ISO examples of someone *really* selling out/abandoning morals

[Anonymous]

Also Marx had a PhD. So even Marx had to do well in school and apply himself and demonstrate that he could master subjects that weren’t of immediate interest to him. He rose through the system to get to a place in his life where he could actually make a difference.

[Anonymous]

I have a cousin who designs and optimizes the targeting of missiles and other airborne weapons. On the one hand, it's good to make sure your missile hit where it's supposed to but on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if some of the missiles he helped design are currently bombarding Gaza. He makes good money.

[Anonymous]

I think instead of fighting her, at this point, I'd try introducing her to people who do work in jobs that they consider to be mission driven. Just at least expose her to that, so she has some idea of what it's like.

And I don't mean expose her to it so she decides that she doesn't want to be a legal aid lawyer or a doctors without borders doctor - but so she sees that there is a path to merging your passions and ideals with earning a living.

She may decide at some point she'd rather make money doing something more corporate and be able to donate and join boards, to make her mark. Or she may not.

But I hope you're not the troll parent who's always telling her kid that only rich kids can follow their passions, everyone else has to be a McKinsey consultant.

It's pretty awesome your kid is into philosophy, linguistics, and gardening at 14. She sounds like a great kid, even if she's frustrating you with her grades.

[Anonymous]

Enron

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think instead of fighting her, at this point, I'd try introducing her to people who do work in jobs that they consider to be mission driven. Just at least expose her to that, so she has some idea of what it's like.

And I don't mean expose her to it so she decides that she doesn't want to be a legal aid lawyer or a doctors without borders doctor - but so she sees that there is a path to merging your passions and ideals with earning a living.

She may decide at some point she'd rather make money doing something more corporate and be able to donate and join boards, to make her mark. Or she may not.

But I hope you're not the troll parent who's always telling her kid that only rich kids can follow their passions, everyone else has to be a McKinsey consultant.

It's pretty awesome your kid is into philosophy, linguistics, and gardening at 14. She sounds like a great kid, even if she's frustrating you with her grades.

Agree. And the best way to fight "the man" is NOT to be a burn out. Doing well in school means she will have more choices in the future, including taking a mission-driven job rather than being forced to sell out to pay the bills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This probably won’t work, but you can make the argument that by not doing well or applying herself in school she is actually playing right into the hands of capitalists and robber barons. They would love to keep people in their place by using the established system to keep them down, what they don’t want is people rising through their ranks, playing the system to their advantage and then getting into positions of power and authority where they can actually make a difference

+1

Can’t change the system if you’re on the outside.

[Anonymous]

I felt like your dd in college and only wanted a do gooder type career, which felt like social work or teaching being the only acceptable answers. The problem was that I wasn't particularly a people person. I eventually realized you can use your skills to at least not make the world a worse place. Engineers can work on solar and finance people can work on affordable housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing wrong with needing to find intrinsic value in your work beyond a paycheck. It's how we get teachers and social workers and physical therapists and every other "helping profession". Some people are totally okay with working for a paycheck to fund the things that bring them value and enjoyment. (My spouse literally could not care less about the projects he works on--only that they provide a steady paycheck and he enjoys the people he works with). Other people need their job to provide value (I chose my field because it is intrinsically rewarding to me to help people one on one).

How old is your child? If she already has a business degree, my advice would be very different than if she's a junior in HS.

But regardless, I'm not sure sharing stories of morally corrupt lawyers to compare to worker bee lawyers is going to change her mind.

I mean... I am still in a helping profession and glad I didn't change my mind and become a corporate sell-out. I am 50 now and most pepole I know my age are having a midlife crisis about the meaningless work producing cogs for XYZ or making more money for 123 except people like me. My husband is the same way (works for government in his case on a mission he believes in). We manage, and thank god I didn't try to do something stupid with my life, which I might define the same way as your teenager, although to each their own. But I did go to fancy schools and work hard.

[Anonymous]

You are focusing on the wrong thing. Just give her a deadline of when she'll have to support herself and then off she goes. This is on HER to work through. Not on YOU to logic it out for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are focusing on the wrong thing. Just give her a deadline of when she'll have to support herself and then off she goes. This is on HER to work through. Not on YOU to logic it out for her.

I think the variation at 14 is to not pay for anything extra (beyond food and a roof) unless she gets her grades up. She can "sell out" and buy a nice lifestyle / hobby supplies with decent grades.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you have made a connection between getting good grades and getting a high paying job. At 14 thats not necessary. She should be aiming to learn for the sake of it. You say she loves philosophy and linguistics so she should be more interested in school. Philosophy is the love of learning! I think you need to drop any conversation about her career path and find out why she doesn't like school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you have made a connection between getting good grades and getting a high paying job. At 14 thats not necessary. She should be aiming to learn for the sake of it. You say she loves philosophy and linguistics so she should be more interested in school. Philosophy is the love of learning! I think you need to drop any conversation about her career path and find out why she doesn't like school.

Honestly, OP - if this is true -- you should really rethink your own morals. I hope your kid prevails, not with bad grades (if anytihng, wanting to be in a do-gooder job means she needs them to be better than the average person) but with her directionof contributing to the world, despite her parents' values and priorities for her

[Anonymous]

She will figure out capitalism and selling out when she has to pay for her own rent, phone, internet, car, etc.

[Anonymous]

Pretty much 95% of people on DC.

All of the consultants, lobbyists, corporate lawyers, politicians.

DC is the capital for these people.

[Anonymous]

If she's reading Marx and talking about late stage capitalism, she is going to be extremely unimpressed by you explaining that a lawyer for Amazon is at least not as bad as an insurance adjuster who denies claims because it gets them a bonus. She's going to learn the phrase "moral relativism" pretty quickly and also decide you are an idiot (note: she has probably already decided this).

You know what I would do is sit her down and explain the family finances to her. Tell her how much money you make, how much the mortgage is (you can give ballpark amounts for this stuff, you don't need to give her an itemized budget here). Does she like going on vacation? Enjoy clothes? Is she getting all her books on Marx from the library or a bookstore? What about showering, does she like running water? I'd explain how much each of these things cost, and where the money comes from.

And then I'd explain that you admire her principles but also, she will not be given an opportunity to live in a world where capitalism doesn't exist. At best, she could immigrate to a country with a more socialized democracy. But does she know how you gain entry to a place like the Netherlands? By learning to speak Dutch and having a professional skill that will help you get a job there that could get a visa approved or sponsored. And to do that, you can't fail out of high school.

She's just thinking very pie in the sky at the moment and using it to justify being lazy. The hard truth is that the world doesn't work the way she'd like it to. She's going to have to support herself if she doesn't want to be homeless. So she needs to get her $hit together, put more effort into school, figure out what her goals are, and work towards them. Even if her goal is "buy a homestead, live off the land, write anti-capitalist manifesto." Sadly, that will take some startup costs just like anything else. She will still need a j-o-b.