The impact of IEP or 504 plan on magnet program selection

[Anonymous]

Parents of students in the 75-85%ile bucket who attended a magnet, how was the experience?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hang on, the presentation references CES. I asked about middle school magnets and 70 percent is not correct. They have not shared any different cut off re MS.

I don’t know who you are but the OP asked about CES (and middle school down the road). And her main question was would the 504/IEP hurt her child’s chances. We can all agree that regardless of whether the cut off is 85th or 70th for a student with services, he would obviously not be worse off with a 504.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hang on, the presentation references CES. I asked about middle school magnets and 70 percent is not correct. They have not shared any different cut off re MS.

I don’t know who you are but the OP asked about CES (and middle school down the road). And her main question was would the 504/IEP hurt her child’s chances. We can all agree that regardless of whether the cut off is 85th or 70th for a student with services, he would obviously not be worse off with a 504.

OP here. I actually heard other moms complaining about their kids not placed into compact math despite of high map score due to behavioral issues.

[Anonymous]

Just wanted to say I have two kids with adhd and 504s who attended two different magnets (one in ES and one in HS). For my kids, the attentional issues are not as bad in classes where the material is more challenging. For them, the harder the class, typically the better the grades. My kids are both good readers, though, and never had any issues focusing on reading. I think their programs would be tough for kids who didn’t do well with books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hang on, the presentation references CES. I asked about middle school magnets and 70 percent is not correct. They have not shared any different cut off re MS.

I don’t know who you are but the OP asked about CES (and middle school down the road). And her main question was would the 504/IEP hurt her child’s chances. We can all agree that regardless of whether the cut off is 85th or 70th for a student with services, he would obviously not be worse off with a 504.

OP here. I actually heard other moms complaining about their kids not placed into compact math despite of high map score due to behavioral issues.

Well that is hugely discriminatory, punitive and shocking. I’m sad to hear that happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hang on, the presentation references CES. I asked about middle school magnets and 70 percent is not correct. They have not shared any different cut off re MS.

It only mentions the 70th specifically as the adjustment for CES, but look at the slides.

The MS magnets are referenced, too. Page 24 for Humanities and 25 for Math. These follow almost the exact same pattern as the CES slides, saying they "have a different local norm applied."

The prior one about CES on page 13 doesn't reference the specific number, but says, "a different local norm is applied" and has a bullet about other exceptions (private schooled or missing data). Then there are the talking points on page 14, then back to almost the identical slide on page 15, except this time the 70th percentile is mentioned.

They might employ a different local norm than the 70th percentile for the MS programs, but the criteria they put together for all these is so similar that I'd bet they went with 70th across the board. In the absence of MCPS posting a proper clarification with unambiguous numbers, that explanation is the leader in the clubhouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Under the current magnet pool construction paradigm, both for CES and criteria-based MS magnets, there is an adjustment to the MAP score criteria for students receiving services -- EML/ESOL, FARMS, IEP and 504. Instead of needing a locally normed 85th %ile score, a locally normed 70th %ile is required.

With a significant proportion of IEPs & 504s coming from those with the means to identify, formally, conditions and pursue associated accommodations, this is one of the ways that MCPS has left the magnet selection system vulnerable to gaming. That's not to say it is a principal reason that MCPS might push back on a designation; it's more of an afterthought, if even that.

The timing of designation vs. applicability to magnet lottery pool creation (or appeal) is unclear. There are also the other criteria (grades, reading level), and the whole paradigm could always change -- there is some possibility of that this coming year with a review scheduled for this spring.

This 70th percentile claim is a guess, no where has such info been confirmed or published. In fact I know a kid with a 504 plan and 92nd percentile nationally that didn’t get in the lottery. Pretty sure even on a moderate farms school that’s about 70th percentile.

It's not 70th percentile nationally; it's 70th percentile locally normed; that could be higher or lower than 70th percentile nationally depending on the FARMs rate of the school.

I didn’t say it was 70th nationally. Please read my post again. However I did say that the 70th percentile cut off for kids with IEPs was fabricated, because it was and also is not borne out by experience.

It is not fabricated. I know because they mistakenly didn't consider my child's plan, and we appealed, and he were moved into the wait pool - and they said that for my kid the percentile should have been the 70th, which is how he got into the pool. He would not have made it at the 85th percentile locally normed.

I am not the person who cited the 70th percentile earlier. It sounds like that may have come through an MPIA filing. But I am confident that the 70th percentile figure is correct based on our experience.

I know multiple other people whose kids have IEPs and weren’t put in the pool but must have been above 70th. So either it’s wrong or they didn’t apply it. To anyone.

They should appeal if that's the case and they are above 70th percentile locally normed and meet the other requirements (As in certain classes, above reading level, etc.).

[Anonymous]

Any idea whether the requirement for all As is also adjusted for kids with a 504 or IEP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hang on, the presentation references CES. I asked about middle school magnets and 70 percent is not correct. They have not shared any different cut off re MS.

I don’t know who you are but the OP asked about CES (and middle school down the road). And her main question was would the 504/IEP hurt her child’s chances. We can all agree that regardless of whether the cut off is 85th or 70th for a student with services, he would obviously not be worse off with a 504.

She used the term magnet which isn’t used for CES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hang on, the presentation references CES. I asked about middle school magnets and 70 percent is not correct. They have not shared any different cut off re MS.

It only mentions the 70th specifically as the adjustment for CES, but look at the slides.

The MS magnets are referenced, too. Page 24 for Humanities and 25 for Math. These follow almost the exact same pattern as the CES slides, saying they "have a different local norm applied."

The prior one about CES on page 13 doesn't reference the specific number, but says, "a different local norm is applied" and has a bullet about other exceptions (private schooled or missing data). Then there are the talking points on page 14, then back to almost the identical slide on page 15, except this time the 70th percentile is mentioned.

They might employ a different local norm than the 70th percentile for the MS programs, but the criteria they put together for all these is so similar that I'd bet they went with 70th across the board. In the absence of MCPS posting a proper clarification with unambiguous numbers, that explanation is the leader in the clubhouse.

Nope. Not for middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents of students in the 75-85%ile bucket who attended a magnet, how was the experience?

My kid is currently in a magnet and it’s clear that no one there meets that criteria. They just took MAP and classmates scored very high.

My kid does in fact have an IEP but they also score well above the 99th percentile (national normed) on MAP, and has all As.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hang on, the presentation references CES. I asked about middle school magnets and 70 percent is not correct. They have not shared any different cut off re MS.

It only mentions the 70th specifically as the adjustment for CES, but look at the slides.

The MS magnets are referenced, too. Page 24 for Humanities and 25 for Math. These follow almost the exact same pattern as the CES slides, saying they "have a different local norm applied."

The prior one about CES on page 13 doesn't reference the specific number, but says, "a different local norm is applied" and has a bullet about other exceptions (private schooled or missing data). Then there are the talking points on page 14, then back to almost the identical slide on page 15, except this time the 70th percentile is mentioned.

They might employ a different local norm than the 70th percentile for the MS programs, but the criteria they put together for all these is so similar that I'd bet they went with 70th across the board. In the absence of MCPS posting a proper clarification with unambiguous numbers, that explanation is the leader in the clubhouse.

Nope. Not for middle school.

Winderfully well supported opinion you have, there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents of students in the 75-85%ile bucket who attended a magnet, how was the experience?

My kid is currently in a magnet and it’s clear that no one there meets that criteria. They just took MAP and classmates scored very high.

My kid does in fact have an IEP but they also score well above the 99th percentile (national normed) on MAP, and has all As.

My IEP kid who attended all levels of magnets also scores 99th percentile on both reading and math. Nearly all As.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hang on, the presentation references CES. I asked about middle school magnets and 70 percent is not correct. They have not shared any different cut off re MS.

I don’t know who you are but the OP asked about CES (and middle school down the road). And her main question was would the 504/IEP hurt her child’s chances. We can all agree that regardless of whether the cut off is 85th or 70th for a student with services, he would obviously not be worse off with a 504.

She used the term magnet which isn’t used for CES

We're just regular speakers if English here. We don't train up on hair splitting distinctions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hang on, the presentation references CES. I asked about middle school magnets and 70 percent is not correct. They have not shared any different cut off re MS.

I don’t know who you are but the OP asked about CES (and middle school down the road). And her main question was would the 504/IEP hurt her child’s chances. We can all agree that regardless of whether the cut off is 85th or 70th for a student with services, he would obviously not be worse off with a 504.

She used the term magnet which isn’t used for CES

We're just regular speakers if English here. We don't train up on hair splitting distinctions.

Well regular English speakers who are familiar with the MCPS magnet programs (most posters on this thread) know what that means.