DS12 close to A-meets but not quite

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

I was actually referring to effort in winter practices. Honestly, I think it comes down to athleticism. Extra effort will only go so far. Have seen plenty of kids excel swimmers twice a week, and plenty of kids stay mediocre swimming 5x week.

NP - swimming is incredibly technical. So, while athleticism certainly helps, it's the people who have outstanding technique *and* are athletic who excel. And if you have a 12+ year old kid who started early and developed good technique, they can maintain that on ~2 practices a week. They won't hold a candle to kids with good technique and who swim 5x/week, usually.

If kids are truly "mediocre" swimmers with 5+ practices/week, something's off, either in coaching or effort or whatever else. We also may have different definitions of mediocre.

I’m guessing it’s the difference in what people consider mediocre. For me, I would consider kids that plateau at the BB level, just short of making champs cuts, as mediocre. My swimmer is with a big club and there are definitely kids that show up every day and put in the work that can’t make champs cuts or maybe sneak in a couple cuts right before they age up. A lot of those kids transition out of the 5-6 day a week practice groups as they reach the end of MS though.

PP you're replying to - it's the bolded. I don't consider kids with BB cuts/can't make champs to be mediocre. It's hard for me to use that term to apply to kids' sports generally, tbh, given the negative connotations - especially not ones working their tails off 5+ days/week, and who aren't particularly fast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

I was actually referring to effort in winter practices. Honestly, I think it comes down to athleticism. Extra effort will only go so far. Have seen plenty of kids excel swimmers twice a week, and plenty of kids stay mediocre swimming 5x week.

NP - swimming is incredibly technical. So, while athleticism certainly helps, it's the people who have outstanding technique *and* are athletic who excel. And if you have a 12+ year old kid who started early and developed good technique, they can maintain that on ~2 practices a week. They won't hold a candle to kids with good technique and who swim 5x/week, usually.

If kids are truly "mediocre" swimmers with 5+ practices/week, something's off, either in coaching or effort or whatever else. We also may have different definitions of mediocre.

I’m guessing it’s the difference in what people consider mediocre. For me, I would consider kids that plateau at the BB level, just short of making champs cuts, as mediocre. My swimmer is with a big club and there are definitely kids that show up every day and put in the work that can’t make champs cuts or maybe sneak in a couple cuts right before they age up. A lot of those kids transition out of the 5-6 day a week practice groups as they reach the end of MS though.

PP you're replying to - it's the bolded. I don't consider kids with BB cuts/can't make champs to be mediocre. It's hard for me to use that term to apply to kids' sports generally, tbh, given the negative connotations - especially not ones working their tails off 5+ days/week, and who aren't particularly fast.

Do you prefer middling? If you participate in a sport based on races and you aren't particularly fast, then you aren't particularly good at the sport

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

I was actually referring to effort in winter practices. Honestly, I think it comes down to athleticism. Extra effort will only go so far. Have seen plenty of kids excel swimmers twice a week, and plenty of kids stay mediocre swimming 5x week.

NP - swimming is incredibly technical. So, while athleticism certainly helps, it's the people who have outstanding technique *and* are athletic who excel. And if you have a 12+ year old kid who started early and developed good technique, they can maintain that on ~2 practices a week. They won't hold a candle to kids with good technique and who swim 5x/week, usually.

If kids are truly "mediocre" swimmers with 5+ practices/week, something's off, either in coaching or effort or whatever else. We also may have different definitions of mediocre.

I’m guessing it’s the difference in what people consider mediocre. For me, I would consider kids that plateau at the BB level, just short of making champs cuts, as mediocre. My swimmer is with a big club and there are definitely kids that show up every day and put in the work that can’t make champs cuts or maybe sneak in a couple cuts right before they age up. A lot of those kids transition out of the 5-6 day a week practice groups as they reach the end of MS though.

PP you're replying to - it's the bolded. I don't consider kids with BB cuts/can't make champs to be mediocre. It's hard for me to use that term to apply to kids' sports generally, tbh, given the negative connotations - especially not ones working their tails off 5+ days/week, and who aren't particularly fast.

I’m the PP and I understand the difficulty in applying the term mediocre to kids. However, if you’re noting kids that aren’t particularly fast, that’s by definition mediocre. That’s one of the good things about the variety of swim options in this area though, if you’re an NCAP/RMSC swimmer not making cuts people will say you’re mediocre, but you can join a more low key club and be a swimmer that others consider fast. Same with summer swim, you can be a mediocre club swimmer but if you’re in a lower division chances are you’re still better than most of the other swimmers on the team and everyone thinks of you as fast.

[Anonymous]

There's no real prie for being in an A meet.

No one cares once summer is over.

The meets and divisions are built to group similar swimmers together. Being in a different meet doesn't mean anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

I was actually referring to effort in winter practices. Honestly, I think it comes down to athleticism. Extra effort will only go so far. Have seen plenty of kids excel swimmers twice a week, and plenty of kids stay mediocre swimming 5x week.

NP - swimming is incredibly technical. So, while athleticism certainly helps, it's the people who have outstanding technique *and* are athletic who excel. And if you have a 12+ year old kid who started early and developed good technique, they can maintain that on ~2 practices a week. They won't hold a candle to kids with good technique and who swim 5x/week, usually.

If kids are truly "mediocre" swimmers with 5+ practices/week, something's off, either in coaching or effort or whatever else. We also may have different definitions of mediocre.

I’m guessing it’s the difference in what people consider mediocre. For me, I would consider kids that plateau at the BB level, just short of making champs cuts, as mediocre. My swimmer is with a big club and there are definitely kids that show up every day and put in the work that can’t make champs cuts or maybe sneak in a couple cuts right before they age up. A lot of those kids transition out of the 5-6 day a week practice groups as they reach the end of MS though.

I think some data would help here - BB times are the 35% percentile, so a kid with BB times is swimming in the top 35% of their age group and gender. But the unknown number is what percentage of kids in that age group are swimming regularly.

At our club, about 25% pay the monthly dues and come sporadically, 30% come somewhat regularly but don’t do a lot of meets, 30% come regularly and do an average number of meets and are B/BB swimmers, and 15% are A or better swimmers, which line up with the motivational time standards (B = top 55%, BB = top 35%, A = top 15% etc).

In short, BB swimmers are doing just fine and are above average. My BB 12 year old just got his first sectionals cut as a 15 year old. And my AAA 10 year old was a BB 11 year old, then an AAA 12 year old. Hard to say where it will all end up, but the kids who work harder tend to get the better results by the time they are 15/16.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did he hit puberty? That has made a difference for my son (now 14).

No, he isn’t there yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

I was actually referring to effort in winter practices. Honestly, I think it comes down to athleticism. Extra effort will only go so far. Have seen plenty of kids excel swimmers twice a week, and plenty of kids stay mediocre swimming 5x week.

NP - swimming is incredibly technical. So, while athleticism certainly helps, it's the people who have outstanding technique *and* are athletic who excel. And if you have a 12+ year old kid who started early and developed good technique, they can maintain that on ~2 practices a week. They won't hold a candle to kids with good technique and who swim 5x/week, usually.

If kids are truly "mediocre" swimmers with 5+ practices/week, something's off, either in coaching or effort or whatever else. We also may have different definitions of mediocre.

I’m guessing it’s the difference in what people consider mediocre. For me, I would consider kids that plateau at the BB level, just short of making champs cuts, as mediocre. My swimmer is with a big club and there are definitely kids that show up every day and put in the work that can’t make champs cuts or maybe sneak in a couple cuts right before they age up. A lot of those kids transition out of the 5-6 day a week practice groups as they reach the end of MS though.

PP you're replying to - it's the bolded. I don't consider kids with BB cuts/can't make champs to be mediocre. It's hard for me to use that term to apply to kids' sports generally, tbh, given the negative connotations - especially not ones working their tails off 5+ days/week, and who aren't particularly fast.

Do you prefer middling? If you participate in a sport based on races and you aren't particularly fast, then you aren't particularly good at the sport

It’s all relative. Would love to see you jump in and race any of these “middling” kids, PP.

[Anonymous]

My kid started swimming seriously at 12. It took him two years to catch up to the fast swimmers, but he did. He practices 5 times a week and has taken private lessons to clean up his technique. He is super dedicated and hardworking. He consistently makes A meets now and is trying even harder to beat his times. It can be done, but he has to work hard for it.