parenting plan - what you wish you had included or really great provisions that you wish you had included

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

If its his time you should not be approving a sleep over.

If it's in the agreement that parenting time is for biological parents, then yes you get offered parenting time first, before a child would spend extended time away from the biological parents.

Part of parenting is giving your kids a variety of experiences, including social experiences and experience with separation. Divorce doesn't mean the kid should give those things up!

exactly. ROFR is for very young kids and should be carefully tailored to the situation. to me the nightmare would be that if I, say, had a work event to go to one evening when I had custody time I’d have to “offer” that to my ex before getting a sitter. He says yes and then guess what - flakes out and refuses to come get kid, leaving me screwed.

ROFR should really be very carefully drafted to make sure YOU get the flexibility you need, and that it won’t hurt the child. Probably should in any event sunset by the time the kid is in mid-elementary.

The solution in this case would be to make rofr for maybe 8 or more hours, so it wouldn't apply to an evening work event.

No, you’d have to tailor it more than that. If it’s an infant or small child, you might want it to be less than 8 hrs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

OP here- the clause I have now that’s applicable to this is that any unsupervised by parent time anywhere other than school, camp, classes requires consent unless we’ve shifted as mutual general rule for any kid. That shift is revocable. Again, will see what flies.

so this effectively means that your stbx gets veto power if you want to let your kids stay with your mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

If its his time you should not be approving a sleep over.

If it's in the agreement that parenting time is for biological parents, then yes you get offered parenting time first, before a child would spend extended time away from the biological parents.

What happens when your child is 10 and really wants to go Lego day camp with his friends, or he’s 14 and he wants to go to a sleep-away lacrosse clinic with his team, and your ex decides he’s going to exercise his ROFR? Your provision is about you, not about what is best for your child.

The ex would still have this imput if you were still married-if you were married one parent could still say no to that. And good luck to an ex who keeps a 14 yo instead of letting them go to the clinic-I'm sure child would be super pleasant and fun in that situation LOL.

If I go on a business trip on my parenting time, I offer ex the time first, before arranging care. Why shouldn't ex get parenting time with his own dc before a grandparent or friend? That is what rofr ensures.

It's in the child's best interest to be with one of their own parents. That's why that provision is there.

The clause also means that the other parent

the point of divorcing is so that you minimize the amount of agreements and contact you have to make. ROFR means that you potentially have to negotiate with your ex every time you want to leave the kid for three hours. this may make sense for an infant but not an older child. and there can be unintended consequences like your ex flaking on an agreement to take the kids or blocking a sleepover with cousins.

barring some specific concerns (like not trusting a grandparent babysitting or thinking your ex will just pawn an infant off on a nanny) the best parenting agreement will be limited to the *actual* concerns you have, rather than being overly prescriptive. there are some theoretical issues you do want to cover because they are so important, like relocation. but you don’t want to try to dictate every tiny thing.

Actually, you should try to spell it out clearly. That leaves less room for conflict.

You don't 'negotiate' with rofr. You offer the time and they accept it or not. No reason to say why you are offering time, just that you are. It's not complicated.

yes it can be complicated. the ex can fail to respond quickly. the ex can day he will take kids then flake. the ex can irrationally block things like grandparent time. the ex can use it to control dating. the ex can use it to interfere with new relationships. the clause needs to be very carefully drafted and you need to consider your motivation for including it, and realize it applies to you and not just the imagined bad things your ex will do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

If its his time you should not be approving a sleep over.

If it's in the agreement that parenting time is for biological parents, then yes you get offered parenting time first, before a child would spend extended time away from the biological parents.

Part of parenting is giving your kids a variety of experiences, including social experiences and experience with separation. Divorce doesn't mean the kid should give those things up!

It doesn't mean kid 'gives those things up'. It means that both parents have to be ok with it, like it would if they were married.

I mean, if you are fine with the idea of your kids spending time with whomever the ex thinks is fine to leave your kids with, and you don't want the parenting time-don't put rofr in your plan. But it exists for very valid reasons.

when you’re married, both parents don’t legally have to agree to a sleepover. a ROFR in a parenting plan is a legal requirement. the *whole reason* you are divorcing is that you are in some way bad at communicating and don’t get along - so the parenting plan should strive to reduce friction points where you have to communicate. there’s a reason why what you do with parenting time is generally controlled by the other parent - because you as a couple are bad at agreeing in some way!

Well, if you're fine with the ex leaving the kids with whomever on his parenting time, and you don't want the time with your kids, then don't put rofr in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

If its his time you should not be approving a sleep over.

If it's in the agreement that parenting time is for biological parents, then yes you get offered parenting time first, before a child would spend extended time away from the biological parents.

What happens when your child is 10 and really wants to go Lego day camp with his friends, or he’s 14 and he wants to go to a sleep-away lacrosse clinic with his team, and your ex decides he’s going to exercise his ROFR? Your provision is about you, not about what is best for your child.

The ex would still have this imput if you were still married-if you were married one parent could still say no to that. And good luck to an ex who keeps a 14 yo instead of letting them go to the clinic-I'm sure child would be super pleasant and fun in that situation LOL.

If I go on a business trip on my parenting time, I offer ex the time first, before arranging care. Why shouldn't ex get parenting time with his own dc before a grandparent or friend? That is what rofr ensures.

It's in the child's best interest to be with one of their own parents. That's why that provision is there.

The clause also means that the other parent

the point of divorcing is so that you minimize the amount of agreements and contact you have to make. ROFR means that you potentially have to negotiate with your ex every time you want to leave the kid for three hours. this may make sense for an infant but not an older child. and there can be unintended consequences like your ex flaking on an agreement to take the kids or blocking a sleepover with cousins.

barring some specific concerns (like not trusting a grandparent babysitting or thinking your ex will just pawn an infant off on a nanny) the best parenting agreement will be limited to the *actual* concerns you have, rather than being overly prescriptive. there are some theoretical issues you do want to cover because they are so important, like relocation. but you don’t want to try to dictate every tiny thing.

Actually, you should try to spell it out clearly. That leaves less room for conflict.

You don't 'negotiate' with rofr. You offer the time and they accept it or not. No reason to say why you are offering time, just that you are. It's not complicated.

So, you just say "Do you want Larla from 2 to 6 p.m. on Saturday?" and not "Larla was invited to Zoe's birthday party. She really wants to go to. The party is at X place. Can she go?"

Because the former seems unfair to Larla, and potentially to the other parent who is being set up to disappoint their kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

If its his time you should not be approving a sleep over.

If it's in the agreement that parenting time is for biological parents, then yes you get offered parenting time first, before a child would spend extended time away from the biological parents.

What happens when your child is 10 and really wants to go Lego day camp with his friends, or he’s 14 and he wants to go to a sleep-away lacrosse clinic with his team, and your ex decides he’s going to exercise his ROFR? Your provision is about you, not about what is best for your child.

The ex would still have this imput if you were still married-if you were married one parent could still say no to that. And good luck to an ex who keeps a 14 yo instead of letting them go to the clinic-I'm sure child would be super pleasant and fun in that situation LOL.

If I go on a business trip on my parenting time, I offer ex the time first, before arranging care. Why shouldn't ex get parenting time with his own dc before a grandparent or friend? That is what rofr ensures.

It's in the child's best interest to be with one of their own parents. That's why that provision is there.

The clause also means that the other parent

the point of divorcing is so that you minimize the amount of agreements and contact you have to make. ROFR means that you potentially have to negotiate with your ex every time you want to leave the kid for three hours. this may make sense for an infant but not an older child. and there can be unintended consequences like your ex flaking on an agreement to take the kids or blocking a sleepover with cousins.

barring some specific concerns (like not trusting a grandparent babysitting or thinking your ex will just pawn an infant off on a nanny) the best parenting agreement will be limited to the *actual* concerns you have, rather than being overly prescriptive. there are some theoretical issues you do want to cover because they are so important, like relocation. but you don’t want to try to dictate every tiny thing.

Actually, you should try to spell it out clearly. That leaves less room for conflict.

You don't 'negotiate' with rofr. You offer the time and they accept it or not. No reason to say why you are offering time, just that you are. It's not complicated.

So, you just say "Do you want Larla from 2 to 6 p.m. on Saturday?" and not "Larla was invited to Zoe's birthday party. She really wants to go to. The party is at X place. Can she go?"

Because the former seems unfair to Larla, and potentially to the other parent who is being set up to disappoint their kid.

I mean, the most obvious and simple solution to this if you think the other parent would stop them from going, would be to stay at the party for 5 or 10 minutes or show up 5 or 10 minutes early. Then she's not away from you for over 4 hours. That's completely legal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

If its his time you should not be approving a sleep over.

If it's in the agreement that parenting time is for biological parents, then yes you get offered parenting time first, before a child would spend extended time away from the biological parents.

What happens when your child is 10 and really wants to go Lego day camp with his friends, or he’s 14 and he wants to go to a sleep-away lacrosse clinic with his team, and your ex decides he’s going to exercise his ROFR? Your provision is about you, not about what is best for your child.

The ex would still have this imput if you were still married-if you were married one parent could still say no to that. And good luck to an ex who keeps a 14 yo instead of letting them go to the clinic-I'm sure child would be super pleasant and fun in that situation LOL.

If I go on a business trip on my parenting time, I offer ex the time first, before arranging care. Why shouldn't ex get parenting time with his own dc before a grandparent or friend? That is what rofr ensures.

It's in the child's best interest to be with one of their own parents. That's why that provision is there.

The clause also means that the other parent

the point of divorcing is so that you minimize the amount of agreements and contact you have to make. ROFR means that you potentially have to negotiate with your ex every time you want to leave the kid for three hours. this may make sense for an infant but not an older child. and there can be unintended consequences like your ex flaking on an agreement to take the kids or blocking a sleepover with cousins.

barring some specific concerns (like not trusting a grandparent babysitting or thinking your ex will just pawn an infant off on a nanny) the best parenting agreement will be limited to the *actual* concerns you have, rather than being overly prescriptive. there are some theoretical issues you do want to cover because they are so important, like relocation. but you don’t want to try to dictate every tiny thing.

Actually, you should try to spell it out clearly. That leaves less room for conflict.

You don't 'negotiate' with rofr. You offer the time and they accept it or not. No reason to say why you are offering time, just that you are. It's not complicated.

So, you just say "Do you want Larla from 2 to 6 p.m. on Saturday?" and not "Larla was invited to Zoe's birthday party. She really wants to go to. The party is at X place. Can she go?"

Because the former seems unfair to Larla, and potentially to the other parent who is being set up to disappoint their kid.

I mean, the most obvious and simple solution to this if you think the other parent would stop them from going, would be to stay at the party for 5 or 10 minutes or show up 5 or 10 minutes early. Then she's not away from you for over 4 hours. That's completely legal.

It would be much better not to open the door to this in the first place. Can you imagine having to get permission from your ex for every playdate? Unless there’s some compelling reason, just leave it out, or narrow it to cover only exactly the bad thing you are trying to avoid.

[Anonymous]

Extracurriculars. Specifically, a certain number that you agree each kid can do, a commitment from both parents to get them to the activities, and a ROFR if one parent is unwilling to take them to the activity (essential for team and travel sports). I ended up getting a modification with black-and-white language about sports (I pay for them, kid gets to participate, and the activity takes precedence over the entire concept of parenting time - for my kid, this was huge because kid ended up being super athletic and his sport has been his safe and happy place through difficult times and my psycho ex argued that kid couldn't do anything at all on his time (he'd prefer to leave a 6-year-old home alone to play xbox than allow me to take him to soccer practice and back).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

DP. I think the right of first refusal needs to be more carefully crafted so it doesn’t hurt the child. It’s mainly important for a younger child if you think they are going to be regularly sent to a babysitter or daycare and you want to maximize every second with them. When they get older this isn’t as big a deal. I started out trying to craft a very restrictive ROFR but I dropped it after I realized I was really fighting against something imaginary (a scenario where my stbx immediately got a GF and started leaving our kid with her). I didn’t want the agreement to interfere with normal and health kid things, like DS spending the weekend with his cousins. At the end of the day I felt I had negotiated an overall custody plan I was happy with and didn’t need to micromanage ROFR. But DS is 10 - if he had been a baby I probably would have felt differently.

You could also try customizing ROFR to apply only to paid care, so that it won’t interfere with friend sleepovers, etc.

The things I am glad we included have to do with safety - no guns, smoke alarms required, seatbelts. That’s because stbx is a big dummy about them.

Bad idea. Paid care means dad could dump your kid with a random girlfriend or hook up. I would prefer a babysitter. It would be better to specify that play dates and sports are not included in ROFR

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Extracurriculars. Specifically, a certain number that you agree each kid can do, a commitment from both parents to get them to the activities, and a ROFR if one parent is unwilling to take them to the activity (essential for team and travel sports). I ended up getting a modification with black-and-white language about sports (I pay for them, kid gets to participate, and the activity takes precedence over the entire concept of parenting time - for my kid, this was huge because kid ended up being super athletic and his sport has been his safe and happy place through difficult times and my psycho ex argued that kid couldn't do anything at all on his time (he'd prefer to leave a 6-year-old home alone to play xbox than allow me to take him to soccer practice and back).

bravo to this, and great illustration of customizing for your own situation. my DH is a total jerk (of course) but extracurriculars are one thing we actually agree on, and he wouldn’t ever refuse to let me transport the kid on “his” time (much more likely in fact that he would overly rely on me to do it …).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

If its his time you should not be approving a sleep over.

If it's in the agreement that parenting time is for biological parents, then yes you get offered parenting time first, before a child would spend extended time away from the biological parents.

What happens when your child is 10 and really wants to go Lego day camp with his friends, or he’s 14 and he wants to go to a sleep-away lacrosse clinic with his team, and your ex decides he’s going to exercise his ROFR? Your provision is about you, not about what is best for your child.

The ex would still have this imput if you were still married-if you were married one parent could still say no to that. And good luck to an ex who keeps a 14 yo instead of letting them go to the clinic-I'm sure child would be super pleasant and fun in that situation LOL.

If I go on a business trip on my parenting time, I offer ex the time first, before arranging care. Why shouldn't ex get parenting time with his own dc before a grandparent or friend? That is what rofr ensures.

It's in the child's best interest to be with one of their own parents. That's why that provision is there.

The clause also means that the other parent

the point of divorcing is so that you minimize the amount of agreements and contact you have to make. ROFR means that you potentially have to negotiate with your ex every time you want to leave the kid for three hours. this may make sense for an infant but not an older child. and there can be unintended consequences like your ex flaking on an agreement to take the kids or blocking a sleepover with cousins.

barring some specific concerns (like not trusting a grandparent babysitting or thinking your ex will just pawn an infant off on a nanny) the best parenting agreement will be limited to the *actual* concerns you have, rather than being overly prescriptive. there are some theoretical issues you do want to cover because they are so important, like relocation. but you don’t want to try to dictate every tiny thing.

Actually, you should try to spell it out clearly. That leaves less room for conflict.

You don't 'negotiate' with rofr. You offer the time and they accept it or not. No reason to say why you are offering time, just that you are. It's not complicated.

So, you just say "Do you want Larla from 2 to 6 p.m. on Saturday?" and not "Larla was invited to Zoe's birthday party. She really wants to go to. The party is at X place. Can she go?"

Because the former seems unfair to Larla, and potentially to the other parent who is being set up to disappoint their kid.

I mean, the most obvious and simple solution to this if you think the other parent would stop them from going, would be to stay at the party for 5 or 10 minutes or show up 5 or 10 minutes early. Then she's not away from you for over 4 hours. That's completely legal.

It would be much better not to open the door to this in the first place. Can you imagine having to get permission from your ex for every playdate? Unless there’s some compelling reason, just leave it out, or narrow it to cover only exactly the bad thing you are trying to avoid.

Well if you leave it out, your ex can leave the kids with whomever he wants as long as he wants on his parenting time, even if you are available and desire the time that he's not using. You could make the rofr 8 hours, a lot of people do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

DP. I think the right of first refusal needs to be more carefully crafted so it doesn’t hurt the child. It’s mainly important for a younger child if you think they are going to be regularly sent to a babysitter or daycare and you want to maximize every second with them. When they get older this isn’t as big a deal. I started out trying to craft a very restrictive ROFR but I dropped it after I realized I was really fighting against something imaginary (a scenario where my stbx immediately got a GF and started leaving our kid with her). I didn’t want the agreement to interfere with normal and health kid things, like DS spending the weekend with his cousins. At the end of the day I felt I had negotiated an overall custody plan I was happy with and didn’t need to micromanage ROFR. But DS is 10 - if he had been a baby I probably would have felt differently.

You could also try customizing ROFR to apply only to paid care, so that it won’t interfere with friend sleepovers, etc.

The things I am glad we included have to do with safety - no guns, smoke alarms required, seatbelts. That’s because stbx is a big dummy about them.

Bad idea. Paid care means dad could dump your kid with a random girlfriend or hook up. I would prefer a babysitter. It would be better to specify that play dates and sports are not included in ROFR

If you actually are worried about your ex “dumping” your kids on a sketchy girlfriend, then sure, address that. But when I was drafting our agreement I was forced to realize that no matter how much I hated the idea of my ex’s theoretical future GF spending time with my child, trying to control that was not a good idea (in my case). I would want any GF to bond with my kid and pitch in if my ex flakes, and I would also not want restrictions on my own future partners.

The situation with paid care that you might want to address is if you have a smaller child and your ex decides to hire a nanny afterschool even though, say, you work from home and can have the kid at your house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

If its his time you should not be approving a sleep over.

If it's in the agreement that parenting time is for biological parents, then yes you get offered parenting time first, before a child would spend extended time away from the biological parents.

What happens when your child is 10 and really wants to go Lego day camp with his friends, or he’s 14 and he wants to go to a sleep-away lacrosse clinic with his team, and your ex decides he’s going to exercise his ROFR? Your provision is about you, not about what is best for your child.

The ex would still have this imput if you were still married-if you were married one parent could still say no to that. And good luck to an ex who keeps a 14 yo instead of letting them go to the clinic-I'm sure child would be super pleasant and fun in that situation LOL.

If I go on a business trip on my parenting time, I offer ex the time first, before arranging care. Why shouldn't ex get parenting time with his own dc before a grandparent or friend? That is what rofr ensures.

It's in the child's best interest to be with one of their own parents. That's why that provision is there.

The clause also means that the other parent

the point of divorcing is so that you minimize the amount of agreements and contact you have to make. ROFR means that you potentially have to negotiate with your ex every time you want to leave the kid for three hours. this may make sense for an infant but not an older child. and there can be unintended consequences like your ex flaking on an agreement to take the kids or blocking a sleepover with cousins.

barring some specific concerns (like not trusting a grandparent babysitting or thinking your ex will just pawn an infant off on a nanny) the best parenting agreement will be limited to the *actual* concerns you have, rather than being overly prescriptive. there are some theoretical issues you do want to cover because they are so important, like relocation. but you don’t want to try to dictate every tiny thing.

Actually, you should try to spell it out clearly. That leaves less room for conflict.

You don't 'negotiate' with rofr. You offer the time and they accept it or not. No reason to say why you are offering time, just that you are. It's not complicated.

So, you just say "Do you want Larla from 2 to 6 p.m. on Saturday?" and not "Larla was invited to Zoe's birthday party. She really wants to go to. The party is at X place. Can she go?"

Because the former seems unfair to Larla, and potentially to the other parent who is being set up to disappoint their kid.

I mean, the most obvious and simple solution to this if you think the other parent would stop them from going, would be to stay at the party for 5 or 10 minutes or show up 5 or 10 minutes early. Then she's not away from you for over 4 hours. That's completely legal.

It would be much better not to open the door to this in the first place. Can you imagine having to get permission from your ex for every playdate? Unless there’s some compelling reason, just leave it out, or narrow it to cover only exactly the bad thing you are trying to avoid.

Well if you leave it out, your ex can leave the kids with whomever he wants as long as he wants on his parenting time, even if you are available and desire the time that he's not using. You could make the rofr 8 hours, a lot of people do that.

again - if you have a concrete reason to believe your ex would do that, include it. but even 8 hrs might be restrictive, blocking a sleepover with Grandma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

If its his time you should not be approving a sleep over.

If it's in the agreement that parenting time is for biological parents, then yes you get offered parenting time first, before a child would spend extended time away from the biological parents.

What happens when your child is 10 and really wants to go Lego day camp with his friends, or he’s 14 and he wants to go to a sleep-away lacrosse clinic with his team, and your ex decides he’s going to exercise his ROFR? Your provision is about you, not about what is best for your child.

The ex would still have this imput if you were still married-if you were married one parent could still say no to that. And good luck to an ex who keeps a 14 yo instead of letting them go to the clinic-I'm sure child would be super pleasant and fun in that situation LOL.

If I go on a business trip on my parenting time, I offer ex the time first, before arranging care. Why shouldn't ex get parenting time with his own dc before a grandparent or friend? That is what rofr ensures.

It's in the child's best interest to be with one of their own parents. That's why that provision is there.

The clause also means that the other parent

the point of divorcing is so that you minimize the amount of agreements and contact you have to make. ROFR means that you potentially have to negotiate with your ex every time you want to leave the kid for three hours. this may make sense for an infant but not an older child. and there can be unintended consequences like your ex flaking on an agreement to take the kids or blocking a sleepover with cousins.

barring some specific concerns (like not trusting a grandparent babysitting or thinking your ex will just pawn an infant off on a nanny) the best parenting agreement will be limited to the *actual* concerns you have, rather than being overly prescriptive. there are some theoretical issues you do want to cover because they are so important, like relocation. but you don’t want to try to dictate every tiny thing.

Actually, you should try to spell it out clearly. That leaves less room for conflict.

You don't 'negotiate' with rofr. You offer the time and they accept it or not. No reason to say why you are offering time, just that you are. It's not complicated.

So, you just say "Do you want Larla from 2 to 6 p.m. on Saturday?" and not "Larla was invited to Zoe's birthday party. She really wants to go to. The party is at X place. Can she go?"

Because the former seems unfair to Larla, and potentially to the other parent who is being set up to disappoint their kid.

I mean, the most obvious and simple solution to this if you think the other parent would stop them from going, would be to stay at the party for 5 or 10 minutes or show up 5 or 10 minutes early. Then she's not away from you for over 4 hours. That's completely legal.

Until there's a 5 hour party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think you can ban the other parent from taking the child to religious things on their parenting time OP.

I'm very happy that we included Right of First Refusal. Ours starts at 4 hours-basically if the parent who has parenting time cannot care for the child for 4 hours or more, they must first offer parenting time to the other parent before getting other care (in school time is not included in this). Also our order specifies that parenting time is between the biological parents.

Really spelling things out like holidays, vacations, out of state notifications, future cell phone plans, orthodontics (mine says split cost whether needed or cosmetic, although our dc's is needed), passports, schooling, child contact with parents, all the things, has been useful for us.

I suggest googling the Florida parenting plan. It's very thorough and will give you ideas of what to put in yours.

NP here
Does it cover parties/time with friends? If your kid's friend has a sleep over party from 6 pm-9 am and you are fine with your kid attending (and obviously you would not be there) can your ex contest this?

PP here. We have not had this issue raised, but based on my reading of our plan-Yes, I believe the other parent could. Ours specifies that parenting time applies only to the biological parents. On one hand, it may let ex prevent dc from a sleepover that I approve of. On the other hand, I could prevent dc from a sleepover that I do not approve of.

If its his time you should not be approving a sleep over.

If it's in the agreement that parenting time is for biological parents, then yes you get offered parenting time first, before a child would spend extended time away from the biological parents.

What happens when your child is 10 and really wants to go Lego day camp with his friends, or he’s 14 and he wants to go to a sleep-away lacrosse clinic with his team, and your ex decides he’s going to exercise his ROFR? Your provision is about you, not about what is best for your child.

The ex would still have this imput if you were still married-if you were married one parent could still say no to that. And good luck to an ex who keeps a 14 yo instead of letting them go to the clinic-I'm sure child would be super pleasant and fun in that situation LOL.

If I go on a business trip on my parenting time, I offer ex the time first, before arranging care. Why shouldn't ex get parenting time with his own dc before a grandparent or friend? That is what rofr ensures.

It's in the child's best interest to be with one of their own parents. That's why that provision is there.

The clause also means that the other parent

the point of divorcing is so that you minimize the amount of agreements and contact you have to make. ROFR means that you potentially have to negotiate with your ex every time you want to leave the kid for three hours. this may make sense for an infant but not an older child. and there can be unintended consequences like your ex flaking on an agreement to take the kids or blocking a sleepover with cousins.

barring some specific concerns (like not trusting a grandparent babysitting or thinking your ex will just pawn an infant off on a nanny) the best parenting agreement will be limited to the *actual* concerns you have, rather than being overly prescriptive. there are some theoretical issues you do want to cover because they are so important, like relocation. but you don’t want to try to dictate every tiny thing.

Actually, you should try to spell it out clearly. That leaves less room for conflict.

You don't 'negotiate' with rofr. You offer the time and they accept it or not. No reason to say why you are offering time, just that you are. It's not complicated.

So, you just say "Do you want Larla from 2 to 6 p.m. on Saturday?" and not "Larla was invited to Zoe's birthday party. She really wants to go to. The party is at X place. Can she go?"

Because the former seems unfair to Larla, and potentially to the other parent who is being set up to disappoint their kid.

I mean, the most obvious and simple solution to this if you think the other parent would stop them from going, would be to stay at the party for 5 or 10 minutes or show up 5 or 10 minutes early. Then she's not away from you for over 4 hours. That's completely legal.

Until there's a 5 hour party.

Have 5 hr drop off parties been a significant factor in your parenting journey?