Law school at age 40 to get a government or in-house counsel job?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really doesn’t seem like a good idea at his age. Maybe get a non-lawyer job at the SEC or FINRA? I’m sure they would love to have him with that experience.

He's been searching for several months, and there is virtually nothing for people with investments experience (vs. corporate finance/accounting). Just one specific office at the DFC, but even that one has a lot of travel, so seems intense...and he has applied for several jobs there with no results.

SEC hires lawyers and economists, not niche PE guys. He hasn't been able to find anything in finance at 40-45 hours/week, even at a much lower salary.

It feels really hard to be trapped at age 37. He's so unhappy and all he wants to do is to work normal hours so he can spend time with the kids and have a life.

If he's a finance guy, he should be looking at analyst and examiner positions at the federal banking agencies.

... but he doesn't want to be on the road (examiner positions) or ever work more than 40 hours or supervise AND earn $200K... He's looking for a unicorn position whether it is finance or legal. It might be out there but they're aren't many of them.

The scarce, desirable unicorn legal jobs aren’t going to go to a 40something fresh umd law grad with no legal experience .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really doesn’t seem like a good idea at his age. Maybe get a non-lawyer job at the SEC or FINRA? I’m sure they would love to have him with that experience.

He's been searching for several months, and there is virtually nothing for people with investments experience (vs. corporate finance/accounting). Just one specific office at the DFC, but even that one has a lot of travel, so seems intense...and he has applied for several jobs there with no results.

SEC hires lawyers and economists, not niche PE guys. He hasn't been able to find anything in finance at 40-45 hours/week, even at a much lower salary.

It feels really hard to be trapped at age 37. He's so unhappy and all he wants to do is to work normal hours so he can spend time with the kids and have a life.

If he's a finance guy, he should be looking at analyst and examiner positions at the federal banking agencies.

... but he doesn't want to be on the road (examiner positions) or ever work more than 40 hours or supervise AND earn $200K... He's looking for a unicorn position whether it is finance or legal. It might be out there but they're aren't many of them.

Well, now you’re just whining. Sounds like he’s got to think outside the box, hustle a bit, and stop acting so entitled. He’ll get there.

$200k mandatory salary at 37 - you guys sound trapped in a cage of your own making. Try being poor and earning less. It’s actually possible.

[Anonymous]

In house jobs aren’t for people with no legal experience, it doesn’t matter what you’ve been doing before. So he’d graduate in three years, let’s say work for five and then maybe get hired in house in his late forties. At which point age discrimination is setting in. And that assumes he’s done well in school, passed the bar, and managed to secure a decent job before trying to go in in house. This is not a plan. Also, this isn’t true everywhere, but our GC likes to hire people from good schools.

[Anonymous]

He should get an accounting degree part time while working and get a certification. He probably has all the credits. Won’t be 200k though you need to downgrade your lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Most in house lawyers are picked up from firms that do work for the company, so they have a known quantity. You don’t just go law school to in house.

[Anonymous]

He could look into procurement/contracting and get a certification but that would also not be a GS-15 position. Maybe a GS 11/12, but that would be a 40 hour work week. The thing is that it is almost impossible to get a 40 hour work week right out of law school unless it is a judicial law clerk position and those pay around $60,000 these days (and they only last 1-2 years).

[Anonymous]

OP is either a troll or simply out of touch. She wants to stay home and bake cookies for her kids. Her husband wants to earn $200k straight out of UMD law school, but doesn't want to travel or work more than 40 hours a week. I'm sure there are jobs out there like that, but there's probably not a lot of them. And, the ones that are available are probably highly selective and competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He could look into procurement/contracting and get a certification but that would also not be a GS-15 position. Maybe a GS 11/12, but that would be a 40 hour work week. The thing is that it is almost impossible to get a 40 hour work week right out of law school unless it is a judicial law clerk position and those pay around $60,000 these days (and they only last 1-2 years).

Judicial law clerk positions are competitive. Not many UMD Law grads become judicial law clerks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He could look into procurement/contracting and get a certification but that would also not be a GS-15 position. Maybe a GS 11/12, but that would be a 40 hour work week. The thing is that it is almost impossible to get a 40 hour work week right out of law school unless it is a judicial law clerk position and those pay around $60,000 these days (and they only last 1-2 years).

Judicial law clerk positions are competitive. Not many UMD Law grads become judicial law clerks.

Maybe not federal ones but I imagine the state trial courts would take UMD grads. DC Superior Court takes AU/Howard/Catholic level grads all the time (or at least they used to).

[Anonymous]

The federal government doesn’t want people who want to make 200K out of law school (do some research).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are the job prospects for someone graduating the law school at University of Maryland at age 40 and looking to get into government or in-house legal work? Prior experience is all in PE/hedge fund. Do you have to basically start over? Is a 200k salary working 40 hours/week realistic?

DH really wants to make this switch because he can't find a 40 hour/week job in investing (government, nonprofit, or private sector), and his heart isn't in finance anymore, and he's always been interested in doing legal work. He worked closely with lawyers on the legal aspects of deals and feels like legal work is a good fit for him. We do not have a ton of savings, I'm in a low paid field, but we wouldn't go into debt for this degree. I want to be supportive but just not sure if he will be able to get the kind of job he wants.

Expecting to only work 40 hours per week is unreasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, a 200k salary is not realistic in government straight out of law school. Have him look at a GS scale.

He has, and GS-15 is close to that salary, but it sounds like it would not be realistic to get there within a couple of years?

That is not typical, no. You can always find somebody who says they were hired as a 15 or made 15 really fast, but for most people it is a 5+ year ladder from entry to GS-15 step 1 (which is not $200k). And from there, you can move up the step ladder somewhat fast at the beginning but the wait between higher steps is longer.

I got my 15 at DOJ after 4 years (I started as an HP attorney). When I left at 7 years the colleague in the office across the hall from me, who came in as a lateral with about 2 years of experience, still didn't have their 15. GS-15 isn't guaranteed. Not at DOJ, anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, a 200k salary is not realistic in government straight out of law school. Have him look at a GS scale.

He has, and GS-15 is close to that salary, but it sounds like it would not be realistic to get there within a couple of years?

That is not typical, no. You can always find somebody who says they were hired as a 15 or made 15 really fast, but for most people it is a 5+ year ladder from entry to GS-15 step 1 (which is not $200k). And from there, you can move up the step ladder somewhat fast at the beginning but the wait between higher steps is longer.

I got my 15 at DOJ after 4 years (I started as an HP attorney). When I left at 7 years the colleague in the office across the hall from me, who came in as a lateral with about 2 years of experience, still didn't have their 15. GS-15 isn't guaranteed. Not at DOJ, anyway.

I'm this PP ^^. I'll add that I never worked 40hrs a week. Always more, and often quite a bit more. I was also on the road a lot, attorneys in DOJ litigating divisions are road warriors. If OP's DH were to go that route, well, lol, he's not going to be home and he's going to be working a hell of a lot more than 40 hours. Which is, at least the way OP makes it sound, what he is whining about right now -- not wanting to work more than 40 hours a week.

OP, law is not for your DH.

Oh, and in-house jobs tend to go to law firm associates or counsel that companies have already worked with (having used the law firm where they worked) and trust. They don't do on campus interviews for in-house counsel jobs, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, a 200k salary is not realistic in government straight out of law school. Have him look at a GS scale.

He has, and GS-15 is close to that salary, but it sounds like it would not be realistic to get there within a couple of years?

That is not typical, no. You can always find somebody who says they were hired as a 15 or made 15 really fast, but for most people it is a 5+ year ladder from entry to GS-15 step 1 (which is not $200k). And from there, you can move up the step ladder somewhat fast at the beginning but the wait between higher steps is longer.

I got my 15 at DOJ after 4 years (I started as an HP attorney). When I left at 7 years the colleague in the office across the hall from me, who came in as a lateral with about 2 years of experience, still didn't have their 15. GS-15 isn't guaranteed. Not at DOJ, anyway.

DP here, I made GS-15 after 5 years at my agency, but I did private practice first so I had 9-10 years experience total and had taken a massive pay cut to enter government as a GS-13. Also, promotions are a "right time right place" situation: after I got the 15, there was not another 15 opening in my office until I left. However, I have worked mostly 40 hours/week while in government, even as a 15: it is definitely possible if you choose your roles carefully and only go over 40 for true emergencies. I did not choose trial work, obvs.

[Anonymous]

As discussed upthread, this is an unrealistic ambition for a variety of reasons - UMD doesn't have the necessary prestige to place many new graduates into highly competitive roles, a mid-career career-changer will face skepticism in the job market and will be competing with younger and less expensive applicants with the same level of experience and education, the desired salary is out of reach for most new law school graduates and even for many experienced attorneys apart from those in roles which are hard to obtain, the financial opportunity cost is hugely significant if the plan is to stop working for three years while paying for law school, etc.

While it's evident that a career change is desired, it seems obvious that this plan has a low probability of success. More creative and pragmatic thinking is called for - how can you reduce expenses so the desired income is not necessary? What other new careers might be sufficiently fulfilling, not very demanding of time, and pay enough for the family to manage on - law is probably not the answer.

To not want to work more than 40 hrs/week implies a lack of commitment and ambition to any employer; their more highly compensated roles will not meet that criterion.

Maybe study accounting part-time, sit for the CPA exam eventually, and seek a role as a staff accountant in an accounting firm or in a company accounting/finance department. Or, if sales appeals, consider acquiring financial planning credentials and going into investment sales and "Wealth management".