Navigating Bad Professors -- Advice for Kid

[Anonymous]

Something does not sound right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor and had a professor like this in grad school. I went to my chair when I was the student, and he said he could do nothing. If the professor is tenured (likely so for your D), it would be a long process, and it would be hard to prove retaliation because it wouldn't take much to fail your D at this point.

In my case, my professor actively targeted me. I think I reminded him of his wife who had recently divorced him. Once I realized the criticism wasn't entirely rational, I was in a better frame of mind to cope and do whatever it took to survive. I started playing the part of convert and devotee to this professor asking to rewrite previous work and going far beyond the scope of assignments. I would also ask for guidance, not just on assignments, but on the application of theories or other topics that might appeal to the ego. There is a difference in a student who only asks about assignments and one who asks about ideas. I'll bet this professor has lots of sycophants but few devotees. Sell her on your commitment to the work, even if it is a snowjob. Commit. Survive.
Also, live long and prosper. Good luck!

Thank you, PP. That is disappointing to hear regarding the tenure. That is what the department head had told my daughter, but I didn't think that could be true. I appreciate your advice.

Other advice already given here is solid. Another form of damage control is to figure out what happens if she fails. Can she retake a different version of the class from afar, writing a new thesis? Can she just not go for honors and make up with another 3 credit class? Can she continue to refine the unsatisfactory work until it passes (if a thesis is required)? Have her discuss with the kids from previous years first.

I agree with those who say this is a situation like a bad job/bad boss. It's horrible but somehow she will get through it. You should coach her but let her make contact with all the university employees herself.

[Anonymous]

You aren't going to "get rid" of a tenured professor. About the most you can do is have them reassigned for teaching duties in future years. With that said - troublesome professors are typically a known quantity - and damage control is what most chairs/deans/presidents will want to accomplish. Additionally, perhaps being "tough" gets results. Regardless of whether your student likes it or not. Something to consider is has your student reviewed the University's Arbitrary and capricious grading policy? Have they reviewed the syllabus? Your student could have a leg to stand on if these are not in alignment but don't expect it to help them now - it would be for future classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor and had a professor like this in grad school. I went to my chair when I was the student, and he said he could do nothing. If the professor is tenured (likely so for your D), it would be a long process, and it would be hard to prove retaliation because it wouldn't take much to fail your D at this point.

In my case, my professor actively targeted me. I think I reminded him of his wife who had recently divorced him. Once I realized the criticism wasn't entirely rational, I was in a better frame of mind to cope and do whatever it took to survive. I started playing the part of convert and devotee to this professor asking to rewrite previous work and going far beyond the scope of assignments. I would also ask for guidance, not just on assignments, but on the application of theories or other topics that might appeal to the ego. There is a difference in a student who only asks about assignments and one who asks about ideas. I'll bet this professor has lots of sycophants but few devotees. Sell her on your commitment to the work, even if it is a snowjob. Commit. Survive.
Also, live long and prosper. Good luck!

Thank you, PP. That is disappointing to hear regarding the tenure. That is what the department head had told my daughter, but I didn't think that could be true. I appreciate your advice.

Other advice already given here is solid. Another form of damage control is to figure out what happens if she fails. Can she retake a different version of the class from afar, writing a new thesis? Can she just not go for honors and make up with another 3 credit class? Can she continue to refine the unsatisfactory work until it passes (if a thesis is required)? Have her discuss with the kids from previous years first.

I agree with those who say this is a situation like a bad job/bad boss. It's horrible but somehow she will get through it. You should coach her but let her make contact with all the university employees herself.

+1. Work really hard but also figure out a plan B. If nothing else, it will give peace of mind to know what the plan is after failing. Or if failing is truly unacceptable, what else can be dropped/failed now to give more time to this class?

I also wonder if this professor really fails students often. Lots of profs are jerks who lord it over students but don't follow through with the F. If many students are not able to graduate, you'd think the administration would step in, tenure or no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor and had a professor like this in grad school. I went to my chair when I was the student, and he said he could do nothing. If the professor is tenured (likely so for your D), it would be a long process, and it would be hard to prove retaliation because it wouldn't take much to fail your D at this point.

In my case, my professor actively targeted me. I think I reminded him of his wife who had recently divorced him. Once I realized the criticism wasn't entirely rational, I was in a better frame of mind to cope and do whatever it took to survive. I started playing the part of convert and devotee to this professor asking to rewrite previous work and going far beyond the scope of assignments. I would also ask for guidance, not just on assignments, but on the application of theories or other topics that might appeal to the ego. There is a difference in a student who only asks about assignments and one who asks about ideas. I'll bet this professor has lots of sycophants but few devotees. Sell her on your commitment to the work, even if it is a snowjob. Commit. Survive.
Also, live long and prosper. Good luck!

Thank you, PP. That is disappointing to hear regarding the tenure. That is what the department head had told my daughter, but I didn't think that could be true. I appreciate your advice.

You're welcome. It may feel disappointing, but it is good to figure out asap in order to develop an effective approach. Once I knew this guy had done this to other students and any recourse was unlikely, it enabled me to shift my focus/energy. I made it all about tappung his expertise and he took the bait (his initials were "ME" so maybe that was a sign)! In the end, he complimented me on my work, and I went from a C (failing for grads) to an A. He thought he had done a phenomenal job teaching me, and, I guess, in a way he had. It was an acting class!!! Acting! Thank you!

Support your kid and help her reconcile that expecting any justice or course correction is likely wasted energy. Help her wow this person and sincerely kowtow. Have her take assignments that earned poor grades to the prof to ask how she can improve, not question any grading. Ask about prof's research as another PP suggested. She can get through this. It's its own kind of education.

I believe we attended the same school!

I took a class in the same department with a professor “CS,” who was atrocious. I should have done some of what was recommended here.

[Anonymous]

All of this seems like a really good practical experience for what life will have in store for your student. She will have bad bosses, difficult co-workers, failures, and tough work assignments. Finding ways to navigate and be successful is something she will have to work out for the rest of her life, and it starts here in this class.

[Anonymous]

Agree with finding their weakness/soft spot and exploiting it. A quick google of the professor, and you can figure out quickly where their passions are. Stroke their ego, sadly is the best way to survive.

[Anonymous]

1. Always believe Rate My Professor. Always!

2. Why isn’t she utilizing early to mid April deadlines for pass/fail or withdrawal? It’s BS that any specific class can’t be dropped. If it’s a department requirement for graduation and enough students rally together, they may approve some sort of alternative.

3. Create a file of all graded work and log professor notes/feedback, office hours, emails.

4. Negotiate retaking or substituting the class externally or internally over the summer. She might still be able to walk for grad ceremony, but will receive diploma when completed.

5. Be prepared to appeal the grade in writing to the Dean of department.

6. If professor has a history of tenure/student abuse, expose it.

7. What is her grade at this point? C? D? Office hours every week for guidance on her progress.

8. Ask prof straight up what her anticipated final grade will be and what she can do in the next two months.

9. Is it a capstone thesis? Does the professor have a TA or Graduate teaching assistant?

[Anonymous]

It is virtually certain that in nearly any student/ professor situation, the college will back the professor. There are exceptions but very few, and for that the student’s case has to be beyond dispute, which almost never happens.

Student needs to do whatever academic things the professor asks for or even suggests, and do so in a subservient way.

So, really DC should understand there is no way out.

[Anonymous]

OP, what is the severity of the grading? I can understand your concern if your daughter is getting C's for solid, effortful work which actually meets the criteria the professor outlined, but increasingly I am seeing students become indignant at getting B's or even A-'s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh please. She’s a college senior asking for mommy’s help with this? I don’t buy it for a minute.

NP. You should kindly F off.

[Anonymous]

If the professor fails her, she takes it again with a different professor. It will not derail her life. It will seem like a huge, insurmountable thing when it's happening, but she will move forward and manage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor and had a professor like this in grad school. I went to my chair when I was the student, and he said he could do nothing. If the professor is tenured (likely so for your D), it would be a long process, and it would be hard to prove retaliation because it wouldn't take much to fail your D at this point.

In my case, my professor actively targeted me. I think I reminded him of his wife who had recently divorced him. Once I realized the criticism wasn't entirely rational, I was in a better frame of mind to cope and do whatever it took to survive. I started playing the part of convert and devotee to this professor asking to rewrite previous work and going far beyond the scope of assignments. I would also ask for guidance, not just on assignments, but on the application of theories or other topics that might appeal to the ego. There is a difference in a student who only asks about assignments and one who asks about ideas. I'll bet this professor has lots of sycophants but few devotees. Sell her on your commitment to the work, even if it is a snowjob. Commit. Survive.
Also, live long and prosper. Good luck!

Thank you, PP. That is disappointing to hear regarding the tenure. That is what the department head had told my daughter, but I didn't think that could be true. I appreciate your advice.

DP: It's a lot like surviving a bad boss--you can complain above your bad boss, but it usually isn't going to help you much unless they do something that violates HR. The plus side of this is learning how to negotiate around a problematic person who has authority over you. An additional plus compared to a bad boss is that there really isn't something like "failing upward" among professors like there is in the private sector--so as arbitrary as the professor is about grading/assignments, they probably have something meaningful to offer intellectually if they have tenure since it's pretty arduous to get and professors in the field/discipline have to support the granting of tenure.
In my experience, professors sometimes lose touch with how long something takes for students--in grad school I had professors who would often say 'this should take you about an hour' because it would take them with their level of expertise about an hour but the rest of us worked on it for 40 hours with 1/4 as good results.

So I agree with the above to encourage DD to exploit her interest in the theme to go to office hours and engage and ask questions and get feedback etc. that will a) if the issue is ego-driven support the ego or b) if the issue is that they are out of touch with how long something takes for an undergrad (vs a grad student or themselves as a professor) in their feedback they can often give you a structure that will eliminate a lot of missteps or set an architecture for your thinking that gets you further along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor and had a professor like this in grad school. I went to my chair when I was the student, and he said he could do nothing. If the professor is tenured (likely so for your D), it would be a long process, and it would be hard to prove retaliation because it wouldn't take much to fail your D at this point.

In my case, my professor actively targeted me. I think I reminded him of his wife who had recently divorced him. Once I realized the criticism wasn't entirely rational, I was in a better frame of mind to cope and do whatever it took to survive. I started playing the part of convert and devotee to this professor asking to rewrite previous work and going far beyond the scope of assignments. I would also ask for guidance, not just on assignments, but on the application of theories or other topics that might appeal to the ego. There is a difference in a student who only asks about assignments and one who asks about ideas. I'll bet this professor has lots of sycophants but few devotees. Sell her on your commitment to the work, even if it is a snowjob. Commit. Survive.
Also, live long and prosper. Good luck!

This is excellent advice. My DS who is still in HS has had to do this with a particularly tricky, inconsistent, temperamental Physics teacher (the only one in the school) and has turned it around completely as a result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, you should drop the helicopter. Second, consider that Larla is not completely blameless. The grades are not allowed to be arbitrary.

Yes, we all know that. The issue, if you care to think and learn, is that there isn't a way to prove that a grade is arbitrary when it's assigned to something like a paper or project. So much of grading is the professor's subjective response to how well the student has fulfilled their expectations, which are also subjective.

Also, a college student reaching out to a parent is showing problem solving skills. The parent has life experience and knowledge that may be helpful, and sharing that is not being a helicopter.

You seem very concrete. Open your mind a little.