Senior Living -- More Expensive, More Rules??

[Anonymous]

I refused to cosign for my father.

They still took him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I seem to have unintentionally led people to believe he’s in the brink of bankruptcy. He has money now. About a half million. If he lives another 10 years like others in his family, things could become an issue especially if he has to move into assisted living (due to failing eyesight and other physical issues). He has good healthcare from his wife’s former employer (a community college the belonged to the public system). He has a small pension.

Right now, he wants an independent senior living place. The only thing his current doesn’t have is a pool. It has a library, a movie theater, on-site social and entertainment events, a large dining room, a hair salon, a can to take you to appointments within a 10 mile radius (his docs are all in this radius), covered parking for his car (!), free grocery delivery to the facility (he has to pay extra for room delivery, I think), etc. He just doesn’t like all the rules.

He doesn’t like that the assistants he hires are for scheduled times. For example, he had surgery soon after moving into the place. I got him set up with folks who provided help with getting out of bed and dressing. He was pissed that the cane at set times for like 15 minutes. His argument? Sometimes he wants to get up earlier or later. He hates having set times for meals and assistances. I and the “helping hands organization told him he could hire someone to be on call but that means paying for someone for their time whether he used them or not. That did not go over well with him. The list of gripes goes on and on.

I think he just hasn’t reconciled himself with the fact that the rules are how senior living works. Going to a more expensive place won’t help him avoid schedules and dressing in something other than Pjs in public.

Thanks for the inputs and allowing me to vent a bit.

I'm a pp that said my Dad has moved facilities multiple times without a co-signer.

I'm sorry, OP, but 1/2 million in this context is not a lot of money. My Dad has about $2 million. Between his pension and social security he takes in a little over $6k/month, and the facilities he's been living in are just under $6k/month (these facilities include all food, housing, transportation, activities--basically all expenses except personal things like toothpaste and clothing.)
You don't say how much your uncle's pension is, but if his monthly guaranteed income (pension + social security) is less than the cost of the facility, I can see why they are requiring a co-signer.

Also, since your uncle sounds similar to my Dad, be on the lookout for your uncle to fall prey to scams. It's been a huge issue with my Dad-about 2 years ago I posted about my Dad donating nearly $100,000 to various politicians through ACT BLUE. It wasn't one big donation, it was literally thousands of small donations (most were between $5-25) over the course of four months, and we (his adult kids) didn't find out until all that money was gone.

Then, two weeks ago he was scammed out of another $31k. Some message popped up on his computer saying his identity had been stolen and to call a number. Long story short, within 4 days a scammer was able to convince him that his social security number had been used to open accounts used in drug trafficking and child sex abuse rings. The "agent" (scammer) told my dad that to get his social security number changed he would need to pay. He told my dad to withdraw $31k in cash from his bank account and wait out front of his senior living facility. A black BMW (with windows so tinted that my dad could not see the driver) pulled up and rolled down a back window. My dad put the bag of cash in the backseat through the window, and the car pulled away. It was that simple. After we found out about this we asked his senior living facility if they had any security video footage, but apparently the scammer knew exactly where the cameras were located and this all took place out of camera view.

I hope nothing like that happens to your uncle, and I really think you should see a lawyer about your responsibilities and obligations in this situation.

I agree that half a million isn’t a lot. That’s why I’m a bit freaked out. We had another relative whose money drained quickly as the faculty moved him between assisted living and memory care.

That’s said, he has more than many people his age.

Today he is fine. It’s tomorrow that concerns me.

Forgot to add I’m aware of the scammers. Mom fell for them IRL and online. She has nothing but SS and a smaller pension.

PS My uncle believes he only has a year or two left in him. He won’t hear talk that he may live longer despite having longevity in his family. And he’s been active about staying healthy all his life. (Shaking fist at sky!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I seem to have unintentionally led people to believe he’s in the brink of bankruptcy. He has money now. About a half million. If he lives another 10 years like others in his family, things could become an issue especially if he has to move into assisted living (due to failing eyesight and other physical issues). He has good healthcare from his wife’s former employer (a community college the belonged to the public system). He has a small pension.

Right now, he wants an independent senior living place. The only thing his current doesn’t have is a pool. It has a library, a movie theater, on-site social and entertainment events, a large dining room, a hair salon, a can to take you to appointments within a 10 mile radius (his docs are all in this radius), covered parking for his car (!), free grocery delivery to the facility (he has to pay extra for room delivery, I think), etc. He just doesn’t like all the rules.

He doesn’t like that the assistants he hires are for scheduled times. For example, he had surgery soon after moving into the place. I got him set up with folks who provided help with getting out of bed and dressing. He was pissed that the cane at set times for like 15 minutes. His argument? Sometimes he wants to get up earlier or later. He hates having set times for meals and assistances. I and the “helping hands organization told him he could hire someone to be on call but that means paying for someone for their time whether he used them or not. That did not go over well with him. The list of gripes goes on and on.

I think he just hasn’t reconciled himself with the fact that the rules are how senior living works. Going to a more expensive place won’t help him avoid schedules and dressing in something other than Pjs in public.

Thanks for the inputs and allowing me to vent a bit.

I'm a pp that said my Dad has moved facilities multiple times without a co-signer.

I'm sorry, OP, but 1/2 million in this context is not a lot of money. My Dad has about $2 million. Between his pension and social security he takes in a little over $6k/month, and the facilities he's been living in are just under $6k/month (these facilities include all food, housing, transportation, activities--basically all expenses except personal things like toothpaste and clothing.)
You don't say how much your uncle's pension is, but if his monthly guaranteed income (pension + social security) is less than the cost of the facility, I can see why they are requiring a co-signer.

Also, since your uncle sounds similar to my Dad, be on the lookout for your uncle to fall prey to scams. It's been a huge issue with my Dad-about 2 years ago I posted about my Dad donating nearly $100,000 to various politicians through ACT BLUE. It wasn't one big donation, it was literally thousands of small donations (most were between $5-25) over the course of four months, and we (his adult kids) didn't find out until all that money was gone.

Then, two weeks ago he was scammed out of another $31k. Some message popped up on his computer saying his identity had been stolen and to call a number. Long story short, within 4 days a scammer was able to convince him that his social security number had been used to open accounts used in drug trafficking and child sex abuse rings. The "agent" (scammer) told my dad that to get his social security number changed he would need to pay. He told my dad to withdraw $31k in cash from his bank account and wait out front of his senior living facility. A black BMW (with windows so tinted that my dad could not see the driver) pulled up and rolled down a back window. My dad put the bag of cash in the backseat through the window, and the car pulled away. It was that simple. After we found out about this we asked his senior living facility if they had any security video footage, but apparently the scammer knew exactly where the cameras were located and this all took place out of camera view.

I hope nothing like that happens to your uncle, and I really think you should see a lawyer about your responsibilities and obligations in this situation.

I agree that half a million isn’t a lot. That’s why I’m a bit freaked out. We had another relative whose money drained quickly as the faculty moved him between assisted living and memory care.

That’s said, he has more than many people his age.

Today he is fine. It’s tomorrow that concerns me.

Agreed that 500K won't last long if you have to bump up his care. Find a facility that will take Medicaid.

This is anecdotal, but when my dad was in rehab, the facility didn't want to release him once mediCARE stopped paying because they knew he could afford to private pay. Their justification was that he wasn't able to care for himself (they were doing nothing to help him get better) so they couldn't release him. We had to prove we were set up at home to care for him and threaten to sue. We had the resources to get him out. What you don't want is the co-signed facility not allowing you to get him out. If it's solely independent living, then that will probably be easier. But if they have higher levels of care on premise then I'd be careful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I seem to have unintentionally led people to believe he’s in the brink of bankruptcy. He has money now. About a half million. If he lives another 10 years like others in his family, things could become an issue especially if he has to move into assisted living (due to failing eyesight and other physical issues). He has good healthcare from his wife’s former employer (a community college the belonged to the public system). He has a small pension.

Right now, he wants an independent senior living place. The only thing his current doesn’t have is a pool. It has a library, a movie theater, on-site social and entertainment events, a large dining room, a hair salon, a can to take you to appointments within a 10 mile radius (his docs are all in this radius), covered parking for his car (!), free grocery delivery to the facility (he has to pay extra for room delivery, I think), etc. He just doesn’t like all the rules.

He doesn’t like that the assistants he hires are for scheduled times. For example, he had surgery soon after moving into the place. I got him set up with folks who provided help with getting out of bed and dressing. He was pissed that the cane at set times for like 15 minutes. His argument? Sometimes he wants to get up earlier or later. He hates having set times for meals and assistances. I and the “helping hands organization told him he could hire someone to be on call but that means paying for someone for their time whether he used them or not. That did not go over well with him. The list of gripes goes on and on.

I think he just hasn’t reconciled himself with the fact that the rules are how senior living works. Going to a more expensive place won’t help him avoid schedules and dressing in something other than Pjs in public.

Thanks for the inputs and allowing me to vent a bit.

I'm a pp that said my Dad has moved facilities multiple times without a co-signer.

I'm sorry, OP, but 1/2 million in this context is not a lot of money. My Dad has about $2 million. Between his pension and social security he takes in a little over $6k/month, and the facilities he's been living in are just under $6k/month (these facilities include all food, housing, transportation, activities--basically all expenses except personal things like toothpaste and clothing.)
You don't say how much your uncle's pension is, but if his monthly guaranteed income (pension + social security) is less than the cost of the facility, I can see why they are requiring a co-signer.

Also, since your uncle sounds similar to my Dad, be on the lookout for your uncle to fall prey to scams. It's been a huge issue with my Dad-about 2 years ago I posted about my Dad donating nearly $100,000 to various politicians through ACT BLUE. It wasn't one big donation, it was literally thousands of small donations (most were between $5-25) over the course of four months, and we (his adult kids) didn't find out until all that money was gone.

Then, two weeks ago he was scammed out of another $31k. Some message popped up on his computer saying his identity had been stolen and to call a number. Long story short, within 4 days a scammer was able to convince him that his social security number had been used to open accounts used in drug trafficking and child sex abuse rings. The "agent" (scammer) told my dad that to get his social security number changed he would need to pay. He told my dad to withdraw $31k in cash from his bank account and wait out front of his senior living facility. A black BMW (with windows so tinted that my dad could not see the driver) pulled up and rolled down a back window. My dad put the bag of cash in the backseat through the window, and the car pulled away. It was that simple. After we found out about this we asked his senior living facility if they had any security video footage, but apparently the scammer knew exactly where the cameras were located and this all took place out of camera view.

I hope nothing like that happens to your uncle, and I really think you should see a lawyer about your responsibilities and obligations in this situation.

I agree that half a million isn’t a lot. That’s why I’m a bit freaked out. We had another relative whose money drained quickly as the faculty moved him between assisted living and memory care.

That’s said, he has more than many people his age.

Today he is fine. It’s tomorrow that concerns me.

So what? Just because he has more than some people, he still doesn't have enough to ensure that you won't be on the hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I refused to cosign for my father.

They still took him.

Are you a NP? This is interesting. Did he have a good amount of money? Are they a facility that takes MediCAID if needed?

[Anonymous]

Would an "aging in place" arrangement work for him? One where he could start out in his own studio-like apartment with a small kitchen, and choose to have his meals either in his unit or in the communal dining room? That would give him more freedom of choice in that area. My dad was in a place like that (with lots of amenities, pool, etc.). When he became too ill and needed more care he moved to the hospital unit for a while, then back to his apartment, then ultimately hospice. It was all on the property so no major moves were needed when his needs changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would an "aging in place" arrangement work for him? One where he could start out in his own studio-like apartment with a small kitchen, and choose to have his meals either in his unit or in the communal dining room? That would give him more freedom of choice in that area. My dad was in a place like that (with lots of amenities, pool, etc.). When he became too ill and needed more care he moved to the hospital unit for a while, then back to his apartment, then ultimately hospice. It was all on the property so no major moves were needed when his needs changed.

He's 87. That seems like a great options for a 70 year old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would an "aging in place" arrangement work for him? One where he could start out in his own studio-like apartment with a small kitchen, and choose to have his meals either in his unit or in the communal dining room? That would give him more freedom of choice in that area. My dad was in a place like that (with lots of amenities, pool, etc.). When he became too ill and needed more care he moved to the hospital unit for a while, then back to his apartment, then ultimately hospice. It was all on the property so no major moves were needed when his needs changed.

This sounds like a CCRC with all levels of care. Did your dad have to buy into the facility. I only know one person whose dad did this. He bought a condo when he was 70 and was able to stay there (eventually with live in help) and is now in the skilled nursing. He started with several million, but now in his late 90s in skilled nursing for 3 years, he is nearly out of money.

[Anonymous]

OP, do you think he actually wants to move closer to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you think he actually wants to move closer to you?

I don’t think so. No way would I move him closer to me especially with my own parent and in-laws out of state (they are not in the same state as each other, also 80). Also, I don’t have funds for my own parent. Plus being mid-50s we are still saving for our own retirement and kids’ college.

Being closer to me doesn’t solve much. It complicates things. At least now he’s in the same state as my parent. I also have a sibling there that doesn’t help much outside a phone call to him every few months. Bringing him here could complicate going to see my own family there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would an "aging in place" arrangement work for him? One where he could start out in his own studio-like apartment with a small kitchen, and choose to have his meals either in his unit or in the communal dining room? That would give him more freedom of choice in that area. My dad was in a place like that (with lots of amenities, pool, etc.). When he became too ill and needed more care he moved to the hospital unit for a while, then back to his apartment, then ultimately hospice. It was all on the property so no major moves were needed when his needs changed.

This sounds like a CCRC with all levels of care. Did your dad have to buy into the facility. I only know one person whose dad did this. He bought a condo when he was 70 and was able to stay there (eventually with live in help) and is now in the skilled nursing. He started with several million, but now in his late 90s in skilled nursing for 3 years, he is nearly out of money.

As I recall there were options to pay a lot upfront and a little on a monthly basis, or pay a smaller amount upfront (like $50K) and a higher monthly fee. We chose the latter,l. After he moved in a combined drawdown from his savings + SS covered everything. Also as I recall, they said that (perhaps after a certain period of time? Or financial status?) he couldn’t be required to leave even if he couldn’t pay (which wasn’t the situation, but was comforting to know just in case).

[Anonymous]

OP, I don't care that much about your uncle; he sounds like he's a very self centered individual. Aging sucks, but if he can't get with the program, he's going to have a very hard time adjusting.

I care about YOU. I don't understand why you ended up on the hook here, but I would really do anything I could to get out from that legal agreement to pay for his care when he runs out of money.