Narcissists who are very good at "therapy speak"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You report them to HR for harassment and creating a hostile work environment. This has nothing to do with narcissism. It's harassment, pure and simple.

This. It’s an HR issue. Do not interact with or socialize with the person and do not work with them.

NP. I wish people would at least scan threads before responding. The OP already came back to say there is no HR department AND this person is one of the two people in the firm to whom employees would usually report such things; the other person is this toxic person's friend and roommate. So "It's an HR issue" is not useful for OP. I suspect it's a small enough firm that OP can't always "not work with them" either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You report them to HR for harassment and creating a hostile work environment. This has nothing to do with narcissism. It's harassment, pure and simple.

No HR and of the two people at the company that you would generally bring this kind of interpersonal issue to she is one of them and the other one is her close friend and roommate.

Then you find a new job. This place is toxic. I'm sorry.

You are probably right but I'm pretty sad about it.

NP. No, no, no, you don't have to get another job. I empathize with you that what she did is incredibly frustrating (my chest got tight just reading about it!), but the good news is, no one -- NO ONE -- cares as much as you do. Absolutely no one will give her comments another thought. Their impression of you will be based on their interactions with you. And if they don't interact with you, their opinions hardly matter anyway. If you gray-rock and offer zero drama, no one will have a bad impression of you.

OP here and I've been reading on grey-rocking and agree this is a good approach for triaging this situation especially since my immediate supervisor does not seem to be taking it seriously (either what this woman said about me or the fact that I am very bothered by it) and I have no HR to turn to.

But I don't think I can survive in a workplace like this. I do think this woman is an instigator and at the heart of a lot of the toxicity here but I am also bothered by the way people just seem to accept it and in some cases may play into it and participate (I'm not going to get into how I learned of what she'd been saying but that was unprofessional too -- people socialize a lot after work and there's a lot of drinking and I think many people here are both very gossipy and very indiscrete). I just don't want to have to deal with this kind of environment even if I do really love the actual work I do. Also I am not sure how the grey-rocking is going to go. I feel like I already get penalized here for not being as social as others are and I think being less emotive will just worsen that. But we'll see.

New poster. The advice about grey-rocking is good but you don't have to grey rock the entire staff, just this one person! And since your own supervisor is giving all this no credence, just focus on keeping your supervisor happy and ensuring your supervisor sees that you do a great job and are enthusiastic about the work. That's what makes you, and your supervisor, look good--the work product. Be glad that this toxic woman is not your supervisor!

Re: the workplace culture of going out, outside the work day: That's non-negotiable anyway, since you have kids, which I presume your supervisor knows and understands. Has the supervisor ever asked you why you don't go out? Pressured you to attend or be more social etc.? I'm guessing not, and that's all that matters. You may be over-thinking this social stuff, OP; please go easier on yourself about it. It may feel like "they're all talking about me and how they think I'm antisocial" etc. But they likely aren't, and if they are, well, unless they are in your direct line of reporting, it doesn't matter. Your supervisors' and immediate colleagues' thoughts on your work product and work demeanor are what matter.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you do cry easily, and it sounds like toxic coworker got you flustered. She is a Grade A, top-level expert at using weaponized therapy-speak and will ALWAYS be the champ at it, so do not engage her at all; she will fluster you every time and that's not on you. But it's up to you to know that and not engage. She clearly has a power trip thing going on and she may actually be jealous of you for some reason, hence her need to undermine you. Don't let her drive you out but also don't ever engage. I'm sorry there's no HR department to help you here, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You report them to HR for harassment and creating a hostile work environment. This has nothing to do with narcissism. It's harassment, pure and simple.

This. It’s an HR issue. Do not interact with or socialize with the person and do not work with them.

NP. I wish people would at least scan threads before responding. The OP already came back to say there is no HR department AND this person is one of the two people in the firm to whom employees would usually report such things; the other person is this toxic person's friend and roommate. So "It's an HR issue" is not useful for OP. I suspect it's a small enough firm that OP can't always "not work with them" either.

Correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You report them to HR for harassment and creating a hostile work environment. This has nothing to do with narcissism. It's harassment, pure and simple.

No HR and of the two people at the company that you would generally bring this kind of interpersonal issue to she is one of them and the other one is her close friend and roommate.

Then you find a new job. This place is toxic. I'm sorry.

You are probably right but I'm pretty sad about it.

NP. No, no, no, you don't have to get another job. I empathize with you that what she did is incredibly frustrating (my chest got tight just reading about it!), but the good news is, no one -- NO ONE -- cares as much as you do. Absolutely no one will give her comments another thought. Their impression of you will be based on their interactions with you. And if they don't interact with you, their opinions hardly matter anyway. If you gray-rock and offer zero drama, no one will have a bad impression of you.

OP here and I've been reading on grey-rocking and agree this is a good approach for triaging this situation especially since my immediate supervisor does not seem to be taking it seriously (either what this woman said about me or the fact that I am very bothered by it) and I have no HR to turn to.

But I don't think I can survive in a workplace like this. I do think this woman is an instigator and at the heart of a lot of the toxicity here but I am also bothered by the way people just seem to accept it and in some cases may play into it and participate (I'm not going to get into how I learned of what she'd been saying but that was unprofessional too -- people socialize a lot after work and there's a lot of drinking and I think many people here are both very gossipy and very indiscrete). I just don't want to have to deal with this kind of environment even if I do really love the actual work I do. Also I am not sure how the grey-rocking is going to go. I feel like I already get penalized here for not being as social as others are and I think being less emotive will just worsen that. But we'll see.

New poster. The advice about grey-rocking is good but you don't have to grey rock the entire staff, just this one person! And since your own supervisor is giving all this no credence, just focus on keeping your supervisor happy and ensuring your supervisor sees that you do a great job and are enthusiastic about the work. That's what makes you, and your supervisor, look good--the work product. Be glad that this toxic woman is not your supervisor!

Re: the workplace culture of going out, outside the work day: That's non-negotiable anyway, since you have kids, which I presume your supervisor knows and understands. Has the supervisor ever asked you why you don't go out? Pressured you to attend or be more social etc.? I'm guessing not, and that's all that matters. You may be over-thinking this social stuff, OP; please go easier on yourself about it. It may feel like "they're all talking about me and how they think I'm antisocial" etc. But they likely aren't, and if they are, well, unless they are in your direct line of reporting, it doesn't matter. Your supervisors' and immediate colleagues' thoughts on your work product and work demeanor are what matter.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you do cry easily, and it sounds like toxic coworker got you flustered. She is a Grade A, top-level expert at using weaponized therapy-speak and will ALWAYS be the champ at it, so do not engage her at all; she will fluster you every time and that's not on you. But it's up to you to know that and not engage. She clearly has a power trip thing going on and she may actually be jealous of you for some reason, hence her need to undermine you. Don't let her drive you out but also don't ever engage. I'm sorry there's no HR department to help you here, though.

I see what you are saying but it's not quite accurate. The toxic woman is not my direct supervisor but is on the management team so she does have power over me. And my supervisor kind of plays both sides -- she sort of rolled her eyes about this whole thing when I discussed it with her (like "oh yeah -- she does that kind of thing") but the toxic woman has power over my supervisor too and my supervisor takes great pains to stay on her good side. I get it -- it's probably a necessity of working here. But it also means that I don't actually feel like my supervisor has my back and I don't at all trust that she would stick up for me to this woman.

As for the going out I get pressure on that point from all corners. At first I was flattered that people wanted me to hang so much but increasingly it just feels like weird peer pressure. And my supervisor definitely pressures me to participate. In fact she told met that would be a good way to deal with this gossip -- if I went out with people more they would get to know me better and be less inclined to listen to the gossip. But the truth is I can't and don't want to -- I am older and have family responsibilities and not really a partier generally. I just want to do my job and go to the occasional social thing (like once or twice a month). But people here socialize after work 4-5x a week. I will never be able to keep up and likely will always be an outsider here.

I think this just is not the right place for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You report them to HR for harassment and creating a hostile work environment. This has nothing to do with narcissism. It's harassment, pure and simple.

No HR and of the two people at the company that you would generally bring this kind of interpersonal issue to she is one of them and the other one is her close friend and roommate.

Then you find a new job. This place is toxic. I'm sorry.

You are probably right but I'm pretty sad about it.

NP. No, no, no, you don't have to get another job. I empathize with you that what she did is incredibly frustrating (my chest got tight just reading about it!), but the good news is, no one -- NO ONE -- cares as much as you do. Absolutely no one will give her comments another thought. Their impression of you will be based on their interactions with you. And if they don't interact with you, their opinions hardly matter anyway. If you gray-rock and offer zero drama, no one will have a bad impression of you.

OP here and I've been reading on grey-rocking and agree this is a good approach for triaging this situation especially since my immediate supervisor does not seem to be taking it seriously (either what this woman said about me or the fact that I am very bothered by it) and I have no HR to turn to.

But I don't think I can survive in a workplace like this. I do think this woman is an instigator and at the heart of a lot of the toxicity here but I am also bothered by the way people just seem to accept it and in some cases may play into it and participate (I'm not going to get into how I learned of what she'd been saying but that was unprofessional too -- people socialize a lot after work and there's a lot of drinking and I think many people here are both very gossipy and very indiscrete). I just don't want to have to deal with this kind of environment even if I do really love the actual work I do. Also I am not sure how the grey-rocking is going to go. I feel like I already get penalized here for not being as social as others are and I think being less emotive will just worsen that. But we'll see.

New poster. The advice about grey-rocking is good but you don't have to grey rock the entire staff, just this one person! And since your own supervisor is giving all this no credence, just focus on keeping your supervisor happy and ensuring your supervisor sees that you do a great job and are enthusiastic about the work. That's what makes you, and your supervisor, look good--the work product. Be glad that this toxic woman is not your supervisor!

Re: the workplace culture of going out, outside the work day: That's non-negotiable anyway, since you have kids, which I presume your supervisor knows and understands. Has the supervisor ever asked you why you don't go out? Pressured you to attend or be more social etc.? I'm guessing not, and that's all that matters. You may be over-thinking this social stuff, OP; please go easier on yourself about it. It may feel like "they're all talking about me and how they think I'm antisocial" etc. But they likely aren't, and if they are, well, unless they are in your direct line of reporting, it doesn't matter. Your supervisors' and immediate colleagues' thoughts on your work product and work demeanor are what matter.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you do cry easily, and it sounds like toxic coworker got you flustered. She is a Grade A, top-level expert at using weaponized therapy-speak and will ALWAYS be the champ at it, so do not engage her at all; she will fluster you every time and that's not on you. But it's up to you to know that and not engage. She clearly has a power trip thing going on and she may actually be jealous of you for some reason, hence her need to undermine you. Don't let her drive you out but also don't ever engage. I'm sorry there's no HR department to help you here, though.

I see what you are saying but it's not quite accurate. The toxic woman is not my direct supervisor but is on the management team so she does have power over me. And my supervisor kind of plays both sides -- she sort of rolled her eyes about this whole thing when I discussed it with her (like "oh yeah -- she does that kind of thing") but the toxic woman has power over my supervisor too and my supervisor takes great pains to stay on her good side. I get it -- it's probably a necessity of working here. But it also means that I don't actually feel like my supervisor has my back and I don't at all trust that she would stick up for me to this woman.

As for the going out I get pressure on that point from all corners. At first I was flattered that people wanted me to hang so much but increasingly it just feels like weird peer pressure. And my supervisor definitely pressures me to participate. In fact she told met that would be a good way to deal with this gossip -- if I went out with people more they would get to know me better and be less inclined to listen to the gossip. But the truth is I can't and don't want to -- I am older and have family responsibilities and not really a partier generally. I just want to do my job and go to the occasional social thing (like once or twice a month). But people here socialize after work 4-5x a week. I will never be able to keep up and likely will always be an outsider here.

I think this just is not the right place for me.

I'm the PP to whom you're responding. This context helps. Any workplace where people go out socially 4-5 times a WEEK, and you also are being told by your supervisor that you should join in, is not a good workplace. Period. The company culture is strongly conducive only to unattached employees who not only don't have family obligations but who seem not to have many social outlets, interests or friends other than their workmates.

Hard no. Start looking for another job. "Fit" matters and this is a terrible fit. I hope you find a job with work you like as much as you like the work there. But the culture isn't going to change. I'd double down on doing fantastic work and being super, super nice while AT work, while also looking for another job. I'm sorry, OP.

How odd that the toxic woman made alcohol an issue when it sounds as if the culture is one where people drink together outside work--? Maybe some projection going on there. Weird. But do not waste time thinking about her lies any more. Spend that energy on doing great work while you also slide the hell out.

[Anonymous]

The more you post, the more you have to realize that this workplace is very, very sick. And the reality you can’t fix it. This woman’s behavior is just one symptom of a major problem. Gray rock her while you job hunt. This environment isn’t going to get better — and it really isn’t about this woman at all.