Raising third grader can’t identify vowels and consonants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does he just not know the difference between vowels and consonants? That's basic memorization. If he's reading well, he should be able to learn which is which fairly easily.

This. It’s not explicitly taught anymore. Just a heads up, neither is grammar. My straight A honors middle schooler will still double check with me what an adverb is.

+1 They don’t teach grammar. It is sad.

[Anonymous]

If he can read at or above grade level without prior intervention, it’s unlikely at this point he is dyslexic. You’d have a hint by now. He simply wasn’t taught which specific letter are vowels. Don’t worry about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are only 5 vowels (plus sometimes y). Memorize the 5 vowels. There must always be 1 vowel in each word. So cAt and the A is the vowel. In shY - the Y acts like a vowel. But it really doesn't matter that much whether you know your vowels and consonants if you are reading and spelling well.

Definitely do not turn to an App - studies are showing how these don't have the effects you think they will.

I'm curious what research you're referring to about what kind of apps. The AAR app a PP recommended is called Phonogram Sounds, and it's not a game or lesson or anything. It just has all the letters (vowels are red) and when you click them it tells you the sounds. It also has groups for blends, etc.

I'm a native English speaker but don't pronounce everything perfectly, so I'm not the best to help my kids who had some issues. The app was helpful for my child and even for me. The app sounds just great for this family. I also use their curriculum, with which you can use another another app. I don't use it because you can choose to use physical magnets on a white board instead, so I can't speak to that one.

I agree with the other poster(s) who mentioned spelling. Spelling issues can reveal deeper misunderstandings of the English language, especially when "reading" has really been memorization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only 5 vowels (plus sometimes y). Memorize the 5 vowels. There must always be 1 vowel in each word. So cAt and the A is the vowel. In shY - the Y acts like a vowel. But it really doesn't matter that much whether you know your vowels and consonants if you are reading and spelling well.

Definitely do not turn to an App - studies are showing how these don't have the effects you think they will.

I'm curious what research you're referring to about what kind of apps. The AAR app a PP recommended is called Phonogram Sounds, and it's not a game or lesson or anything. It just has all the letters (vowels are red) and when you click them it tells you the sounds. It also has groups for blends, etc.

I'm a native English speaker but don't pronounce everything perfectly, so I'm not the best to help my kids who had some issues. The app was helpful for my child and even for me. The app sounds just great for this family. I also use their curriculum, with which you can use another another app. I don't use it because you can choose to use physical magnets on a white board instead, so I can't speak to that one.

I agree with the other poster(s) who mentioned spelling. Spelling issues can reveal deeper misunderstandings of the English language, especially when "reading" has really been memorization.

If he is “reading well” in 3rd grade, he is well beyond memorizing worlds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If he can read at or above grade level without prior intervention, it’s unlikely at this point he is dyslexic. You’d have a hint by now. He simply wasn’t taught which specific letter are vowels. Don’t worry about it.

Op here. We will keep our eye on it. I’m not paying out of pocket for an evaluation if he’s not struggling. Thanks so much for the feedback. I was thinking third grade May touch on these topics because they help with pronunciation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have yet to hear that your son actually has any problems reading?

Agree. Do not see an issue if he is reading well.

-- Teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does he just not know the difference between vowels and consonants? That's basic memorization. If he's reading well, he should be able to learn which is which fairly easily.

Op here. Yes and the workbook asks stuff like ‘mark the vowel you hear in each word to show whether it has the long or short sound’

‘circle the consonant blends’

‘ on the blank before each word write the sound of the underlined letters

Examples: hauled , spoiled

And ‘ when a root word has a short vowel sound followed by only one consonant, double the final consonant before adding “ed” or “ing”

You need to learn phonics so you can teach him properly.

.

Op here. That’s not going to happen. It’s going to drive me crazy.

You're not too old to learn English phonics rules. Don't listen to anyone who says there are no rules. There are just lots of rules because the language comes from many other languages. English has a lot of loan words from French and Latin but the substrate language is Germanic. Learning the origin of words helps immensely. And the difference between a vowel and consonant is not a matter of memorizing as the other poster said. Your mouth opens differently for a vowel vs consonant. (English is not my native language either but I did study it much more formally than a typical language learner.) Helps to have a positive attitude.

Op here. I don’t have the time or patience to learn in. I’m expecting right now, work FT and in FT grad school. I can get an online tutor for him if it’s really important. I know I am not the right person to help him or either is DH. This workbook is something I picked up myself. The school hasn’t said anything about this.

I would get an online tutor or sign him up for online summer classes (I think Outschool has some). I am a native English speaker, and I don't have dyslexia and I still find phonics reading instruction confusing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does he just not know the difference between vowels and consonants? That's basic memorization. If he's reading well, he should be able to learn which is which fairly easily.

Op here. Yes and the workbook asks stuff like ‘mark the vowel you hear in each word to show whether it has the long or short sound’

‘circle the consonant blends’

‘ on the blank before each word write the sound of the underlined letters

Examples: hauled , spoiled

And ‘ when a root word has a short vowel sound followed by only one consonant, double the final consonant before adding “ed” or “ing”

You need to learn phonics so you can teach him properly.

.

Op here. That’s not going to happen. It’s going to drive me crazy.

You're not too old to learn English phonics rules. Don't listen to anyone who says there are no rules. There are just lots of rules because the language comes from many other languages. English has a lot of loan words from French and Latin but the substrate language is Germanic. Learning the origin of words helps immensely. And the difference between a vowel and consonant is not a matter of memorizing as the other poster said. Your mouth opens differently for a vowel vs consonant. (English is not my native language either but I did study it much more formally than a typical language learner.) Helps to have a positive attitude.

Op here. I don’t have the time or patience to learn in. I’m expecting right now, work FT and in FT grad school. I can get an online tutor for him if it’s really important. I know I am not the right person to help him or either is DH. This workbook is something I picked up myself. The school hasn’t said anything about this.

I would get an online tutor or sign him up for online summer classes (I think Outschool has some). I am a native English speaker, and I don't have dyslexia and I still find phonics reading instruction confusing.

Op here. I thought of doing out school or there is a class at a university close to us through the reading institute. It’s. 5 weeks . They meet once a week and do online work in between and it cost $350 . Dh thinks it’s too expensive but I’m still thinking about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does he just not know the difference between vowels and consonants? That's basic memorization. If he's reading well, he should be able to learn which is which fairly easily.

Op here. Yes and the workbook asks stuff like ‘mark the vowel you hear in each word to show whether it has the long or short sound’

‘circle the consonant blends’

‘ on the blank before each word write the sound of the underlined letters

Examples: hauled , spoiled

And ‘ when a root word has a short vowel sound followed by only one consonant, double the final consonant before adding “ed” or “ing”

You need to learn phonics so you can teach him properly.

.

Op here. That’s not going to happen. It’s going to drive me crazy.

You're not too old to learn English phonics rules. Don't listen to anyone who says there are no rules. There are just lots of rules because the language comes from many other languages. English has a lot of loan words from French and Latin but the substrate language is Germanic. Learning the origin of words helps immensely. And the difference between a vowel and consonant is not a matter of memorizing as the other poster said. Your mouth opens differently for a vowel vs consonant. (English is not my native language either but I did study it much more formally than a typical language learner.) Helps to have a positive attitude.

Op here. I don’t have the time or patience to learn in. I’m expecting right now, work FT and in FT grad school. I can get an online tutor for him if it’s really important. I know I am not the right person to help him or either is DH. This workbook is something I picked up myself. The school hasn’t said anything about this.

I would get an online tutor or sign him up for online summer classes (I think Outschool has some). I am a native English speaker, and I don't have dyslexia and I still find phonics reading instruction confusing.

Op here. I thought of doing out school or there is a class at a university close to us through the reading institute. It’s. 5 weeks . They meet once a week and do online work in between and it cost $350 . Dh thinks it’s too expensive but I’m still thinking about it.

Out School will be a lot less than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only 5 vowels (plus sometimes y). Memorize the 5 vowels. There must always be 1 vowel in each word. So cAt and the A is the vowel. In shY - the Y acts like a vowel. But it really doesn't matter that much whether you know your vowels and consonants if you are reading and spelling well.

Definitely do not turn to an App - studies are showing how these don't have the effects you think they will.

I'm curious what research you're referring to about what kind of apps. The AAR app a PP recommended is called Phonogram Sounds, and it's not a game or lesson or anything. It just has all the letters (vowels are red) and when you click them it tells you the sounds. It also has groups for blends, etc.

I'm a native English speaker but don't pronounce everything perfectly, so I'm not the best to help my kids who had some issues. The app was helpful for my child and even for me. The app sounds just great for this family. I also use their curriculum, with which you can use another another app. I don't use it because you can choose to use physical magnets on a white board instead, so I can't speak to that one.

I agree with the other poster(s) who mentioned spelling. Spelling issues can reveal deeper misunderstandings of the English language, especially when "reading" has really been memorization.

1. Learning the phonograms in isolation is not a useful way to learn to read.
2. For profit Apps/reading programs are a waste of money. You could have learned to read for free in any of a number of different ways.
3. Writing with a pencil and paper is much more effective for learning to read. You activate the connection between your brain, eyes and hands. Passive pushing on buttons doesn't have the same effect.
4. I'm glad it worked for you but don't push others to waste their money.

[Anonymous]

He is dyslexic

Do orton gillingham tutoring

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He is dyslexic

Do orton gillingham tutoring

Dyslexia is something that is evaluated through a diagnostic by a certified assessor. Not some dimwit on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Just a few things peering in on this conversation. I am a reading tutor (orton gillingham certified) who works with kids who have learning disabilities as well as those who don't. Including advanced readers.

The reason being able to identify consonants and vowels (and consonant) blends is important is that it allows kids to decode words with which they are unfamiliar. For young readers this could include a huge range of words they will encounter in academic texts fiction because most children are not having conversations or consuming media with a very large vocabulary (this is a separate issue but it's generally true).

Until the return to phonics over the last few years many kids were being taught with a method that emphasized memorization and guessing using context. This method has now been broadly debunked but it's very likely that OP's son was taught using this method with less emphasis on phonics. Which is why he doesn't know vowels versus consonants or consonant blends (which are taught explicitly in phonics instruction).

To me this would be a red flag. Meaning I would investigate to see how big the problem is. As a tutor my first areas of inquiry would be whether he has an understanding of syllables (whether taught or intuitive -- some kids figure this out on their own) as understanding of vowels is fairly central to understanding of syllables. I would then be investigating to see how he decodes both challenge words (words with unusual spelling for structure) or nonsense words to get a sense of his decoding ability and whether his lack of understanding around consonants and vowels is impacting this ability.

I would also be looking at all his reading assessments. What's his DIBELs score and how has it changed from the beginning of the year? Schools often also do other testing including something like i-Ready and district-wide assessments that are intended to assess school performance but may also provide a snapshot of his literacy as well as a chance to compare against his prior performance and his peer group. I'd look at all of this and also ask for explanations of anything you don't understand from the teacher.

It's possible he's doing fine but especially given OP's experience with dyslexia and being a non-native speaker and reader there are good reasons here to investigate this further just to make sure there are no issues.

Also sorry about the lack of punctuation in my post -- my keyboard has some nonfunctional keys at the moment!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only 5 vowels (plus sometimes y). Memorize the 5 vowels. There must always be 1 vowel in each word. So cAt and the A is the vowel. In shY - the Y acts like a vowel. But it really doesn't matter that much whether you know your vowels and consonants if you are reading and spelling well.

Definitely do not turn to an App - studies are showing how these don't have the effects you think they will.

I'm curious what research you're referring to about what kind of apps. The AAR app a PP recommended is called Phonogram Sounds, and it's not a game or lesson or anything. It just has all the letters (vowels are red) and when you click them it tells you the sounds. It also has groups for blends, etc.

I'm a native English speaker but don't pronounce everything perfectly, so I'm not the best to help my kids who had some issues. The app was helpful for my child and even for me. The app sounds just great for this family. I also use their curriculum, with which you can use another another app. I don't use it because you can choose to use physical magnets on a white board instead, so I can't speak to that one.

I agree with the other poster(s) who mentioned spelling. Spelling issues can reveal deeper misunderstandings of the English language, especially when "reading" has really been memorization.

If he is “reading well” in 3rd grade, he is well beyond memorizing worlds.

He's only finished 2nd grade, but either way, I vehemently disagree with this. "Reading well" as judged by teachers often includes memorizing/predicting. Many, many kids can fake it for quit a while, certainly through second grade. My kid definitely did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only 5 vowels (plus sometimes y). Memorize the 5 vowels. There must always be 1 vowel in each word. So cAt and the A is the vowel. In shY - the Y acts like a vowel. But it really doesn't matter that much whether you know your vowels and consonants if you are reading and spelling well.

Definitely do not turn to an App - studies are showing how these don't have the effects you think they will.

I'm curious what research you're referring to about what kind of apps. The AAR app a PP recommended is called Phonogram Sounds, and it's not a game or lesson or anything. It just has all the letters (vowels are red) and when you click them it tells you the sounds. It also has groups for blends, etc.

I'm a native English speaker but don't pronounce everything perfectly, so I'm not the best to help my kids who had some issues. The app was helpful for my child and even for me. The app sounds just great for this family. I also use their curriculum, with which you can use another another app. I don't use it because you can choose to use physical magnets on a white board instead, so I can't speak to that one.

I agree with the other poster(s) who mentioned spelling. Spelling issues can reveal deeper misunderstandings of the English language, especially when "reading" has really been memorization.

1. Learning the phonograms in isolation is not a useful way to learn to read.
2. For profit Apps/reading programs are a waste of money. You could have learned to read for free in any of a number of different ways.
3. Writing with a pencil and paper is much more effective for learning to read. You activate the connection between your brain, eyes and hands. Passive pushing on buttons doesn't have the same effect.
4. I'm glad it worked for you but don't push others to waste their money.

1. I didn't mean for this to be the only tool, but it sounds like there's no one in their house who knows this stuff. So it seems like A step they can take easily today.
2. This child may not be able to learn to read well for free with this mom. Not judging her; she's saying as much.
3. I agree with thr mind/movement connection in general but for many kids, it's not sufficient without some kind of explicit instruction. Many kids don't learn to read and spell well just by exposure.
4. It's free and really helped my own child.