athletes at academically selective college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are in the recruiting process now and have a wide net of schools at all levels. At the point that things are being narrowed down (on both sides, by kid and by schools). This is not an athletic skill question but an academic one.

My kid has very good grades over 4.0 weighted and lots of rigor in the schedule (all honors or AP). (Also has other activities, like NHS, clubs, another sport that is more for fun, and community service hours but there's not "started a charity" or anything like that). Kid is in serious talks with coaches at some high academic schools, some that claim the average incoming freshman GPA is 3.9+. My kid, unweighted now, is prob. 3.8. I'm guessing that will go down a little (3.6-3.7) after this semester as there are a couple of B's in tough classes (like APCHEM, AP Precalc).

I have a hard time believing every kid on the sports teams at these schools have 3.9 GPAs. (If they do, good for them and that's amazing. This is not a rip on those kids, who are obv very bright). I'm just trying to determine if it is worth pushing forward with these schools, some of whom say my kid is their top recruit for the year/position, if there is no chance DC will make it through admissions. Let's say worst case scenario, DC ends the semester with a 3.6 unweighted (I think it will be closer to 3.75 but hard to know for sure since teachers haven't been great with the gradebook updates). But let's say 3.6. . . . is that going to be a dealbreaker? This is for schools at D1 and D3 level.

Anyone have EXPERIENCE with this (rather than opinions whether athletes should be allowed such "hooks")? Just don't want to keep an iron in a fire that has no chance.

For the D1 schools, if the coach is saying your kid is the top recruit for their position, then they can dig deep to get your kid accepted. Even at an Ivy, the coach will have a ton of clout for one or two players for the niche sport to essentially get them accepted.

D1 is a completely different animal from D3...again, if your kid is truly a top recruit, the standards will be different for your kid even compared to another recruited athlete that is say #5.

As another poster said, obviously revenue sports like football and basketball are a completely different animal (maybe hockey at a Harvard or one of the northern schools).

Lest some ambitious parent thinks hockey is a magic carpet to Harvard, many of their recruits are Canadian junior league drop outs at 20. Phenomenal players who enter as freshman at 19 or twenty after realizing they won’t or can’t make the NHL so offload into an Ivy. In other words, your little ice devil ain’t gonna just skate in after a few ‘learn to hockey’ lessons.

Aren't 100%, or maybe 99%, of D1 hockey players at least 19 or 20? I think they all play in a junior league of some sort before college, and a kid straight out of high school is an unicorn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can give insight into Ivy League only. This doesn’t apply for other D1 schools and I only have a little D3 experience with NESCAC schools. I have an athlete at Yale and another Ivy that I won’t name because then it’s easy to figure out who my kid is.

Every team does not have all HS kids with 3.9s. But some/many do, especially on the women’s teams. Ivy League schools manage their teams and admissions differently depending on the size of the school and the sport. So at DD #2’s school, sports like football and hockey have different standards and leeway than cross country or gymnastics because the latter have established that they can get the right caliber of athlete without compromising on a very high GPA. They also allocate pre-reads and recruits differently team by team and year by year. Some sports (rowing, squash) have a lot of international recruits that make it harder to know what’s really going on academically.

What year is your child, and what sport? Are the D1 schools Ivy or t20? If they’re a sophomore and this is an Ivy, they’re just putting your kid into the wide part of the funnel and you won’t really know where these conversations are going until at least this summer.

What is the profile of hockey and football kids at Ivy League schools?

Dumb and dumber

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So we are in the recruiting process now and have a wide net of schools at all levels. At the point that things are being narrowed down (on both sides, by kid and by schools). This is not an athletic skill question but an academic one.

My kid has very good grades over 4.0 weighted and lots of rigor in the schedule (all honors or AP). (Also has other activities, like NHS, clubs, another sport that is more for fun, and community service hours but there's not "started a charity" or anything like that). Kid is in serious talks with coaches at some high academic schools, some that claim the average incoming freshman GPA is 3.9+. My kid, unweighted now, is prob. 3.8. I'm guessing that will go down a little (3.6-3.7) after this semester as there are a couple of B's in tough classes (like APCHEM, AP Precalc).

I have a hard time believing every kid on the sports teams at these schools have 3.9 GPAs. (If they do, good for them and that's amazing. This is not a rip on those kids, who are obv very bright). I'm just trying to determine if it is worth pushing forward with these schools, some of whom say my kid is their top recruit for the year/position, if there is no chance DC will make it through admissions. Let's say worst case scenario, DC ends the semester with a 3.6 unweighted (I think it will be closer to 3.75 but hard to know for sure since teachers haven't been great with the gradebook updates). But let's say 3.6. . . . is that going to be a dealbreaker? This is for schools at D1 and D3 level.

Anyone have EXPERIENCE with this (rather than opinions whether athletes should be allowed such "hooks")? Just don't want to keep an iron in a fire that has no chance.

I have been a college athlete and coach (both at smallish schools), and can tell you that even there the freshman athletes are generally encouraged/required to attend regular study halls for their first semester or year in order to build good study habits, and if they show that they can manage will then frequently be released from that obligation. In my experience, athletes outside of basketball (which competes across semesters and almost always involves more travel than any other sport) tend to have stronger GPAs than the student body as a whole, and sometimes will have a whole raft of honor roll students (without having their work done for them like certain athletes in revenue sports at power conference D1 schools).

[Anonymous]

Our DD plays at one of the top NESCAC schools. She was a good student at HS but only probably top 20%. She was a borderline D1/top D3 player and did not attract the recruiting interest at the sort of academic schools she wanted to go to, so turned down ‘random’ D1 schools and focused on the NESCAC - she was offered at 3 schools and was told she was a top recruit by all of them. She passed pre-read for all and is now studying and loving her time there. Most NESCAC coaches have one or two ‘supports’ where if your DD meets the minimum requirements they will get supported and most likely in. It all depends on how much they want your DD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our DD plays at one of the top NESCAC schools. She was a good student at HS but only probably top 20%. She was a borderline D1/top D3 player and did not attract the recruiting interest at the sort of academic schools she wanted to go to, so turned down ‘random’ D1 schools and focused on the NESCAC - she was offered at 3 schools and was told she was a top recruit by all of them. She passed pre-read for all and is now studying and loving her time there. Most NESCAC coaches have one or two ‘supports’ where if your DD meets the minimum requirements they will get supported and most likely in.

It all depends on how much they want your DD.

This is not true for NESCACs if you are not within the academic index requirements. My DD was told by multiple coaches she was their number one recruit. Williams and Middlebury both then had to walk away because the admissions office said it was never going to work out, her grades just weren't there. Hamilton coach loved her and, because she was the top recruit, was able to get her to pass the pre-read. In the end, she took an offer that came from an Ivy at the beginning of her senior year. Then she quit after one college season.

[Anonymous]

Are the pre-reads/decisions made on weighted or unweighted grades?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our DD plays at one of the top NESCAC schools. She was a good student at HS but only probably top 20%. She was a borderline D1/top D3 player and did not attract the recruiting interest at the sort of academic schools she wanted to go to, so turned down ‘random’ D1 schools and focused on the NESCAC - she was offered at 3 schools and was told she was a top recruit by all of them. She passed pre-read for all and is now studying and loving her time there. Most NESCAC coaches have one or two ‘supports’ where if your DD meets the minimum requirements they will get supported and most likely in.

It all depends on how much they want your DD.

This is not true for NESCACs if you are not within the academic index requirements. My DD was told by multiple coaches she was their number one recruit. Williams and Middlebury both then had to walk away because the admissions office said it was never going to work out, her grades just weren't there. Hamilton coach loved her and, because she was the top recruit, was able to get her to pass the pre-read. In the end, she took an offer that came from an Ivy at the beginning of her senior year. Then she quit after one college season.

After quitting she was able to stay at the Ivy though correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our DD plays at one of the top NESCAC schools. She was a good student at HS but only probably top 20%. She was a borderline D1/top D3 player and did not attract the recruiting interest at the sort of academic schools she wanted to go to, so turned down ‘random’ D1 schools and focused on the NESCAC - she was offered at 3 schools and was told she was a top recruit by all of them. She passed pre-read for all and is now studying and loving her time there. Most NESCAC coaches have one or two ‘supports’ where if your DD meets the minimum requirements they will get supported and most likely in.

It all depends on how much they want your DD.

This is not true for NESCACs if you are not within the academic index requirements. My DD was told by multiple coaches she was their number one recruit. Williams and Middlebury both then had to walk away because the admissions office said it was never going to work out, her grades just weren't there. Hamilton coach loved her and, because she was the top recruit, was able to get her to pass the pre-read. In the end, she took an offer that came from an Ivy at the beginning of her senior year. Then she quit after one college season.

After quitting she was able to stay at the Ivy though correct?

Yeah she wasn’t good evough obv

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our DD plays at one of the top NESCAC schools. She was a good student at HS but only probably top 20%. She was a borderline D1/top D3 player and did not attract the recruiting interest at the sort of academic schools she wanted to go to, so turned down ‘random’ D1 schools and focused on the NESCAC - she was offered at 3 schools and was told she was a top recruit by all of them. She passed pre-read for all and is now studying and loving her time there. Most NESCAC coaches have one or two ‘supports’ where if your DD meets the minimum requirements they will get supported and most likely in.

It all depends on how much they want your DD.

This is not true for NESCACs if you are not within the academic index requirements. My DD was told by multiple coaches she was their number one recruit. Williams and Middlebury both then had to walk away because the admissions office said it was never going to work out, her grades just weren't there. Hamilton coach loved her and, because she was the top recruit, was able to get her to pass the pre-read. In the end, she took an offer that came from an Ivy at the beginning of her senior year. Then she quit after one college season.

I think the point is exactly that, as long as you are within academic parameters, meaning, if they really want you they will get you in, if need be, the lowest point on the range…not many kids get into these schools with the lowest point on the range…

[Anonymous]

My kid just recruited to high academic D3 (high school senior; popular team sport). They had the academics, mid 1500 SATs, top 10% at very rigorous school/not known for grade inflation and great teacher recs. When I looked at recruiting profiles of other kids in sport a ton of kids had higher GPAs… seemed like lots and lots of kids had super high GPAs (4.5s and higher) but they may have been at schools that graded very differently as often these super high GPAs were accompanied by SATs/ACTs that — when mentioned — were not so high. Coaches at these schools are not admissions officers and don’t know the high schools. I think that is why - at least I felt - some coaches seemed to like to hear about SAT/AP scores because they might give them more of a sense if the kid is competitive in a way that might be harder to figure out with just GPA as they are going to be less familiar with the schools/course loads than admissions officers. My sense is that Ivy League schools had more flexibility than the top D3 high academic schools. Went to one Ivy camp and coach stated minimum SAT (seemed quite low to me for an Ivy). I suspect many people assume academics are lower for athletes … and that may be the case for some but not for all.

[Anonymous]

Another data point, similar to above, my DD was mid 1400s and top 10% at a top high school (but not Big 3), with high rigor. Was offered spot at top NESCAC. Went to Ivy instead. Ivies are all over the place in terms of academic standards. She did not have any issues.
A couple observations. First, some coaches are clueless about admissions. Usually, these are the newer coaches. But also, some of these coaches did not go to top schools themselves and college admissions is like a foreign language to them. Second, course rigor is important. If you are a talented athlete, the admissions office just needs an indication or two that you can handle the work. Good SAT is the easiest thing to rely on, and going to a top high school and taking tough courses without falling apart works as well.

[Anonymous]

We took a look at the bios of athletes at a handful of T20 schools my athletic DC was interested in. This would be for a non-revenue sport. So not football, basketball, or hockey. Think track. The athletes were all outstanding students. Almost all were all-academic superstars.

[Anonymous]

My kid is a hockey player, and he attended a camp prior to his senior year in HS run by a bunch of coaches from different highly selective schools (Harvard, Dartmouth, Williams, Middlebury, and some others). There was a Q&A session for the parents, and I remember one parent asking whether a really good academic profile would help to balance out a sub-optimal athletic profile for purposes of getting the coach's attention to help with with admissions. And I'll never forget what the Dartmouth guy said. He stated that they wanted to best possible hockey players who could get in to the school. Once they met the minimum academic threshold, anything "better" than that was not important, at least from the coach's perspective.

I assume that same approach holds true for most of the Ivy and Ivy-like schools.

[Anonymous]

My son is a junior and has committed to a top 10 school. He is one of the top ranked athletes for his graduating year and has a 4.0 uw GPA with rigorous coursework. He had close to 70-80 schools reach out to him, including most of the service academies and ivies.

Throughout the summer the coaches discussed not only his athletic performance but also reviewed his academics. He provided transcripts multiple times and once again before going on official visits.

Before making his final decision he asked what the admission process looks like but was told each school said they already did an academic preread, and as long as he achieved a specific score on the ACTs/SATs, and his grades didn’t drop, he should be fine. No coach can guarantee admission but they can advocate for your athlete. The coaches are well aware who can make it through the admissions process and will not offer an official visit unless your application is viable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is a junior and has committed to a top 10 school. He is one of the top ranked athletes for his graduating year and has a 4.0 uw GPA with rigorous coursework. He had close to 70-80 schools reach out to him, including most of the service academies and ivies.

Throughout the summer the coaches discussed not only his athletic performance but also reviewed his academics. He provided transcripts multiple times and once again before going on official visits.

Before making his final decision he asked what the admission process looks like but each school said they already did an academic preread, and as long as he achieved a specific score on the ACTs/SATs, and his grades didn’t drop, he should be fine. No coach can guarantee admission but they can advocate for your athlete. The coaches are well aware who can make it through the admissions process and will not offer an official visit unless your application is viable.

What sport

Won’t mention for privacy reasons, but a non revenue sport (not basket weaving!)