Navigating Bad Professors -- Advice for Kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. Always believe Rate My Professor. Always!

This is the worst advice ever. The only students who bother to fill out forms in RMP are those who either love or hate the class. I can see teaching evaluations of a large # of faculty (administered in class and completed by well over half of the students in each class) and so know what students generally think of them. I've occassionally logged into RMP out of curiosity, and what I see there really doesn't match the evaluations that all students complete really at all. Student who have a bone to pick are very prominent. On the other hand, I know at least one prof who clearly logged in multiple times and gave himself glowing reviews.

Some universities make the official evaluations public and you should absolutely read those. But don't bother to log into RMP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor and had a professor like this in grad school. I went to my chair when I was the student, and he said he could do nothing. If the professor is tenured (likely so for your D), it would be a long process, and it would be hard to prove retaliation because it wouldn't take much to fail your D at this point.

In my case, my professor actively targeted me. I think I reminded him of his wife who had recently divorced him. Once I realized the criticism wasn't entirely rational, I was in a better frame of mind to cope and do whatever it took to survive. I started playing the part of convert and devotee to this professor asking to rewrite previous work and going far beyond the scope of assignments. I would also ask for guidance, not just on assignments, but on the application of theories or other topics that might appeal to the ego. There is a difference in a student who only asks about assignments and one who asks about ideas. I'll bet this professor has lots of sycophants but few devotees. Sell her on your commitment to the work, even if it is a snowjob. Commit. Survive.
Also, live long and prosper. Good luck!

Thank you, PP. That is disappointing to hear regarding the tenure. That is what the department head had told my daughter, but I didn't think that could be true. I appreciate your advice.

I am a professor and I was going to say something similar. We have all had these kinds of experience, trust me, and you have to learn to handle them. I was going to specifically suggest that your daughter seriously consult with the professor, do a rough draft, come in to discuss it. When I have been in these situations, I ended up learning a lot. Not saying I loved the professor for it, but in addition to the content I learned that you have to be flexible with every teacher/prof/boss and, fair or unfair, learn to do work a certain way. This is a huge life lesson.

[Anonymous]

Tell her to spend less time on TikTok and more time on schoolwork.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh please. She’s a college senior asking for mommy’s help with this? I don’t buy it for a minute.

Go away. Your response isn't needed.

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry OP. I also have a kid who just needs to pass Senior capstone with a C- or higher to graduate in May and it’s a nail biter. Partly the professors, but, to be fair, also partly my kid having ADHD and being a poor judge of how long assignments will take. SMH

Agree with PPs your kid is almost certainly stuck with this professor and this class and can’t go round it at this point. So, they have to suck it up and go through. But, it’s getting close to midterms at most schools, so it’s a good time to touch base with the professor and get things nailed down in writing without seeming adversarial.

I’m a lawyer, so I always believe in getting it in writing. So, in addition to office hours, maybe an email along these lines:

Dear Professor X: I want to touch base with you during midterms about my progress in your class this semester. I am really enjoying the subject matter and have learned so much. But, I am also finding your class to be challenging (which I know if the goal of a senior thesis class). So, I wanted to take this opportunity to confirm I am making satisfactory progress towards passing your class so I can graduate in May.

I believe I have completed X, Y and Z assignments within the deadlines and have passed X and Y. I know you are still grading S. And, after reviewing the syllabus, I know that I need to do A, B and C to satisfactorily complete this class. Is this correct?

Because this class has definitely been challenging me, I also wanted to see if there are any areas where you believe my work needs improvement. I appreciate any suggestions/advice you are able to provide in areas where you believe I could use improvement.

Thank you for offering such an interesting class and for taking the time to touch base with me on my progress— your student.

If they don’t hear back, wait 10 days to two weeks and send a followup email. It’s nice if they get constructive device. But the goal should be to get confirmation that they are on track to pass. And, if they aren’t, to nil down why that is.


Also realize— yes a tenured professor has a lot of latitude and probably does have the ability flunk your kid— Orr the entire class. And if it’s just your kid, the college is unlikely to care much or have much sympathy. But if this is a widespread problem and an issue every year, it likely is being monitored behind the scenes.

The college might not care if one kid in the major fails ‘‘tis class and doesn’t graduate on time. But, it does care about its 4 and 6 year graduation rates— if only because they must be reported to USNWR and the DOE / common data set. If more than 1 or 2 students who have decent academic track records routinely can’t graduate because they fail this one class 2nd semester senior year, the college will care. If only because it hurts their numbers. And if kids stop declaring majors in this area because of the reputation of kids not being able to graduate on time due to senior capstone/thesis, the department will care, because fewer majors means professors and classes will be cut.

So, if this is truly a majority of the class issue, and not a your kid issue, there is a strong likelihood that your kid is being hazed and will ultimately get a passing grade. And the professor is just getting their jollies jerking kids around. Because if, say, half of the professor’s class become ineligible to graduate based solely on that class, year over year, it isnt just an issue for the kids (and not the professor, because tenure). It become a department issue (they can’t get kids though the major on the timeline they should) and a college issue (fewer kids graduate on time, which is reported in the data to DOE and rankings entities.

So, if your kid really is in the same crappy position as most of the class, it may be stressful, but realistically, the will probably squeak through in the end. Not how your kid wants to spend their last semester. But, strength in numbers. That said, have them try— politely— to get their midterm status nailed down in writing.

And next time, believe it when multiple kids are saying a professor is unreasonable or unfair. Nd try to work around that class.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP. I also have a kid who just needs to pass Senior capstone with a C- or higher to graduate in May and it’s a nail biter. Partly the professors, but, to be fair, also partly my kid having ADHD and being a poor judge of how long assignments will take. SMH

Agree with PPs your kid is almost certainly stuck with this professor and this class and can’t go round it at this point. So, they have to suck it up and go through. But, it’s getting close to midterms at most schools, so it’s a good time to touch base with the professor and get things nailed down in writing without seeming adversarial.

I’m a lawyer, so I always believe in getting it in writing. So, in addition to office hours, maybe an email along these lines:

Dear Professor X: I want to touch base with you during midterms about my progress in your class this semester. I am really enjoying the subject matter and have learned so much. But, I am also finding your class to be challenging (which I know if the goal of a senior thesis class). So, I wanted to take this opportunity to confirm I am making satisfactory progress towards passing your class so I can graduate in May.

I believe I have completed X, Y and Z assignments within the deadlines and have passed X and Y. I know you are still grading S. And, after reviewing the syllabus, I know that I need to do A, B and C to satisfactorily complete this class. Is this correct?

Because this class has definitely been challenging me, I also wanted to see if there are any areas where you believe my work needs improvement. I appreciate any suggestions/advice you are able to provide in areas where you believe I could use improvement.

Thank you for offering such an interesting class and for taking the time to touch base with me on my progress— your student.

If they don’t hear back, wait 10 days to two weeks and send a followup email. It’s nice if they get constructive device. But the goal should be to get confirmation that they are on track to pass. And, if they aren’t, to nil down why that is.


Also realize— yes a tenured professor has a lot of latitude and probably does have the ability flunk your kid— Orr the entire class. And if it’s just your kid, the college is unlikely to care much or have much sympathy. But if this is a widespread problem and an issue every year, it likely is being monitored behind the scenes.

The college might not care if one kid in the major fails ‘‘tis class and doesn’t graduate on time. But, it does care about its 4 and 6 year graduation rates— if only because they must be reported to USNWR and the DOE / common data set. If more than 1 or 2 students who have decent academic track records routinely can’t graduate because they fail this one class 2nd semester senior year, the college will care. If only because it hurts their numbers. And if kids stop declaring majors in this area because of the reputation of kids not being able to graduate on time due to senior capstone/thesis, the department will care, because fewer majors means professors and classes will be cut.

So, if this is truly a majority of the class issue, and not a your kid issue, there is a strong likelihood that your kid is being hazed and will ultimately get a passing grade. And the professor is just getting their jollies jerking kids around. Because if, say, half of the professor’s class become ineligible to graduate based solely on that class, year over year, it isnt just an issue for the kids (and not the professor, because tenure). It become a department issue (they can’t get kids though the major on the timeline they should) and a college issue (fewer kids graduate on time, which is reported in the data to DOE and rankings entities.

So, if your kid really is in the same crappy position as most of the class, it may be stressful, but realistically, the will probably squeak through in the end. Not how your kid wants to spend their last semester. But, strength in numbers. That said, have them try— politely— to get their midterm status nailed down in writing.

And next time, believe it when multiple kids are saying a professor is unreasonable or unfair. Nd try to work around that class.

Good luck!

I know this was well meaning, but it tacitly questions the prof and wouldn't make rhe student look competent. It's also way too long. The student should know what they submitted, where they stand on that and what is left. Do not waste professor 's time asking what you should already know. Yes, keep the part about finding it challenging. Ask for advice on how yo better understand graded work and whether you can revise. Ask for guidance preparing for work yo come. Ask about her research (a good meaty question, not a cheap survey that smells of kissing up).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Always believe Rate My Professor. Always!

This is the worst advice ever. The only students who bother to fill out forms in RMP are those who either love or hate the class. I can see teaching evaluations of a large # of faculty (administered in class and completed by well over half of the students in each class) and so know what students generally think of them. I've occassionally logged into RMP out of curiosity, and what I see there really doesn't match the evaluations that all students complete really at all. Student who have a bone to pick are very prominent. On the other hand, I know at least one prof who clearly logged in multiple times and gave himself glowing reviews.

Some universities make the official evaluations public and you should absolutely read those. But don't bother to log into RMP.

DP. Agreed. It's often the ones who had an issue, sometimes of their own doing-- didn't pull their weight or got caught plagiarizing. At some schools, students are more pro-active in general, and they may be more accurate there, but, in general, it's the ones who feel strongly about making a statement, which are usually the disgruntled and occasionally the fans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor and had a professor like this in grad school. I went to my chair when I was the student, and he said he could do nothing. If the professor is tenured (likely so for your D), it would be a long process, and it would be hard to prove retaliation because it wouldn't take much to fail your D at this point.

In my case, my professor actively targeted me. I think I reminded him of his wife who had recently divorced him. Once I realized the criticism wasn't entirely rational, I was in a better frame of mind to cope and do whatever it took to survive. I started playing the part of convert and devotee to this professor asking to rewrite previous work and going far beyond the scope of assignments. I would also ask for guidance, not just on assignments, but on the application of theories or other topics that might appeal to the ego. There is a difference in a student who only asks about assignments and one who asks about ideas. I'll bet this professor has lots of sycophants but few devotees. Sell her on your commitment to the work, even if it is a snowjob. Commit. Survive.
Also, live long and prosper. Good luck!

This is good advice.

OP - I think you know the answer is that your daughter just has to trudge through it to the end. Find ways to manage personal feelings - don't let teacher get to you (make you feel bad) and don't allow negative energy towards the teacher take over. Find ways to play the game (as PP shows) in a way that might help .

In our grad program there was a professor who was notoriously difficult as thesis advisor and the people who wanted that specialty had no other option. It usually ended in two ways: (1) crazy smart people dropped out and didn't finish their dissertation in our department...often ended up finishing elsewhere while employed or (2) saavy people finally realized they (a) just had to either "break down and say I'll do whatever you want" just tell me what I need to do to finish or (b) had to act like the prof was god and praise everything he said and implement everything "his way". I was so glad that wasn't my specialty in our department.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree, I had a similar situation. You have to figure out how to appease this person sufficiently. With mine, they held an annual memorial service (at the Jesuit school) for her mother & noted who attended.
In a weird way, it can be a valuable educational experience. Throughout your career, you have to figure out how to connect with others, bosses, people in positions of power - it’s not a bad lesson. Yes, a little weird & unfair, but it is a fair representation of life.

This

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, I had a similar situation. You have to figure out how to appease this person sufficiently. With mine, they held an annual memorial service (at the Jesuit school) for her mother & noted who attended.
In a weird way, it can be a valuable educational experience. Throughout your career, you have to figure out how to connect with others, bosses, people in positions of power - it’s not a bad lesson. Yes, a little weird & unfair, but it is a fair representation of life.

This

Agree 100 percent - the advice is simple - make It Work - this is how real life is sometimes. Complaining and scheming will get you nowhere.

[Anonymous]

It happens. That’s why I think no one can get 4.0 without very strategic and calculated scheduling in high school and college. And that’s not the point of education.

[Anonymous]

Instead of fighting with the professor, they need to do their best to figure out what the professor wants and give it to them. The goal is to get through the class, not to try to change a professor who can't be changed--its much like having a bad boss. You can't usually change the boss, you just figure out how to deal with them until you leave.

Once she was finished the class, she should be sure to do the class rating and write quite a review of the professor. Even if the professor has tenure, many state universities have post tenure review or at least pay raises may be based on student evaluations.

[Anonymous]

Its called learning to manage upwards. You need to be a good Beta to do it though, no Alphas ever made this work.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I just wanted to say how much I appreciate all of you responding with your own experiences and suggestions on how to navigate similar situations. I'm going to share these ideas with my daughter for her to digest and move forward with. Thank you, again.