Which selective liberal arts schools are really difficult/cutthroat once you are in?

[Anonymous]

Intensity and workload will be largely determined by the major. Engineering is brutal. Physics and Chemistry are tough. Math is tough especially if theoretical math doesn't "click." Computer science can be a lot of work, especially within an engineering school. My sense is that the social sciences and humanities are less work, but that depends on the school and the grades the student wants to earn. Also does the student prefer reading or doing problem sets?

[Anonymous]

Despite being in Southern California, none of the Claremont Colleges would be laid back in terms of the competitive academic environment and intensity. Students wake up at 5 am to study and regularly pull all nighters. The student athletes I knew didn't have a social life outside of their teammates. A decade ago, maybe Pitzer was more laid back but not anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really haven’t heard of any “cutthroat” liberal arts schools. Certainly some are considered very academically rigorous but I feel like that is not competition between the students but between the class itself and the student. I’ve looked at a lot of SLACs and pretty much all of them specifically talk about this.

But that said, there are some SLACs that are considered grind schools. Swarthmore would be one…just discussed on another thread.

Middlebury has had 2 student deaths (presumably suicide) just this fall...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't go to Emory or Davidson

100% correct--although Emory University is not an LAC. (Avoid the top 25 or so National Universities as well as majors like engineering, business, accounting, economics, and several others at National Universities.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have a junior with adhd/ learning difference with similar profile.currently at a very good private that is not a pressure cooker but not easy academically . Our child is truly rising to the occasion. Also needs a little time to process information. Are there northeast lacs that are good but not pressure cookers and have curriculum that is not overwhelming. Went to a school that changes lives which was academically challenging and far more work than classmates at a particular ivy.

Would love to hear what school is a good fit for your ADHD student. I have a 2E student who scores very high on tests but underperforms in classes. Hoping to guide DC in the right diretion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have a junior with adhd/ learning difference with similar profile.currently at a very good private that is not a pressure cooker but not easy academically . Our child is truly rising to the occasion. Also needs a little time to process information. Are there northeast lacs that are good but not pressure cookers and have curriculum that is not overwhelming. Went to a school that changes lives which was academically challenging and far more work than classmates at a particular ivy.

Connecticut College (the SLAC not the University of Connecticut)

[Anonymous]

Bucknell or Gettysburg if he likes to throw DOWN. Bonus for Bucknell is it has engineering. I think Lafayette and Union do too - also great party schools that presumably aren't overly brutal academically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like an odd question but my son has ADHD and works non stop. He will likely be recruited and get a little boost as a very good athlete (which takes up lots of studying time in HS and college).

He wants a small liberal arts school (Hamilton, Lafayette, Kenyon) type school. I worry for him because while he has good grades (SAT unknown) he works constantly and it's only high school.
I know his many AP classes are about as tough as college classes in a lot of cases but I really worry that he will be overwhelmed in college.

I'm not looking for some college that hands out As at all. Just trying to avoid anywhere that is cutthroat. A friend told me about a niece who dropped out of a SLAC after 2 months because it was just too tough.

That really got me thinking that I don't want to overwhelm him but I still want him to have the experience he wants at a good school where he can balance athletics (likely D3), studying and life.

Bates is one he's looking at but I'm reading it's pretty difficult (hard to judge with student reviews). My son just needs more time to learn than most and athletics make that tough. And no - he refuses to give that up at this point and it should help with admissions so I'm tabling that discussion. Sports will go if academics become too tough.

Any suggestions for schools to look at or stay away from?

You’re asking the wrong question. He needs some thing that is NOT the utmost challenging. So if he wants to traditionally hard major, for example, step down in the tier of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like an odd question but my son has ADHD and works non stop. He will likely be recruited and get a little boost as a very good athlete (which takes up lots of studying time in HS and college).

He wants a small liberal arts school (Hamilton, Lafayette, Kenyon) type school. I worry for him because while he has good grades (SAT unknown) he works constantly and it's only high school.
I know his many AP classes are about as tough as college classes in a lot of cases but I really worry that he will be overwhelmed in college.

I'm not looking for some college that hands out As at all. Just trying to avoid anywhere that is cutthroat. A friend told me about a niece who dropped out of a SLAC after 2 months because it was just too tough.

That really got me thinking that I don't want to overwhelm him but I still want him to have the experience he wants at a good school where he can balance athletics (likely D3), studying and life.

Bates is one he's looking at but I'm reading it's pretty difficult (hard to judge with student reviews). My son just needs more time to learn than most and athletics make that tough. And no - he refuses to give that up at this point and it should help with admissions so I'm tabling that discussion. Sports will go if academics become too tough.

Any suggestions for schools to look at or stay away from?

You’re asking the wrong question. He needs some thing that is NOT the utmost challenging. So if he wants to traditionally hard major, for example, step down in the tier of school.

^ level of challenge has nothing to do with being “cutthroat”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a junior with adhd/ learning difference with similar profile.currently at a very good private that is not a pressure cooker but not easy academically . Our child is truly rising to the occasion. Also needs a little time to process information. Are there northeast lacs that are good but not pressure cookers and have curriculum that is not overwhelming. Went to a school that changes lives which was academically challenging and far more work than classmates at a particular ivy.

Would love to hear what school is a good fit for your ADHD student. I have a 2E student who scores very high on tests but underperforms in classes. Hoping to guide DC in the right diretion.

Sounds like my son. He has excelled at St. Joseph’s University aka St. Joe’s in Philly. I think it helped a lot that he was in the top % there because initially he could focus more on learning how to “adult.” He has had an advisor from freshman year on, and the community is strong and welcoming.

[Anonymous]

Kenyon not cutthroat. DS even talking about taking an extra class just out of intellectual curiosity! It's actually nice if you can enjoy your courses without it being a major uphill battle to get an A.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC at Bates as an athlete. It’s a wonderful community. Not cutthroat at all. DC has a non athlete roommate and gets along great. And has many friends from the team. Classmates are great. After being in DC, was surprised at how cooperative kids were. They all want to do well, but not at the expense of others.

Since the OP mentioned Bates, I'll say I have a kid there who is NOT an athlete and he loves it and works hard. The community is just awesome. You need some serious stats for admission, but Bates has been TO for decades. It's a really great place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really haven’t heard of any “cutthroat” liberal arts schools. Certainly some are considered very academically rigorous but I feel like that is not competition between the students but between the class itself and the student. I’ve looked at a lot of SLACs and pretty much all of them specifically talk about this.

But that said, there are some SLACs that are considered grind schools. Swarthmore would be one…just discussed on another thread.

OP here. Yes - the thread on Swarthmore inspired me to post but I've been thinking about this a lot recently.

Swarthmore was always a bit too tough to get into so it won't be on our list but I'm wondering if schools that are even a little easier to get into are so rigorous that kids (especially athletes with less time) are often overwhelmed? College needs to be more than just studying all day and night.

So I guess I'm asking - what are the other "grind schools" like Swarthmore that kids got into but felt like it was just too much work?


Swarthmore for sure. Also Williams and Amherst and Carleton.

But Bates should be alright.

[Anonymous]

I have a 2E male at Oberlin. Definitely not cut throat. But definitely challenging him. Their President is very fitness orient and works out with and supports the sports teams. Then again, she also shut down Oberlin’s participation in sports (traveling to other schools, not conditioning and practice) during 2020-2021 to prioritize in person classes and low COVID rates. Except for one pissed off dad on the parents page, no one really seemed to care. They are there to learn, and happen to be continuing a sport. They aren’t there to play a sport, and happen to need to attend class.

My very non-sporty kid has athlete friends and says all the athletes are really nice except men’s LAX. Do with that what you will. And that athletes don’t really segregate the way they do at other LACs.

For a kid who wants a low key sports environment and to have a good time continuing on with their sport w/some real flexibility to sometimes place academics over sports it’s could be great. For a kid who thrives in a really competitive environment and wants to win at all costs, not so much.

Two interesting things from an ADHD perspective. One, my kid entered in Fall 2020 and could not update neuropsych testing (because lockdowns), so they took his 504. And never followed up to get more documentation. He’s just been able to get informal accommodations as needed. He only needs extended time in advanced math. So when he took multivariable, he talked to the professor and was told to take the time he needed. If he has two big deadlines coming due at once, he talks to a professor, and gets a short extension on one. He has never had a problem in any department making with making reasonable requests, in advance and getting what he needs. It’s a very take charge of your own education/ we are here to help you succeed mentality. After years of battling the school system over every line of his 504, it’s refreshing. They treat him like an adult as long as he doesn’t take advantage of that. And there have been zero accommodation crises.

Now, someone on here will scream unfair to other kids! And soft academically! But the point of Oberlin is that education is collaborative, not competitive, and ideally all kids succeed. And I assume (and hope) that other kids are getting whatever accommodations they need to succeed.

The second thing is his department has adopted “contract grading” for many classes. I’m not sure where the college as a whole is on contract grading. He’s far enough along in his education that I haven’t gotten into the weeds on this. But, the gist seems to be that he has to demonstrate mastery, but works with the professor to decide how to best demonstrate mastery— and when. It’s very student-professor collaborative and basically, whatever the opposite of high stakes testing is. I know he really likes it, is really engaged in his classes, and has a lot of autonomy. And calls the professors in his department by their first name. So when I ask how classes are going, I don’t get, “I’m making a B”. I get “I met with Anna this week and she said I’m on track with my contract”. He can’t give me a grade. And it’s nice to see him focused on the work itself and not the grade.

Here’s some information on contract grading: https://ascode.osu.edu/contract-grading-schemes

Overall, it’s been great for my 2e kid. His grades slipped a bit the first semester he had contract graded classes. (A-/B+ became Bs and one B-). I suspect he thought doing the bare minimum on a contract was enough and his professors did not agree. But then his grades bounced back and he has started really using the contracts to do things he is interested in. And I love his focus on substantive feedback over letter grades.

Hope this helps OP. I’m not sure if Oberlin is what you are looking for. But, it could be.

[Anonymous]

As a slight aside, I wonder if graduating with a super high gpa from a slightly easier SLAC is better than a more middling gpa from a more selective school. For example, would employers/grad schools prefer a 4.0 out of Lafayette vs a 3.3 out of Hamilton? Does anyone outside the confines of this chatboard really perceive a quality distinction between those two degrees? 9/10 people haven't heard of either school.