ISO examples of someone *really* selling out/abandoning morals

[Anonymous]

She isn’t getting bad grades because she’s a Marxist. She’s getting bad grades because school is boring and meaningless as can be for many kids, and/or because she is struggling (learning issue, mental health).

My kid is not a Marxist, is smart, has a learning issue, and gets poor grades because he just can’t bring himself to put in enough effort to do better, because he can’t see why it all matters. Intellectually he gets it, but it’s not visceral enough to help. Your daughter can say she is opting out, but if she enjoyed school and school work she wouldn’t opt out.

I’ve found I can’t motivate my son, to be honest. His grades come up when he decides they matter enough. That usually coincides with having a teacher he really likes and material he connects to.

He’s 17 and he won’t be going to Yale, or even UMD. I didn’t get that, and wasn’t okay with that, when he was 14. At 17 I am much more at peace with him being his own person, and trusting he’ll find his own path.

[Anonymous]

Your DD is getting bad grades — don’t blame Marxism, punish her.

I tel my kids that they are smart, capable, and so I expect them to get As. If they do not, their electronics/whatever are taken away so they have the time to live up to their potential. Works for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way she is 14, so of course she still has a lot of time to change her mind.

Wait, she's 14? Holy cow, just smile and nod and tell her you admire her passion and let her grow up over the next 3-4 years before you so much as mention it again. She is going to change her views and opinions and passions 3928475903245x before she gets to the end of high school.

That’s what I thought until she decided it’s okay to get Cs and Ds because capitalism is bad.

Is she on TikTok? Start by getting her off social media.

[Anonymous]

The problem with these childhood views is that they’re black and white - you’re either good or bad, you’re either fighting the Man or helping Him. That isn’t reality, which is almost always a shade of gray. In fact, I would argue that the shades of gray - of, the need for interpretation, different viewpoints, and judgement - is what makes life interesting and oftentimes separates the most cable from the merely functional.

Ask her to write a short paper about the virtues and shortcomings of communism/socialism and capitalism. Maybe she can share that with you - or someone else who can have a somewhat uncharged conversation about it - and see if she can identify a non-polar, tentative resting place. Remind her that’s she’s very young to have set ideas on these issues, so she is best served by continuing to study, write, and develop her thoughts over time. If she does this well and consistently, she could go to a great college, study with other great minds, and hone her ideas to share with the rest of us.

In essence, I wouldn’t argue with her, but encourage her to develop her ideas. That takes study and intellectual work. She may see our light of day or understand something entirely new.

[Anonymous]

14 and crappy grades? Explain that doors will close soon if she doesn’t play by certain rules.

Maybe there are hidden learning disabilities at play? My twice exceptional oldest needed support and accommodations to achieve in school.

Tell your child that she can reach great intellectual heights and do good work all her life. This is what my husband does. He has an MD and a PhD and works in cancer research. My cousin works for an international NGO that build camps for Syrian refugees. She has two PhDs. Both of these people are highly gifted, never fit any mold, and refused to work for the man.

Pay is crap, BTW, for these jobs, compared to years of study! My husband has been a lucky investor in stocks. My cousin married someone with means. They both do what they love, and found ways to reach MC or UMC lifestyles.

Note that she still needs to put in the work. It’s looking like she can’t do that, for some reason… hence why you should research ADHD and learning disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Your daughter could be overwhelmed or depressed. One reaction to such feelings is resignation to a simpler, less-complex life. While there’s nothing wrong with a simple life, it shouldn’t be chosen before learning and experiencing deeply. Doing so sounds like an excuse to engage or defense against the world. She may need to see a therapist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:14 and crappy grades? Explain that doors will close soon if she doesn’t play by certain rules.

Maybe there are hidden learning disabilities at play? My twice exceptional oldest needed support and accommodations to achieve in school.

Tell your child that she can reach great intellectual heights and do good work all her life. This is what my husband does. He has an MD and a PhD and works in cancer research. My cousin works for an international NGO that build camps for Syrian refugees. She has two PhDs. Both of these people are highly gifted, never fit any mold, and refused to work for the man.

Pay is crap, BTW, for these jobs, compared to years of study! My husband has been a lucky investor in stocks. My cousin married someone with means. They both do what they love, and found ways to reach MC or UMC lifestyles.

Note that she still needs to put in the work. It’s looking like she can’t do that, for some reason… hence why you should research ADHD and learning disabilities.

Me again. I know someone who works for a labor union. He has multiple advanced degrees. Getting good grades does not equal joining the rat race of capitalism. My 13 year old daughter has a high IQ and was always bored in school, even on the most advanced tracks. She still understands she needs the As. After school is her fun time (drawing, painting, writing, chatting with friends, etc). You really need to sit your kid down and have a serious talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your daughter could be overwhelmed or depressed. One reaction to such feelings is resignation to a simpler, less-complex life. While there’s nothing wrong with a simple life, it shouldn’t be chosen before learning and experiencing deeply. Doing so sounds like an excuse to engage or defense against the world. She may need to see a therapist.

This.

[Anonymous]

She can go on vacation to a country where Marx’s ideas are alive and well. Oh wait….
Get her off tiktock for now.

[Anonymous]

Does your DD know that Karl Marx studied literature, philosophy, and law at both the University of Bonn and the University of Berlin, that he worked as an editor and wrote published novels and short stories before becoming a philosopher and activist? He was a well-read, highly academic person and surrounded himself with the same.

Karl Marx would not approve of getting Cs and Ds in your freshman year of high school so you can knit and garden.

[Anonymous]

Lots of condescending suggestions here which have excellent track records of going over well with 14 year olds.

Your daughter is into gardening, sewing, baking, art, and linguistics, all of which can be pursued as careers. But some of these are easier to do, or come with more opportunities, with some advanced education, which requires better grades. Help her understand this instead of trying to convince her that she needs a corporate job and see how she responds.

Also agree with others on mental and emotional health. She’s reading Marx at 14, she’s clearly not dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of condescending suggestions here which have excellent track records of going over well with 14 year olds.

Your daughter is into gardening, sewing, baking, art, and linguistics, all of which can be pursued as careers. But some of these are easier to do, or come with more opportunities, with some advanced education, which requires better grades. Help her understand this instead of trying to convince her that she needs a corporate job and see how she responds.

Also agree with others on mental and emotional health. She’s reading Marx at 14, she’s clearly not dumb.

Is she really reading Marx or is she parroting soundbites about him from Twitter/Instagram/TikTok. If the former I am impressed. If the latter she is like every other faux-intellectual keyboard warrior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of condescending suggestions here which have excellent track records of going over well with 14 year olds.

Your daughter is into gardening, sewing, baking, art, and linguistics, all of which can be pursued as careers. But some of these are easier to do, or come with more opportunities, with some advanced education, which requires better grades. Help her understand this instead of trying to convince her that she needs a corporate job and see how she responds.

Also agree with others on mental and emotional health. She’s reading Marx at 14, she’s clearly not dumb.

Is she really reading Marx or is she parroting soundbites about him from Twitter/Instagram/TikTok. If the former I am impressed. If the latter she is like every other faux-intellectual keyboard warrior.

Either way, it’s still more intellectual than whatever you were doing at 14.

An unintelligent 14 year old couldn’t care less about this stuff. OP’s DD is clearly not that.

[Anonymous]

Having time for hobbies is really, really important to my health and happiness. Maybe she’s just different from you.

[Anonymous]

OP here and thank you for the comments! Here is my response that is WAY too long.

1. I will not continue on the route of selling out; you are all right that I should instead say that trying to get good grades and a job doesn't mean you'll be a corporate cog. Or maybe I should just shut up about it.

2. I have definitely tried to explain the idea that this is about closing doors, but I really suck at persuading her.

3. I am amused that my stress about this is coming through. Yes, I am completely stressed out about the bad grades, to the point where my husband has taken over discipline for getting bad grades and homework supervision, which is sort of funny because usually I'm the chill one. So DH is the one having the conversations about grades, taking away the phone, saying no to friend hangouts, etc. I try keep my conversations with DD in the theoretical realm. Although now that I think about it, that's not true because I have my hidden agenda, and she must see through me.

4. DCUM is so good at sniffing out ADHD and anxiety in kids! Yes she has both of those issues, and she is taking meds for both and seeing a therapist, plus she got an IEP about a year ago which has been great. But she has never seemed to be anxious about a career, oddly. When people asked her what she wanted to be when she grew up she has always said things like, "The world is going to be so different when I grow up so there is no use in thinking about that now. *shrug*" That or artist. On the other hand, she got really anxious about the possibility of her brother dying and now about things like the Russia-Ukraine war. So I don't think her attitude toward grades and her future comes from a place of anxiety. I think it comes from a misunderstanding of the world.

5. I will never let her have instagram, tiktok, etc. She can do that when she's 18, when I can't stop her. Of course, who knows what she does with her friends' phones and what she watches on youtube on her school laptop, but she is definitely reading about automation, capitalism, the arts and crafts movement, etc in hardcover books and on wikipedia. Perhaps I can give her a book that can round out her understanding.

6. I think she is so cool and I am incredibly proud of her. I love how she is always busy doing interesting things, and we do have a good relationship. I'm just struggling with this issue.