DS12 close to A-meets but not quite

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many 12 year olds are swimming 5-6 days a week….

And burnt out and hate swimming when they reach their puberty…

I know 2 fast swimmers in the 15-18 age group who both have vertebral fractures from swim. Apparently it’s a common overuse injury. Can you imagine having that at age 16-17? Lordy. These kids are overworked. They’re great kids and swimmers but they’re not going to swim D1 or anything. I just don’t see the point of swimming that much, even if you love it, and risking such injury.

I feel terrible for those kids but there is inherent risk with anything. The world is so much more connected so we all know of anecdotes of bad stuff happening and it ends up making us risk averse. I would never want people to do stuff known to be harmful but I also would hate for kids to be too scared of doing something they love because they might get hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

I was actually referring to effort in winter practices. Honestly, I think it comes down to athleticism. Extra effort will only go so far. Have seen plenty of kids excel swimmers twice a week, and plenty of kids stay mediocre swimming 5x week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

I was actually referring to effort in winter practices. Honestly, I think it comes down to athleticism. Extra effort will only go so far. Have seen plenty of kids excel swimmers twice a week, and plenty of kids stay mediocre swimming 5x week.

I can’t say I’ve seen many top level swimmers over the age of 12 that only practice 2x a week (you can sprint 50s well practicing only 2x a week if you’re naturally talented, so the 12U groups have plenty of kids that succeed with less time in the water), but there are definitely plenty of decent swimmers who work hard but can’t get past the BB level. The DMV has so many different clubs that thrive because swimmers of all levels are willing to commit time to the sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many 12 year olds are swimming 5-6 days a week….

OP: they really are quite good. The three other kids who make the A-meet are 2x/weeks swimmer and swim with him so the heartburn. He enjoys the sport, so that’s good.

What about the other kids? An A meet requires 6 kids per age group. 4 strokes and 3 lanes per stroke, with each swimmer being allowed 2 swims

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of the kids goofing off are with the same coaches working hard at 5 or 6 am club practice

[Anonymous]

On most teams, a 12 year old who swims year round even just twice a week has a decent shot at making A meets. But this is very team and division dependent. If your team’s roster of 11-12 boys is very deep and full of year round club swimmers, then it is harder to qualify for A meets even if you are a good swimmer.

Also, things can change from year to year as the kids age into and out of age groups and puberty hits. I would encourage OP and son to stay the course and only add in more practices during the year if he really wants it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

I was actually referring to effort in winter practices. Honestly, I think it comes down to athleticism. Extra effort will only go so far. Have seen plenty of kids excel swimmers twice a week, and plenty of kids stay mediocre swimming 5x week.

Yep. My kids are like this. S
During the year on average twice a week, but swim maximum events in A meets. Of course they still get blown away by the kids who are natural athletes AND practice 5-6 times a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

I was actually referring to effort in winter practices. Honestly, I think it comes down to athleticism. Extra effort will only go so far. Have seen plenty of kids excel swimmers twice a week, and plenty of kids stay mediocre swimming 5x week.

Perhaps for 10u, yes. I have a kid who was fast as a 10u swimming twice a week. But now as a 12u, he is putting in the hours to keep up. I have had kids in swim for 6 years and the kids who come to practice and really make the most of each practice are rewarded. You will have kids that are the exception, of course. David popovici has an interview where he says he goofed off and won on talent until he was a teen, but then again, that’s David Popovici.

[Anonymous]

Did he hit puberty? That has made a difference for my son (now 14).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many 12 year olds are swimming 5-6 days a week….

IME with the short summer 50s you can sometimes get by with not swimming 5-6 days a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many 12 year olds are swimming 5-6 days a week….

IME with the short summer 50s you can sometimes get by with not swimming 5-6 days a week.

The kids swimming more often tend to have better turns. At 12, a great turn can be the difference between 1st and 4th

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

I was actually referring to effort in winter practices. Honestly, I think it comes down to athleticism. Extra effort will only go so far. Have seen plenty of kids excel swimmers twice a week, and plenty of kids stay mediocre swimming 5x week.

NP - swimming is incredibly technical. So, while athleticism certainly helps, it's the people who have outstanding technique *and* are athletic who excel. And if you have a 12+ year old kid who started early and developed good technique, they can maintain that on ~2 practices a week. They won't hold a candle to kids with good technique and who swim 5x/week, usually.

If kids are truly "mediocre" swimmers with 5+ practices/week, something's off, either in coaching or effort or whatever else. We also may have different definitions of mediocre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, minor point, but shift your mindset so that you and your son do not think of the selection process as “getting picked”. The swimmers qualify to swim the A meets, they are not “picked”. This puts the power into their own hands, not the coaches.

Your son is 12- by that age, he is able to express his goals and be proactive in putting in the work. Watch him at practice and see where he is on the spectrum of putting his head down, pushing himself and trying to max every practice or having fun with his friends, goofing off and behaving like a typical 12 year old in summer mode. If it’s the latter and he isn’t asking for more practice, let him be. If he is committing to every practice and leaving exhausted, then you can help him by offering extra lessons. Swim is a sport where kids who focus and try hard in practice will improve, while kids who go through the motions of practice but cheat by skipping sets, pulling on the lane lines, prefer to talk to friends instead of swim, etc, will not. A lot of times parents don’t understand why their kids are not improving as much as they should, and when they watch a practice, it becomes obvious. Start with assessing how your son practices and then go from there.

I used to think this, but watched some practices this year. Swimmers who were goofing off and not trying, looked bored and disinterested, are now near the top of the ladder. Others worked hard and are near the bottom. I've seen kids swim 5-6 days per week and improve marginally, while others quit winter swim and come back the following summer still top of the ladder. I don't underneath the rhyme or reason to it.

Some of this is also team dependent. Some teams have a large group of fast kids in particular ages/genders while other ages/genders are exceptionally weak. Particularly once you get to the age groups over 12, the top teams’ fastest swimmers are generally club kids. What club swimmers are doing in summer swim practice matters very little to how they perform at meets.

I was actually referring to effort in winter practices. Honestly, I think it comes down to athleticism. Extra effort will only go so far. Have seen plenty of kids excel swimmers twice a week, and plenty of kids stay mediocre swimming 5x week.

NP - swimming is incredibly technical. So, while athleticism certainly helps, it's the people who have outstanding technique *and* are athletic who excel. And if you have a 12+ year old kid who started early and developed good technique, they can maintain that on ~2 practices a week. They won't hold a candle to kids with good technique and who swim 5x/week, usually.

If kids are truly "mediocre" swimmers with 5+ practices/week, something's off, either in coaching or effort or whatever else. We also may have different definitions of mediocre.

I’m guessing it’s the difference in what people consider mediocre. For me, I would consider kids that plateau at the BB level, just short of making champs cuts, as mediocre. My swimmer is with a big club and there are definitely kids that show up every day and put in the work that can’t make champs cuts or maybe sneak in a couple cuts right before they age up. A lot of those kids transition out of the 5-6 day a week practice groups as they reach the end of MS though.