Reputation and prestige with public vs. private universities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, congrats to OP for being able to type so many words while in a straightjacket.

Second, I know there is a perception that the in-state students at Michigan & UNC are far inferior to OOS, but don’t get carried away with the contrast. I lived in Michigan for decades & I can assure you that only the top students from most high schools are applying to U of M. If you’re not a real standout, you know your place is at Michigan State or a directional. I’m not saying there isn’t a slight difference in quality between in-state & OOS, but it’s not like the in-staters are drooling idiots like some people claim.

I'm the 10:52 poster and appreciate the detail here. I just don't get why some posters - more than OP - come on here and basically charge that the in-state students are a weak, soft, and feral bunch. Just because the in-staters don't hail from the MoCo W high schools, Scarsdale, or Glen Ridge, doesn't mean they are charity admits.

[Anonymous]

UVA accepted 4 kids from our private class of 250. All had 4.0uw(or close to it), highest standardized scores (35 ACT) and very well-rounded. They are picking off the best of the best from the DMV. Some publics have 600 kids per class in UMC educated areas and the few accepted from those classes are cream of the crop.

I have seen it’s easier to get into U Mich at a lot of big public NoVA HS for slightly less tier than it is to get into UVA. Everyone wants the in-state tuition. So many more kids apply from VA to UVA. My kid and his friends did not even apply to U Mich, but they all applied to UVA, WM, VT and a bunch of Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Northern VA, Richmond, TidewaterVA Neach area have some of the most educated and wealthy parents in the US. UVA is taking the very top kids from these schools. These kids are Ivy-material. It’s also half the size of Michigan which means it’s even harder to get a spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UVA accepted 4 kids from our private class of 250. All had 4.0uw(or close to it), highest standardized scores (35 ACT) and very well-rounded. They are picking off the best of the best from the DMV. Some publics have 600 kids per class in UMC educated areas and the few accepted from those classes are cream of the crop.

I have seen it’s easier to get into U Mich at a lot of big public NoVA HS for slightly less tier than it is to get into UVA. Everyone wants the in-state tuition. So many more kids apply from VA to UVA. My kid and his friends did not even apply to U Mich, but they all applied to UVA, WM, VT and a bunch of Ivies.

Sure, but this is now. Currently it is super competitive. The question is what will it look like in the future when there aren't enough kids applying with 4.0 UW but UVA still needs 2/3 Virginians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA accepted 4 kids from our private class of 250. All had 4.0uw(or close to it), highest standardized scores (35 ACT) and very well-rounded. They are picking off the best of the best from the DMV. Some publics have 600 kids per class in UMC educated areas and the few accepted from those classes are cream of the crop.

I have seen it’s easier to get into U Mich at a lot of big public NoVA HS for slightly less tier than it is to get into UVA. Everyone wants the in-state tuition. So many more kids apply from VA to UVA. My kid and his friends did not even apply to U Mich, but they all applied to UVA, WM, VT and a bunch of Ivies.

Sure, but this is now. Currently it is super competitive. The question is what will it look like in the future when there aren't enough kids applying with 4.0 UW but UVA still needs 2/3 Virginians.

The same top kids will still be there. What about Michigan with a not as intelligent state? Not the highest education levels and salaries like VA? And with increasingly high OOS tuition, they are pulling even more in-stare when donut home families can’t keep up with the rising cost of tuition.

Everything points to the opposite of your assumption: more people are and will choose in-state because privates are approaching $100k/year for anyone over $150k HHI.

State universities are getting more and more popular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prestige and rankings are important criteria for many. It influences the school's perception, causing a self-fulfilling prophecy of more people applying, lowering admissions, attracting potentially better candidates, and maybe climbing in rankings even more.

UVA must admit 2/3 Virginians by state law. Michigan has about 50% OOS. UNC can't have more more than 18% OOS.

Looking into the crystal ball with the approaching population cliff and as we have fewer kids, can the obligation of public schools to take a large percentage of in-state students dilute the student body, creating another self-fulfilling prophecy, but on the other side causing public schools to fall in rankings compared to privates who can pick who they want?

If we look at UNC, the acceptance rate was 8.2% for OOS and 43% for in-state. The OOS student would be at the very top of the class and work much harder to get in, whereas the in-state student could be weaker and yet have a much higher and easier chance to get accepted. Why go to a public school then as OOS and not a private? Is having 2/3 Virginians sustainable to keep UVA in the top 25 in the future? UVA is incredibly competitive now, even for in-state. As the college age population decreases, will UVA have to admit weaker candidates to meet the 2/3 in-state mandate?

UVA is barely holding on to the T25 and is currently tied with CMU. I feel like private schools might overtake the top 30 with publics falling lower because of their ability to pick-and-choose.

What do you think?

Why are folks so certain that the in-state students are weaker?

lower SAT scores and also common sense when they are forced to a limited pool of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA accepted 4 kids from our private class of 250. All had 4.0uw(or close to it), highest standardized scores (35 ACT) and very well-rounded. They are picking off the best of the best from the DMV. Some publics have 600 kids per class in UMC educated areas and the few accepted from those classes are cream of the crop.

I have seen it’s easier to get into U Mich at a lot of big public NoVA HS for slightly less tier than it is to get into UVA. Everyone wants the in-state tuition. So many more kids apply from VA to UVA. My kid and his friends did not even apply to U Mich, but they all applied to UVA, WM, VT and a bunch of Ivies.

Sure, but this is now. Currently it is super competitive. The question is what will it look like in the future when there aren't enough kids applying with 4.0 UW but UVA still needs 2/3 Virginians.

You’re drumming on and on about a single factor, but you’re missing the bigger picture entirely. First of all most studies indicate that while there will be enrollment decline, the Top 50 elite schools will actually have increased demand, that includes UVA UNC and Mich. Further you are not considering the effects of internal migration in the US. The hundreds of thousands that have moved to Florida and Texas in the last decade will propel further demand of the in state flagships. Massive immigration is also going to be a factor in the overall equation. The Top instate flagships have endowments so large they can weather any ten year downturn in enrollment but no they are going to have a problem filling their classes. It’s the tuition dependent schools with small endowments that are going to feel the impact of the enrollment cliff. Indeed We’ve already seen many small schools close and there are probably others coming soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys are so lame on this board. So rankings obsessed. It is really sad. Also, Northeastern will never ever be prestigious.

pres·tige
noun
widespread respect and admiration felt for someone or something on the basis of a perception of their achievements or quality.

According to the definition, Northeastern is already prestigious.

If you have to spend so much time and effort to post on an unanimous forum to convince a bunch of strangers that Northeastern is prestigious, your mere action showcases that the opposite is the truth.

Do you see anybody posting on here trying to convince all of us that Harvard and Yale are prestigious?!!? Exactly. There’s no need for that because they simply are, but Northeastern is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, congrats to OP for being able to type so many words while in a straightjacket.

Second, I know there is a perception that the in-state students at Michigan & UNC are far inferior to OOS, but don’t get carried away with the contrast. I lived in Michigan for decades & I can assure you that only the top students from most high schools are applying to U of M. If you’re not a real standout, you know your place is at Michigan State or a directional. I’m not saying there isn’t a slight difference in quality between in-state & OOS, but it’s not like the in-staters are drooling idiots like some people claim.

I'm the 10:52 poster and appreciate the detail here. I just don't get why some posters - more than OP - come on here and basically charge that the in-state students are a weak, soft, and feral bunch. Just because the in-staters don't hail from the MoCo W high schools, Scarsdale, or Glen Ridge, doesn't mean they are charity admits. [/quote

+100 agree. the claim that in state students are not of the same caliber as OOS or a tip top private is lunacy. Also the assertion that the enrollment cliff is equivalent to a zero birth rate in Michigan and UVA so “how can they fill the class in the next two years?!” is just utterly moronic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prestige and rankings are important criteria for many. It influences the school's perception, causing a self-fulfilling prophecy of more people applying, lowering admissions, attracting potentially better candidates, and maybe climbing in rankings even more.

UVA must admit 2/3 Virginians by state law. Michigan has about 50% OOS. UNC can't have more more than 18% OOS.

Looking into the crystal ball with the approaching population cliff and as we have fewer kids, can the obligation of public schools to take a large percentage of in-state students dilute the student body, creating another self-fulfilling prophecy, but on the other side causing public schools to fall in rankings compared to privates who can pick who they want?

If we look at UNC, the acceptance rate was 8.2% for OOS and 43% for in-state. The OOS student would be at the very top of the class and work much harder to get in, whereas the in-state student could be weaker and yet have a much higher and easier chance to get accepted. Why go to a public school then as OOS and not a private? Is having 2/3 Virginians sustainable to keep UVA in the top 25 in the future? UVA is incredibly competitive now, even for in-state. As the college age population decreases, will UVA have to admit weaker candidates to meet the 2/3 in-state mandate?

UVA is barely holding on to the T25 and is currently tied with CMU. I feel like private schools might overtake the top 30 with publics falling lower because of their ability to pick-and-choose.

What do you think?

I think you should watch the Super Bowl, rather than having people try to parse through your writing to extract the points you are trying to make.

It’s the NEU booster trolling for more validation that their school aka ‘a private’ is going to rise above UVA UNC and Mich ‘the falling publics’. Am I right OP?

Your obsession with NEU is crazy.
Seek help.

DP. No. I think it's the NEU booster as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys are so lame on this board. So rankings obsessed. It is really sad. Also, Northeastern will never ever be prestigious.

pres·tige
noun
widespread respect and admiration felt for someone or something on the basis of a perception of their achievements or quality.

According to the definition, Northeastern is already prestigious.

If you have to spend so much time and effort to post on an unanimous forum to convince a bunch of strangers that Northeastern is prestigious, your mere action showcases that the opposite is the truth.

Do you see anybody posting on here trying to convince all of us that Harvard and Yale are prestigious?!!? Exactly. There’s no need for that because they simply are, but Northeastern is not.

Why are you so obsessed with Northeastern and trying to convince all of us that it's not a great school????
Never seen anyone doing that to a noname podung school. So weird.

[Anonymous]

Should state flagship universities expand enrollment if more and more qualified and motivated in-state students are struggling to gain admission into their state institutions? Isn’t the mandate of such schools to educate their citizens? If these universities provide such opportunities to state residents, isn’t that more valuable, honorable, and measurable than “prestige?”
I do not think that expanding enrollment will result in lower quality instruction or outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Should state flagship universities expand enrollment if more and more qualified and motivated in-state students are struggling to gain admission into their state institutions? Isn’t the mandate of such schools to educate their citizens? If these universities provide such opportunities to state residents, isn’t that more valuable, honorable, and measurable than “prestige?”
I do not think that expanding enrollment will result in lower quality instruction or outcomes.

UVA has big endowment. It should expand.

[Anonymous]

Have there been any grass roots or special interest efforts to lobby for an expansion of enrollment at UVA or UMD given the clamor from instate families for more slots?

[Anonymous]

UVA is a private wannabe school