that can range between 30 - 90 mins a day. That does not include gym time, video time or any additional specialized training. That said, you are not addressing the bigger difference between HS + MLS vs. MLS Academy and that is oversight. At the academy level training minutes and playing time are down to a science, whether it is through sweat management, fitness compliance testing or another matrix, every player has a training/game potential and that is followed very closely. They are continually monitored by a trainer and all injuries/concerns are addressed immediately, whether it is a blister or a pulled muscle. In the Philly system they also cross train to avoid overuse injuries. Think basketball and gymnastics instead of just soccer. It continually works to build secondary/support muscle groups without the repetitive nature of single sport athletes. So while the academy kids play just as often or even more so than the HS + MLS kids, the training and more importantly the support/monitoring is very, very different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Nothing. Because I'm not challenging the claim that MLS Academies train 4 days per week. I'm challenging the combined assertions that MLS Academies train 4 days per week, for 90 minutes a day, and that anything above and beyond that is "overuse." It's absurd on its face to believe that Philadelphia Union Academy segregates their kids into a special on-site school to give them 90 minutes of soccer training per day, 4 days a week. Clearly, they are practicing more than 90 minutes of soccer per day. I suspect they have two training sessions per day, probably for a combined total of about 180 minutes of soccer training per day.





There is a big difference between coordinated morning + evening sessions where the volume, intensity and types of activities are carefully administered and monitored by professionals.

Versus an over excessive with physicality and intensity HS session in the morning followed by a MLS team training session that doesn't take that into consideration.

As the parent of a son in said academy, please allow me to jump in. The local MLS Academies have team training 4 times a week for 90 minutes and then supplemental IDP training that can range between 30 - 90 mins a day. That does not include gym time, video time or any additional specialized training. That said, you are not addressing the bigger difference between HS + MLS vs. MLS Academy and that is oversight. At the academy level training minutes and playing time are down to a science, whether it is through sweat management, fitness compliance testing or another matrix, every player has a training/game potential and that is followed very closely. They are continually monitored by a trainer and all injuries/concerns are addressed immediately, whether it is a blister or a pulled muscle. In the Philly system they also cross train to avoid overuse injuries. Think basketball and gymnastics instead of just soccer. It continually works to build secondary/support muscle groups without the repetitive nature of single sport athletes. So while the academy kids play just as often or even more so than the HS + MLS kids, the training and more importantly the support/monitoring is very, very different.

Sounds like up to 180 minutes of soccer training per day (training + supplemental IDP training) PLUS gym time PLUS "specialized training" ... quite an intense schedule. Then again, these are athletes in their teens, so it's not surprising they can handle this schedule.