Our city is on track to be the laughing stock of our region again

[Anonymous]

But maybe it supports the idea that the worst thing about Fenty is his supporters?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:But maybe it supports the idea that the worst thing about Fenty is his supporters?

That's true. I didn't understand that's what the earlier poster was saying.

[Anonymous]

This quote from the Post today might actually push me over to Gray's camp--

"Some straw poll attendants who identified themselves as city workers and contractors were wearing Fenty stickers. They did not want to be identified for fear of losing their jobs or contracts but said they voted for Gray."

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:I'm guessing that you weren't able to find an individual that supports what Fenty supporters are claiming "some" think. Did you notice where that blue line in your chart starts over on the far left? Those are the people being left behind. What about them? Do any of you care about them? Or, is it the Fenty line simply to declare them "nonsense"?

Again, "left behind" is a metaphor, not an objective representation of the phenomenon. It's not apropos. You claim they're "left behind", but that implies the folks on the right side of the graph were over there on the left, that Fenty's policies have brought them wealth, but have excluded those other folks.

This is exactly like having 50 middle class kids going to a school; then through the lobbying of the principal, Bill Gates sends his kids to the school. Are the middle class kids all suddenly "left behind"? How dare the principal fail to "bring along" the hard-working folks who were "left behind."

Obviously poverty is a problem, and no one said that these folks who, for one reason or another, are unemployable are "nonsense". But the framing of DC's success in attracting investment and influx of middle-class residents as "leaving the poor behind" *is* complete and utter nonsense.

If it's not, go ahead and tell us your plan to "bring these folks up to speed." Surely there's something Fenty should have been doing for the last three years, right? Otherwise there wouldn't be such a massive concentration of DC residents living <$10k HHI. Do tell.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Again, "left behind" is a metaphor, not an objective representation of the phenomenon. It's not apropos. You claim they're "left behind", but that implies the folks on the right side of the graph were over there on the left, that Fenty's policies have brought them wealth, but have excluded those other folks.

This is exactly like having 50 middle class kids going to a school; then through the lobbying of the principal, Bill Gates sends his kids to the school. Are the middle class kids all suddenly "left behind"? How dare the principal fail to "bring along" the hard-working folks who were "left behind."

Obviously poverty is a problem, and no one said that these folks who, for one reason or another, are unemployable are "nonsense". But the framing of DC's success in attracting investment and influx of middle-class residents as "leaving the poor behind" *is* complete and utter nonsense.

If it's not, go ahead and tell us your plan to "bring these folks up to speed." Surely there's something Fenty should have been doing for the last three years, right? Otherwise there wouldn't be such a massive concentration of DC residents living <$10k HHI. Do tell.

Look, are you going to provide an example of your claim that "I know there are some who think it'd be nice if we could abolish the middle-class in DC, populate it entirely with the unemployable" or not? You said that you know there are people who want to do this. Yet, you can't point to a single one. All you are doing now is trying to change the subject.

At risk of playing into your attempt to avoid supporting your prior claim, I'll address your most recent post. First, the idea that DC could ever be compared to a school having 50 middle class kids is ludicrous. A more realistic school would have a large number of lower income students, a substantial number of middle class students, and a small number of wealthy students. If policies are implemented to attract Bill Gates' son and additional middle class students, one would imagine that a number of changes would be required. Let's say that improved school lunches are introduced, but at higher cost. Attractive activities are added, but with substantial fees. No further aid to the poorer students is provided. As a result, those students can no longer obtain school lunches or participate in activities. I think the poorer students in this case would reasonably feel that they had been left behind.

A number of people in this thread have pointed out that gentrification is a double-edged sword. Given my personal situation, the fact that there are an increasing number of upscale restaurants close to my home is something that I appreciate. But, the fact that those restaurants are out of reach of a great number of residents of the surrounding community is not lost on me. Fenty, like Williams before him, has done a good job of meeting the needs of people like me. I don't thing he has done an adequate job addressing the needs of people who are seeing things grow out of their reach. The fact that I don't think such people should be ignored does not mean that I want to "abolish the middle class". It does not mean that I want to put everyone on the city's payroll. It just means that I am capable of considering the interests of others.

So, are you going to be able to provide an example of someone that wants to abolish DC's middle class or not?

[Anonymous]

Look, are you going to provide an example of your claim that "I know there are some who think it'd be nice if we could abolish the middle-class in DC, populate it entirely with the unemployable" or not? You said that you know there are people who want to do this. Yet, you can't point to a single one. All you are doing now is trying to change the subject.

Sure, as soon as you give me a specific policy that Fenty should've pursued that would avoid leaving folks behind. Instead we get vague talk about not meeting the needs of the poor, and substantial fees.

I like that you've changed the rules of the scenario: if you're going to claim that policies have been changed to attract wealthy families, name them. What are these substantial fees?

As far as "upscale restaurants", etc.. it's the exact same argument made earlier about Whole Foods, and various other businesses. I'm not reflexively pro-business, but seriously, you're saying it would be better if none of these business were located in DC? That their existence is contributing to folks being "left behind"?

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. It's exactly the mentality folks point to when they talk about the bad old days of just putting everyone on the DC payroll.

Do I understand why poor folks feel resentment at seeing a fancy restaurant open that they can't afford to eat at? Of course. It's a perfectly normal human impulse. Sure as hell doesn't make for good public policy though.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Look, are you going to provide an example of your claim that "I know there are some who think it'd be nice if we could abolish the middle-class in DC, populate it entirely with the unemployable" or not? You said that you know there are people who want to do this. Yet, you can't point to a single one. All you are doing now is trying to change the subject.

Sure, as soon as you give me a specific policy that Fenty should've pursued that would avoid leaving folks behind. Instead we get vague talk about not meeting the needs of the poor, and substantial fees.

No. We are not going to play that game. You wrote, "Now, I know there are some who think it'd be nice if we could abolish the middle-class in DC, populate it entirely with the unemployable". I hadn't even posted in this thread when you said that. I don't think anyone believes that. I think you even believe it. It's just another attempt to mischaracterize Gray supporters. It's a scare tactic and it is despicable. So, provide an example to support your claim or admit that you are pulling allegations out of your ass.

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, but that's ridiculous. It's exactly the mentality folks point to when they talk about the bad old days of just putting everyone on the DC payroll.

You know, your right about this. I expressed mixed feelings about upscale restaurants that benefit me but are out of reach of many current residents. People, people like you in fact, do point to my mixed feelings and accuse me of wanting to put everyone on the DC payroll. People who do that mischaracterize my position. Just like you and other Fenty supporters have engaged in repeated mischaracterizations of anyone not fully pledged to Team Green (for instance, I am not a Gray supporter).

It's ironic that Gray is accused of running on nothing but not being Fenty. Meanwhile, Fenty appears to be running on not being Marion Barry. If you don't believe that Fenty's tactics are rooted in a desire to benefit from a racial divide, just read this:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Gray-campaign-gathers-steam-with-straw-poll-victories-1007685-100071879.html

A high-ranking Fenty campaign member, who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak freely, noted that most of Wednesday night's voters were black. "There are other demographics in Ward 4 that will show up on primary day," the Fenty campaigner said. Fenty has been courting white voters, hoping they'll put him over the top against Gray, whose base is in the majority black neighborhoods east of the Anacostia River.

How is Fenty "courting white voters"? One way is by having his supporters tell everyone that Gray is the new Barry and that he wants to abolish the middle class.

[Anonymous]

Oh, please. you and I both know that Fenty is not the one "having his supporters tell everyone that Gray is the new Barry and he wants to abolish the middle class."

I demand you provide evidence of Fenty directing his supporters to do so! It's dispicable! Ok, I'm willing to give you a pass and chalk it up to hyperbole.

Meanwhile, I'm neither a Fenty or Gray supporter. I'm primarily a Gabe Klein supporter. Secondarily a supporter of school reform. If Gray were to make a commitment to keeping Klein aboard, and name a specific replacement for Rhee, I'd be more than willing to support him.

My guess is that he won't, because his campaign succeeds or fails on successfully playing to the resentments of disparate groups. Naming names would only thwart this strategy, alienate his coalition, and bring the whole thing crashing down.

At the end of the day, I'll probably vote Fenty because he's actually appointed people--people I think have done a fine job for the most part. And Gray is a leap of blind faith.

[Anonymous]

Oh, one last thing, from the Examiner piece:

D.C. Councilman Marion Barry attended the Ward 4 poll, flanked by members of the powerful political machine he has headed since his days as mayor. Barry hasn't endorsed any candidate, but he was spotted wearing a Gray-for-mayor sticker Wednesday night.

Now I have little patience for suburbanites who hold up Barry as a reason to deny DC residents voting rights. Clearly his multiple reelections were a something of a reaction to the political environment of the times.

But having said that, he's a toxic POS, and for whatever he once may have been, *today* he's become an almost wholly malignant force in DC politics.

His support of Gray alone is nearly enough to eliminate Gray from consideration as a candidate.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:His support of Gray alone is nearly enough to eliminate Gray from consideration as a candidate.

As your quote noted, Barry hasn't endorsed any candidate. In 2006, he endorsed Fenty. According to DC Watch, prominent Barry supporters were part of Team Green at the Ward 4 forum. I suspect Barry stuck on a Gray sticker to tweak Fenty and as a negotiating tactic. Both candidates probably want Barry's support and Barry was telling Fenty that whatever he has offered so far is not enough.

[Anonymous]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Former-drug-supplier-to-Barry-now-Fenty-campaign-contributor-97269139.html


Well, at least the campaign contributors know which two politicians are most similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, please. you and I both know that Fenty is not the one "having his supporters tell everyone that Gray is the new Barry and he wants to abolish the middle class."

I demand you provide evidence of Fenty directing his supporters to do so! It's dispicable! Ok, I'm willing to give you a pass and chalk it up to hyperbole.

Meanwhile, I'm neither a Fenty or Gray supporter. I'm primarily a Gabe Klein supporter. Secondarily a supporter of school reform. If Gray were to make a commitment to keeping Klein aboard, and name a specific replacement for Rhee, I'd be more than willing to support him.

My guess is that he won't, because his campaign succeeds or fails on successfully playing to the resentments of disparate groups. Naming names would only thwart this strategy, alienate his coalition, and bring the whole thing crashing down.

At the end of the day, I'll probably vote Fenty because he's actually appointed people--people I think have done a fine job for the most part. And Gray is a leap of blind faith.

But they seem to spend a lot of time telling people this. In fact, there are one or more posters on DCUM who are constantly comparing Gray to Barry -- often not using Barry's name but using themes that are familiar to everyone. I have a hard time believing that Fenty isn't endorsing this approach. But I suppose it's true, that his followers could collectively be latching on to a strategy that he disapproves of. If he does disapprove of it, he should say so.

That would be the smart thing to do -- because, frankly, I think Fenty followers like this are going to win the election for Gray.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His support of Gray alone is nearly enough to eliminate Gray from consideration as a candidate.

As your quote noted, Barry hasn't endorsed any candidate. In 2006, he endorsed Fenty. According to DC Watch, prominent Barry supporters were part of Team Green at the Ward 4 forum. I suspect Barry stuck on a Gray sticker to tweak Fenty and as a negotiating tactic. Both candidates probably want Barry's support and Barry was telling Fenty that whatever he has offered so far is not enough.

It will be interesting to see what Barry does, especially given that Gray engineered his removal from his committee chair, a humiliating moment for Barry, to be sure. Hard to think that Barry would forgive that but then again he is such an opportunist if he sees that support is going to Gray I think he might just jump on that bandwagon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, please. you and I both know that Fenty is not the one "having his supporters tell everyone that Gray is the new Barry and he wants to abolish the middle class."

I demand you provide evidence of Fenty directing his supporters to do so! It's dispicable! Ok, I'm willing to give you a pass and chalk it up to hyperbole.

Meanwhile, I'm neither a Fenty or Gray supporter. I'm primarily a Gabe Klein supporter. Secondarily a supporter of school reform. If Gray were to make a commitment to keeping Klein aboard, and name a specific replacement for Rhee, I'd be more than willing to support him.

My guess is that he won't, because his campaign succeeds or fails on successfully playing to the resentments of disparate groups. Naming names would only thwart this strategy, alienate his coalition, and bring the whole thing crashing down.

At the end of the day, I'll probably vote Fenty because he's actually appointed people--people I think have done a fine job for the most part. And Gray is a leap of blind faith.

But they seem to spend a lot of time telling people this. In fact, there are one or more posters on DCUM who are constantly comparing Gray to Barry -- often not using Barry's name but using themes that are familiar to everyone. I have a hard time believing that Fenty isn't endorsing this approach. But I suppose it's true, that his followers could collectively be latching on to a strategy that he disapproves of. If he does disapprove of it, he should say so.

That would be the smart thing to do -- because, frankly, I think Fenty followers like this are going to win the election for Gray.

Interesting. I guess it depends what you read. It's been the generally unhinged diatribes I occasionally see on the Washington Post comments section and elsewhere that've pushed me towards Fenty. And while we're calling on the candidates to repudiate ("refudiate"?) their supporter's positions, perhaps Gray could let his supporters know he's not the anti-gentrification candidate. Because I would argue it's not Fenty linking Gray with Barry, but rather the fact that Gray is running a campaign focusing on how Fenty is giving away the city to "newcomers" and "developers".

I understand it's critical to the success of his campaign, and as I've said before, I don't think Gray even necessarily plans to follow through, but it's clearly one of the campaign's central themes.

In any case, rhetoric aside, I think it'll be a matter of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss." I'm more than happy to be pleasantly surprised by a responsible and incorruptible Gray administration if it comes about. Bonus points if he keeps Gabe Klein, who recently said his focus was on residents over commuters. Further bonus points if he appoints someone to head the schools who is capable of doing more than just empaneling commissions, and generating white papers.

So long as Wells gets reelected--and Vincent Orange isn't allowed anywhere near any kind of political power--I'm fine with whatever.

[Anonymous]

Let's all be honest with ourselves and realize that this election has a lot to do with race and the change face of the city. DC is becoming less and less a chocolate city, a guy with a white mother like Fenty is seen as championing this change. Never mind the fact that anyone of any race can move in to whatever neighborhood they so desire. But racial politics do not work like that. Even the assumption that Fenty will handily win wards 2 and 3 and that Gray will carry 5,7,8 and now that ward 6 (a ward that really symbolizes this transformation) is the battle ground is just one big code for racial politics. No one has said it, but read this by Fenty's people:

The Examiner's Freeman Klopott has this: "A high-ranking Fenty campaign member, who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak freely, noted that most of Wednesday night's voters were black. 'There are other demographics in Ward 4 that will show up on primary day,' the Fenty campaigner said." Nice code talk. LL did not know that word demographics meant: rich white people who live on the other side of the park. The Post's Mike DeBonis has another anonymous quote: 'Gray has a rabid corps of volunteers that wants to kill us just to watch us die,' says one Fenty campaign staffer."
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Gray-campaign-gathers-steam-with-straw-poll-victories-1007685-100071879.html#ixzz0vpTWzqXD

The people that are being "left behind" now will not be helped by Gray's adminstration because they are the ones with no education, no employable skills, criminal records etc. Upper income residents of the city no matter what racial background will continue to prosper as billions of dollars continues to pour in to the city.