Double up on Math at JR?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just FYI, Deal has said that after this school year, they will no longer be allowing any students to double up on math, per DCPS policy. So that policy may well extend to JR too, even if they allowed doubling up in the past.

Thanks. So the only option if my kid wants to go beyond pre-calc in high school is to take summer math at some point?

I am not trying to complicate your decision...but again, I don't think they care in HS if you decide to take two "math electives" at the same time. Pre-Calc, Stat, Calc AB and Calc BC are considered electives and not required Math.

If you want to follow the progression and not double up Pre Calc and Calc, then yes you should plan to take say Geometry over the Summer. DCPS has an approved vendor list (many, maybe all virtual), but you want to make sure you get sign-off from the school / DCPS prior to registering.

What counselor or admin is allowing kids to take PreCalc and AP Calc at the same time? That makes absolutely no sense. And your elective logic makes no sense. Spanish III and Spanish IV are both electives. It doesn’t mean you take them at the same time. There are sequences to courses.

This is NOT the same as taking Geometry and Algebra II the same year. That happens pretty frequently in high schools.

I am not employing any elective "logic". Simply stating that since these classes are electives, there are often no institutional restrictions to taking them together. I bet a kid could in fact take Spanish III and Spanish IV at the same time if that is what they wanted to do. Just so happens it occurs more frequently in Math.

FWIW, the kids I know that double up on Precalc anc Calc are advanced in Math. Not sure why they did not accelerate earlier (and some were transfers). Many had already had exposure to PreCalc, but not in a way that gave them DCPS credit. Honors Precalc is also not a heavy lift (the new AP Precalc may be more?). These kids wanted to be done with Calc by Junior year (they all got a 4 or 5 on the AP Calc BC test) and then take AP Stats Senior year (which is a much easier class).

Again, I am not a proponent of this progression, but simply conveying what I know some kids have done historically.

Interesting. In many districts (and private schools) the new AP precalc curriculum is a fraction of the material of their traditional precalc class. Many are not offering AP precalc for this reason.

By it's very nature precalc is an ambiguous class. At some schools it's pretty simple and almost all algebra 2. At others it overlaps most of the material of AP calc AB.

My one kid is now in private (other two are in DCPS) and went from his school's honors pre-calc class to his school's AP Calc AB class and has since realized that fall of AB will be entirely review of what he learned last year in. We're 4 weeks in and that's definitely the case. He probably should have done BC but that class is known to be a beast (1.5 hours of homework a night, maybe 2 As given to a class of 20 kids). He elected to focus on humanities instead because he was pretty beaten up by honors pre-calc (also a beast---a handful of As (maybe 4?) out of 30 kids)

I’m the poster just above you, and I assume the premise is that AP pre-calc is setting kids up to move straight into AP Calc BC or college-level calculus (for seniors taking AP pre-calc). So it’s less review and more…calc.

Quite the opposite. AP Precalc is for humanities and marketing majors who will never take an class at AP calc AB or higher.

"AP" Precalc is worthless to anyone who takes Calc AB or college Calc 1, because they won't get college credit for Precalc. But it's useful for people who need a math credit and will not take non-Marketing calculus.

I mean…I have a kid in it, who is an accelerated math kid and will take BC next year. And I had a kid take honors. They have compared notes, and AP is more accelerated.

But I’m sure it also serves the purpose you note. Both things can be true!

That's wild. In most districts and private schools AP precalc is significant (like 50%) less rigorous than their long-standing standard pre-calc curriculum. I have no idea what DCPS pre-calc was teaching if it was less than the AP pre-calc exam. DCPS is such a joke.

DCPS doesn’t have a long standing pre Calc curriculum. They barely have a curriculum at all. I taught pre Calc in DCPS and one summer they said central office was coming up with a curriculum. The curriculum they developed was just the chapters of the textbook. Like word for word the title of each unit was just a textbook chapter. Total nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC attempted to double up on math at JR and was denied, counselor cited DCPS policy is one math class only.

What year was your daughter in when this happened? This seems so unfair to me if it’s Geometry and Algebra 2 for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI, Deal has said that after this school year, they will no longer be allowing any students to double up on math, per DCPS policy. So that policy may well extend to JR too, even if they allowed doubling up in the past.

Thanks. So the only option if my kid wants to go beyond pre-calc in high school is to take summer math at some point?

I am not trying to complicate your decision...but again, I don't think they care in HS if you decide to take two "math electives" at the same time. Pre-Calc, Stat, Calc AB and Calc BC are considered electives and not required Math.

If you want to follow the progression and not double up Pre Calc and Calc, then yes you should plan to take say Geometry over the Summer. DCPS has an approved vendor list (many, maybe all virtual), but you want to make sure you get sign-off from the school / DCPS prior to registering.

What counselor or admin is allowing kids to take PreCalc and AP Calc at the same time? That makes absolutely no sense. And your elective logic makes no sense. Spanish III and Spanish IV are both electives. It doesn’t mean you take them at the same time. There are sequences to courses.

This is NOT the same as taking Geometry and Algebra II the same year. That happens pretty frequently in high schools.

I am not employing any elective "logic". Simply stating that since these classes are electives, there are often no institutional restrictions to taking them together. I bet a kid could in fact take Spanish III and Spanish IV at the same time if that is what they wanted to do. Just so happens it occurs more frequently in Math.

FWIW, the kids I know that double up on Precalc anc Calc are advanced in Math. Not sure why they did not accelerate earlier (and some were transfers). Many had already had exposure to PreCalc, but not in a way that gave them DCPS credit. Honors Precalc is also not a heavy lift (the new AP Precalc may be more?). These kids wanted to be done with Calc by Junior year (they all got a 4 or 5 on the AP Calc BC test) and then take AP Stats Senior year (which is a much easier class).

Again, I am not a proponent of this progression, but simply conveying what I know some kids have done historically.

Interesting. In many districts (and private schools) the new AP precalc curriculum is a fraction of the material of their traditional precalc class. Many are not offering AP precalc for this reason.

By it's very nature precalc is an ambiguous class. At some schools it's pretty simple and almost all algebra 2. At others it overlaps most of the material of AP calc AB.

My one kid is now in private (other two are in DCPS) and went from his school's honors pre-calc class to his school's AP Calc AB class and has since realized that fall of AB will be entirely review of what he learned last year in. We're 4 weeks in and that's definitely the case. He probably should have done BC but that class is known to be a beast (1.5 hours of homework a night, maybe 2 As given to a class of 20 kids). He elected to focus on humanities instead because he was pretty beaten up by honors pre-calc (also a beast---a handful of As (maybe 4?) out of 30 kids)

I’m the poster just above you, and I assume the premise is that AP pre-calc is setting kids up to move straight into AP Calc BC or college-level calculus (for seniors taking AP pre-calc). So it’s less review and more…calc.

Quite the opposite. AP Precalc is for humanities and marketing majors who will never take an class at AP calc AB or higher.

"AP" Precalc is worthless to anyone who takes Calc AB or college Calc 1, because they won't get college credit for Precalc. But it's useful for people who need a math credit and will not take non-Marketing calculus.

I mean…I have a kid in it, who is an accelerated math kid and will take BC next year. And I had a kid take honors. They have compared notes, and AP is more accelerated.

But I’m sure it also serves the purpose you note. Both things can be true!

That's wild. In most districts and private schools AP precalc is significant (like 50%) less rigorous than their long-standing standard pre-calc curriculum. I have no idea what DCPS pre-calc was teaching if it was less than the AP pre-calc exam. DCPS is such a joke.

Folks, this is the first year AP Precalc has been offered. It is literally 1 month into its existence. Not sure how anyone is claiming how rigorous or not AP Precalc may be as there is no historical information on which to make such a judgment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC attempted to double up on math at JR and was denied, counselor cited DCPS policy is one math class only.

What year was your daughter in when this happened? This seems so unfair to me if it’s Geometry and Algebra 2 for example.

It’s not a DCPS policy. JR is not being truthful and trying to blame central office. Kids double up in HS frequently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI, Deal has said that after this school year, they will no longer be allowing any students to double up on math, per DCPS policy. So that policy may well extend to JR too, even if they allowed doubling up in the past.

Thanks. So the only option if my kid wants to go beyond pre-calc in high school is to take summer math at some point?

I am not trying to complicate your decision...but again, I don't think they care in HS if you decide to take two "math electives" at the same time. Pre-Calc, Stat, Calc AB and Calc BC are considered electives and not required Math.

If you want to follow the progression and not double up Pre Calc and Calc, then yes you should plan to take say Geometry over the Summer. DCPS has an approved vendor list (many, maybe all virtual), but you want to make sure you get sign-off from the school / DCPS prior to registering.

What counselor or admin is allowing kids to take PreCalc and AP Calc at the same time? That makes absolutely no sense. And your elective logic makes no sense. Spanish III and Spanish IV are both electives. It doesn’t mean you take them at the same time. There are sequences to courses.

This is NOT the same as taking Geometry and Algebra II the same year. That happens pretty frequently in high schools.

I am not employing any elective "logic". Simply stating that since these classes are electives, there are often no institutional restrictions to taking them together. I bet a kid could in fact take Spanish III and Spanish IV at the same time if that is what they wanted to do. Just so happens it occurs more frequently in Math.

FWIW, the kids I know that double up on Precalc anc Calc are advanced in Math. Not sure why they did not accelerate earlier (and some were transfers). Many had already had exposure to PreCalc, but not in a way that gave them DCPS credit. Honors Precalc is also not a heavy lift (the new AP Precalc may be more?). These kids wanted to be done with Calc by Junior year (they all got a 4 or 5 on the AP Calc BC test) and then take AP Stats Senior year (which is a much easier class).

Again, I am not a proponent of this progression, but simply conveying what I know some kids have done historically.

Interesting. In many districts (and private schools) the new AP precalc curriculum is a fraction of the material of their traditional precalc class. Many are not offering AP precalc for this reason.

By it's very nature precalc is an ambiguous class. At some schools it's pretty simple and almost all algebra 2. At others it overlaps most of the material of AP calc AB.

My one kid is now in private (other two are in DCPS) and went from his school's honors pre-calc class to his school's AP Calc AB class and has since realized that fall of AB will be entirely review of what he learned last year in. We're 4 weeks in and that's definitely the case. He probably should have done BC but that class is known to be a beast (1.5 hours of homework a night, maybe 2 As given to a class of 20 kids). He elected to focus on humanities instead because he was pretty beaten up by honors pre-calc (also a beast---a handful of As (maybe 4?) out of 30 kids)

I’m the poster just above you, and I assume the premise is that AP pre-calc is setting kids up to move straight into AP Calc BC or college-level calculus (for seniors taking AP pre-calc). So it’s less review and more…calc.

Quite the opposite. AP Precalc is for humanities and marketing majors who will never take an class at AP calc AB or higher.

"AP" Precalc is worthless to anyone who takes Calc AB or college Calc 1, because they won't get college credit for Precalc. But it's useful for people who need a math credit and will not take non-Marketing calculus.

I mean…I have a kid in it, who is an accelerated math kid and will take BC next year. And I had a kid take honors. They have compared notes, and AP is more accelerated.

But I’m sure it also serves the purpose you note. Both things can be true!

That's wild. In most districts and private schools AP precalc is significant (like 50%) less rigorous than their long-standing standard pre-calc curriculum. I have no idea what DCPS pre-calc was teaching if it was less than the AP pre-calc exam. DCPS is such a joke.

Folks, this is the first year AP Precalc has been offered. It is literally 1 month into its existence. Not sure how anyone is claiming how rigorous or not AP Precalc may be as there is no historical information on which to make such a judgment.

Administrators have seen the AP precalc standards. They are super low and don't cover many districts' on-level pre-calc class, let alone honors. That is why most publics and every private I know has not made the switch to AP pre-calc. They don't want to significantly dumb down their current pre-calc class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI, Deal has said that after this school year, they will no longer be allowing any students to double up on math, per DCPS policy. So that policy may well extend to JR too, even if they allowed doubling up in the past.

Thanks. So the only option if my kid wants to go beyond pre-calc in high school is to take summer math at some point?

I am not trying to complicate your decision...but again, I don't think they care in HS if you decide to take two "math electives" at the same time. Pre-Calc, Stat, Calc AB and Calc BC are considered electives and not required Math.

If you want to follow the progression and not double up Pre Calc and Calc, then yes you should plan to take say Geometry over the Summer. DCPS has an approved vendor list (many, maybe all virtual), but you want to make sure you get sign-off from the school / DCPS prior to registering.

What counselor or admin is allowing kids to take PreCalc and AP Calc at the same time? That makes absolutely no sense. And your elective logic makes no sense. Spanish III and Spanish IV are both electives. It doesn’t mean you take them at the same time. There are sequences to courses.

This is NOT the same as taking Geometry and Algebra II the same year. That happens pretty frequently in high schools.

I am not employing any elective "logic". Simply stating that since these classes are electives, there are often no institutional restrictions to taking them together. I bet a kid could in fact take Spanish III and Spanish IV at the same time if that is what they wanted to do. Just so happens it occurs more frequently in Math.

FWIW, the kids I know that double up on Precalc anc Calc are advanced in Math. Not sure why they did not accelerate earlier (and some were transfers). Many had already had exposure to PreCalc, but not in a way that gave them DCPS credit. Honors Precalc is also not a heavy lift (the new AP Precalc may be more?). These kids wanted to be done with Calc by Junior year (they all got a 4 or 5 on the AP Calc BC test) and then take AP Stats Senior year (which is a much easier class).

Again, I am not a proponent of this progression, but simply conveying what I know some kids have done historically.

Interesting. In many districts (and private schools) the new AP precalc curriculum is a fraction of the material of their traditional precalc class. Many are not offering AP precalc for this reason.

By it's very nature precalc is an ambiguous class. At some schools it's pretty simple and almost all algebra 2. At others it overlaps most of the material of AP calc AB.

My one kid is now in private (other two are in DCPS) and went from his school's honors pre-calc class to his school's AP Calc AB class and has since realized that fall of AB will be entirely review of what he learned last year in. We're 4 weeks in and that's definitely the case. He probably should have done BC but that class is known to be a beast (1.5 hours of homework a night, maybe 2 As given to a class of 20 kids). He elected to focus on humanities instead because he was pretty beaten up by honors pre-calc (also a beast---a handful of As (maybe 4?) out of 30 kids)

I’m the poster just above you, and I assume the premise is that AP pre-calc is setting kids up to move straight into AP Calc BC or college-level calculus (for seniors taking AP pre-calc). So it’s less review and more…calc.

Quite the opposite. AP Precalc is for humanities and marketing majors who will never take an class at AP calc AB or higher.

"AP" Precalc is worthless to anyone who takes Calc AB or college Calc 1, because they won't get college credit for Precalc. But it's useful for people who need a math credit and will not take non-Marketing calculus.

I mean…I have a kid in it, who is an accelerated math kid and will take BC next year. And I had a kid take honors. They have compared notes, and AP is more accelerated.

But I’m sure it also serves the purpose you note. Both things can be true!

That's wild. In most districts and private schools AP precalc is significant (like 50%) less rigorous than their long-standing standard pre-calc curriculum. I have no idea what DCPS pre-calc was teaching if it was less than the AP pre-calc exam. DCPS is such a joke.

Folks, this is the first year AP Precalc has been offered. It is literally 1 month into its existence. Not sure how anyone is claiming how rigorous or not AP Precalc may be as there is no historical information on which to make such a judgment.

Administrators have seen the AP precalc standards. They are super low and don't cover many districts' on-level pre-calc class, let alone honors. That is why most publics and every private I know has not made the switch to AP pre-calc. They don't want to significantly dumb down their current pre-calc class.

I can't weigh in on what supposedly other schools think. All I know is that probably 90% of my kid's AP PreCalc class will take AP Calc BC next year. Certainly at JR, almost nobody taking grade level Precalc is signing up for any calculus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI, Deal has said that after this school year, they will no longer be allowing any students to double up on math, per DCPS policy. So that policy may well extend to JR too, even if they allowed doubling up in the past.

Thanks. So the only option if my kid wants to go beyond pre-calc in high school is to take summer math at some point?

I am not trying to complicate your decision...but again, I don't think they care in HS if you decide to take two "math electives" at the same time. Pre-Calc, Stat, Calc AB and Calc BC are considered electives and not required Math.

If you want to follow the progression and not double up Pre Calc and Calc, then yes you should plan to take say Geometry over the Summer. DCPS has an approved vendor list (many, maybe all virtual), but you want to make sure you get sign-off from the school / DCPS prior to registering.

What counselor or admin is allowing kids to take PreCalc and AP Calc at the same time? That makes absolutely no sense. And your elective logic makes no sense. Spanish III and Spanish IV are both electives. It doesn’t mean you take them at the same time. There are sequences to courses.

This is NOT the same as taking Geometry and Algebra II the same year. That happens pretty frequently in high schools.

I am not employing any elective "logic". Simply stating that since these classes are electives, there are often no institutional restrictions to taking them together. I bet a kid could in fact take Spanish III and Spanish IV at the same time if that is what they wanted to do. Just so happens it occurs more frequently in Math.

FWIW, the kids I know that double up on Precalc anc Calc are advanced in Math. Not sure why they did not accelerate earlier (and some were transfers). Many had already had exposure to PreCalc, but not in a way that gave them DCPS credit. Honors Precalc is also not a heavy lift (the new AP Precalc may be more?). These kids wanted to be done with Calc by Junior year (they all got a 4 or 5 on the AP Calc BC test) and then take AP Stats Senior year (which is a much easier class).

Again, I am not a proponent of this progression, but simply conveying what I know some kids have done historically.

Interesting. In many districts (and private schools) the new AP precalc curriculum is a fraction of the material of their traditional precalc class. Many are not offering AP precalc for this reason.

By it's very nature precalc is an ambiguous class. At some schools it's pretty simple and almost all algebra 2. At others it overlaps most of the material of AP calc AB.

My one kid is now in private (other two are in DCPS) and went from his school's honors pre-calc class to his school's AP Calc AB class and has since realized that fall of AB will be entirely review of what he learned last year in. We're 4 weeks in and that's definitely the case. He probably should have done BC but that class is known to be a beast (1.5 hours of homework a night, maybe 2 As given to a class of 20 kids). He elected to focus on humanities instead because he was pretty beaten up by honors pre-calc (also a beast---a handful of As (maybe 4?) out of 30 kids)

I’m the poster just above you, and I assume the premise is that AP pre-calc is setting kids up to move straight into AP Calc BC or college-level calculus (for seniors taking AP pre-calc). So it’s less review and more…calc.

Quite the opposite. AP Precalc is for humanities and marketing majors who will never take an class at AP calc AB or higher.

"AP" Precalc is worthless to anyone who takes Calc AB or college Calc 1, because they won't get college credit for Precalc. But it's useful for people who need a math credit and will not take non-Marketing calculus.

I mean…I have a kid in it, who is an accelerated math kid and will take BC next year. And I had a kid take honors. They have compared notes, and AP is more accelerated.

But I’m sure it also serves the purpose you note. Both things can be true!

That's wild. In most districts and private schools AP precalc is significant (like 50%) less rigorous than their long-standing standard pre-calc curriculum. I have no idea what DCPS pre-calc was teaching if it was less than the AP pre-calc exam. DCPS is such a joke.

Folks, this is the first year AP Precalc has been offered. It is literally 1 month into its existence. Not sure how anyone is claiming how rigorous or not AP Precalc may be as there is no historical information on which to make such a judgment.

Administrators have seen the AP precalc standards. They are super low and don't cover many districts' on-level pre-calc class, let alone honors. That is why most publics and every private I know has not made the switch to AP pre-calc. They don't want to significantly dumb down their current pre-calc class.

I can't weigh in on what supposedly other schools think. All I know is that probably 90% of my kid's AP PreCalc class will take AP Calc BC next year. Certainly at JR, almost nobody taking grade level Precalc is signing up for any calculus.

I agree, re: composition of the AP pre-calc class at JR. I also know that my kid who took honors pre-calc before AP was offered felt very well-prepared for Calc AB. So if the honors curriculum is as terrible as everyone says, it at least seems to have worked for my kid (who had a terrible algebra 2 teacher, so it’s not like they got the prep there and didn’t need pre-calc).

I’m not sure we know enough to know whether those taking honors pre-calc won’t take Calc. But it’s certainly plausible that that’s the way it will go.

[Anonymous]

OK, this is informative: https://www.applerouth.com/blog/2023/07/24/everything-high-schoolers-need-to-know-about-ap-precalculus/

Particularly this, re: pre-calc curriculum (or lack thereof):

<quote>Precalculus is one of those classes that is a little bit nebulous. It is often, but not always, jointly a trigonometry course. It is sometimes jointly a statistics course. Some precalculus classes focus on reinforcing and expanding on students’ algebra skills. Some dive into limits and start teaching early calculus concepts. Some give students a chance to explore advanced topics like series, matrices, and combinatorics.

As a result, two students who both took precalculus their senior year at their respective high schools might be very differently prepared for a calculus class their first year at college. One of the goals of AP Precalculus is an attempt at standardization so that colleges know that, yes, a student who has done well in this class is ready for calculus.</quote>

It also says it’s not designed to be “advanced,” but it also seems plausible that given the lack of standardization among pre-calc courses that it is advanced relative to a given school’s non-AP class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI, Deal has said that after this school year, they will no longer be allowing any students to double up on math, per DCPS policy. So that policy may well extend to JR too, even if they allowed doubling up in the past.

Thanks. So the only option if my kid wants to go beyond pre-calc in high school is to take summer math at some point?

I am not trying to complicate your decision...but again, I don't think they care in HS if you decide to take two "math electives" at the same time. Pre-Calc, Stat, Calc AB and Calc BC are considered electives and not required Math.

If you want to follow the progression and not double up Pre Calc and Calc, then yes you should plan to take say Geometry over the Summer. DCPS has an approved vendor list (many, maybe all virtual), but you want to make sure you get sign-off from the school / DCPS prior to registering.

What counselor or admin is allowing kids to take PreCalc and AP Calc at the same time? That makes absolutely no sense. And your elective logic makes no sense. Spanish III and Spanish IV are both electives. It doesn’t mean you take them at the same time. There are sequences to courses.

This is NOT the same as taking Geometry and Algebra II the same year. That happens pretty frequently in high schools.

I am not employing any elective "logic". Simply stating that since these classes are electives, there are often no institutional restrictions to taking them together. I bet a kid could in fact take Spanish III and Spanish IV at the same time if that is what they wanted to do. Just so happens it occurs more frequently in Math.

FWIW, the kids I know that double up on Precalc anc Calc are advanced in Math. Not sure why they did not accelerate earlier (and some were transfers). Many had already had exposure to PreCalc, but not in a way that gave them DCPS credit. Honors Precalc is also not a heavy lift (the new AP Precalc may be more?). These kids wanted to be done with Calc by Junior year (they all got a 4 or 5 on the AP Calc BC test) and then take AP Stats Senior year (which is a much easier class).

Again, I am not a proponent of this progression, but simply conveying what I know some kids have done historically.

Interesting. In many districts (and private schools) the new AP precalc curriculum is a fraction of the material of their traditional precalc class. Many are not offering AP precalc for this reason.

By it's very nature precalc is an ambiguous class. At some schools it's pretty simple and almost all algebra 2. At others it overlaps most of the material of AP calc AB.

My one kid is now in private (other two are in DCPS) and went from his school's honors pre-calc class to his school's AP Calc AB class and has since realized that fall of AB will be entirely review of what he learned last year in. We're 4 weeks in and that's definitely the case. He probably should have done BC but that class is known to be a beast (1.5 hours of homework a night, maybe 2 As given to a class of 20 kids). He elected to focus on humanities instead because he was pretty beaten up by honors pre-calc (also a beast---a handful of As (maybe 4?) out of 30 kids)

I’m the poster just above you, and I assume the premise is that AP pre-calc is setting kids up to move straight into AP Calc BC or college-level calculus (for seniors taking AP pre-calc). So it’s less review and more…calc.

Quite the opposite. AP Precalc is for humanities and marketing majors who will never take an class at AP calc AB or higher.

"AP" Precalc is worthless to anyone who takes Calc AB or college Calc 1, because they won't get college credit for Precalc. But it's useful for people who need a math credit and will not take non-Marketing calculus.

I mean…I have a kid in it, who is an accelerated math kid and will take BC next year. And I had a kid take honors. They have compared notes, and AP is more accelerated.

But I’m sure it also serves the purpose you note. Both things can be true!

That's wild. In most districts and private schools AP precalc is significant (like 50%) less rigorous than their long-standing standard pre-calc curriculum. I have no idea what DCPS pre-calc was teaching if it was less than the AP pre-calc exam. DCPS is such a joke.

Folks, this is the first year AP Precalc has been offered. It is literally 1 month into its existence. Not sure how anyone is claiming how rigorous or not AP Precalc may be as there is no historical information on which to make such a judgment.

Administrators have seen the AP precalc standards. They are super low and don't cover many districts' on-level pre-calc class, let alone honors. That is why most publics and every private I know has not made the switch to AP pre-calc. They don't want to significantly dumb down their current pre-calc class.

I can't weigh in on what supposedly other schools think. All I know is that probably 90% of my kid's AP PreCalc class will take AP Calc BC next year. Certainly at JR, almost nobody taking grade level Precalc is signing up for any calculus.

I agree, re: composition of the AP pre-calc class at JR. I also know that my kid who took honors pre-calc before AP was offered felt very well-prepared for Calc AB. So if the honors curriculum is as terrible as everyone says, it at least seems to have worked for my kid (who had a terrible algebra 2 teacher, so it’s not like they got the prep there and didn’t need pre-calc).

I’m not sure we know enough to know whether those taking honors pre-calc won’t take Calc. But it’s certainly plausible that that’s the way it will go.

My older kid who took honors PreCalc at JR also thought he was prepared for BC Calc...but he still didn't think PreCalc was a hard/challenging course. Maybe it was the pacing. I recall in my HS days in the late 1980s that PreCalc was a 1/2 year course, as was Algebra II and you took them junior year of HS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI, Deal has said that after this school year, they will no longer be allowing any students to double up on math, per DCPS policy. So that policy may well extend to JR too, even if they allowed doubling up in the past.

Thanks. So the only option if my kid wants to go beyond pre-calc in high school is to take summer math at some point?

I am not trying to complicate your decision...but again, I don't think they care in HS if you decide to take two "math electives" at the same time. Pre-Calc, Stat, Calc AB and Calc BC are considered electives and not required Math.

If you want to follow the progression and not double up Pre Calc and Calc, then yes you should plan to take say Geometry over the Summer. DCPS has an approved vendor list (many, maybe all virtual), but you want to make sure you get sign-off from the school / DCPS prior to registering.

What counselor or admin is allowing kids to take PreCalc and AP Calc at the same time? That makes absolutely no sense. And your elective logic makes no sense. Spanish III and Spanish IV are both electives. It doesn’t mean you take them at the same time. There are sequences to courses.

This is NOT the same as taking Geometry and Algebra II the same year. That happens pretty frequently in high schools.

I am not employing any elective "logic". Simply stating that since these classes are electives, there are often no institutional restrictions to taking them together. I bet a kid could in fact take Spanish III and Spanish IV at the same time if that is what they wanted to do. Just so happens it occurs more frequently in Math.

FWIW, the kids I know that double up on Precalc anc Calc are advanced in Math. Not sure why they did not accelerate earlier (and some were transfers). Many had already had exposure to PreCalc, but not in a way that gave them DCPS credit. Honors Precalc is also not a heavy lift (the new AP Precalc may be more?). These kids wanted to be done with Calc by Junior year (they all got a 4 or 5 on the AP Calc BC test) and then take AP Stats Senior year (which is a much easier class).

Again, I am not a proponent of this progression, but simply conveying what I know some kids have done historically.

Interesting. In many districts (and private schools) the new AP precalc curriculum is a fraction of the material of their traditional precalc class. Many are not offering AP precalc for this reason.

By it's very nature precalc is an ambiguous class. At some schools it's pretty simple and almost all algebra 2. At others it overlaps most of the material of AP calc AB.

My one kid is now in private (other two are in DCPS) and went from his school's honors pre-calc class to his school's AP Calc AB class and has since realized that fall of AB will be entirely review of what he learned last year in. We're 4 weeks in and that's definitely the case. He probably should have done BC but that class is known to be a beast (1.5 hours of homework a night, maybe 2 As given to a class of 20 kids). He elected to focus on humanities instead because he was pretty beaten up by honors pre-calc (also a beast---a handful of As (maybe 4?) out of 30 kids)

I’m the poster just above you, and I assume the premise is that AP pre-calc is setting kids up to move straight into AP Calc BC or college-level calculus (for seniors taking AP pre-calc). So it’s less review and more…calc.

Quite the opposite. AP Precalc is for humanities and marketing majors who will never take an class at AP calc AB or higher.

"AP" Precalc is worthless to anyone who takes Calc AB or college Calc 1, because they won't get college credit for Precalc. But it's useful for people who need a math credit and will not take non-Marketing calculus.

I mean…I have a kid in it, who is an accelerated math kid and will take BC next year. And I had a kid take honors. They have compared notes, and AP is more accelerated.

But I’m sure it also serves the purpose you note. Both things can be true!

That's wild. In most districts and private schools AP precalc is significant (like 50%) less rigorous than their long-standing standard pre-calc curriculum. I have no idea what DCPS pre-calc was teaching if it was less than the AP pre-calc exam. DCPS is such a joke.

Folks, this is the first year AP Precalc has been offered. It is literally 1 month into its existence. Not sure how anyone is claiming how rigorous or not AP Precalc may be as there is no historical information on which to make such a judgment.

Administrators have seen the AP precalc standards. They are super low and don't cover many districts' on-level pre-calc class, let alone honors. That is why most publics and every private I know has not made the switch to AP pre-calc. They don't want to significantly dumb down their current pre-calc class.

I can't weigh in on what supposedly other schools think. All I know is that probably 90% of my kid's AP PreCalc class will take AP Calc BC next year. Certainly at JR, almost nobody taking grade level Precalc is signing up for any calculus.

I agree, re: composition of the AP pre-calc class at JR. I also know that my kid who took honors pre-calc before AP was offered felt very well-prepared for Calc AB. So if the honors curriculum is as terrible as everyone says, it at least seems to have worked for my kid (who had a terrible algebra 2 teacher, so it’s not like they got the prep there and didn’t need pre-calc).

I’m not sure we know enough to know whether those taking honors pre-calc won’t take Calc. But it’s certainly plausible that that’s the way it will go.

My older kid who took honors PreCalc at JR also thought he was prepared for BC Calc...but he still didn't think PreCalc was a hard/challenging course. Maybe it was the pacing. I recall in my HS days in the late 1980s that PreCalc was a 1/2 year course, as was Algebra II and you took them junior year of HS.

PP here, and I agree—my kid didn’t find honors pre-calc hard, but they did learn and felt prepared for calc. My primary point was that the curriculum seemed appropriate, contra others’ assertions that it’s terrible, pointless, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone successfully had their kid double up on algebra 2 and geometry in 10th grade at JR? In terms of college admissions, is it better to top out at pre-calc in high school with As, or push further to AP calc with a B?

Ugh, I did this in high school a generation ago and it was no joy. But if it's the only way you can get to a calculus AP your senior year, at least it's an option.

ugh. i doubled up on trig and pre-calc freshman year so i could do differential equations senior year. I'm kind of staggered that we now expect kids to top-out at pre-calc?! wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone successfully had their kid double up on algebra 2 and geometry in 10th grade at JR? In terms of college admissions, is it better to top out at pre-calc in high school with As, or push further to AP calc with a B?

Ugh, I did this in high school a generation ago and it was no joy. But if it's the only way you can get to a calculus AP your senior year, at least it's an option.

ugh. i doubled up on trig and pre-calc freshman year so i could do differential equations senior year. I'm kind of staggered that we now expect kids to top-out at pre-calc?! wow.

I got out of the advanced math track after 9th grade expressly to avoid calc in HS and went to a top 25 school (and never took calc). I’m kind of staggered you don’t realize that there are lots of different people in the world with lots of different experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone successfully had their kid double up on algebra 2 and geometry in 10th grade at JR? In terms of college admissions, is it better to top out at pre-calc in high school with As, or push further to AP calc with a B?

Ugh, I did this in high school a generation ago and it was no joy. But if it's the only way you can get to a calculus AP your senior year, at least it's an option.

ugh. i doubled up on trig and pre-calc freshman year so i could do differential equations senior year. I'm kind of staggered that we now expect kids to top-out at pre-calc?! wow.

Not everyone is a clone of you?! Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI, Deal has said that after this school year, they will no longer be allowing any students to double up on math, per DCPS policy. So that policy may well extend to JR too, even if they allowed doubling up in the past.

Thanks. So the only option if my kid wants to go beyond pre-calc in high school is to take summer math at some point?

I am not trying to complicate your decision...but again, I don't think they care in HS if you decide to take two "math electives" at the same time. Pre-Calc, Stat, Calc AB and Calc BC are considered electives and not required Math.

If you want to follow the progression and not double up Pre Calc and Calc, then yes you should plan to take say Geometry over the Summer. DCPS has an approved vendor list (many, maybe all virtual), but you want to make sure you get sign-off from the school / DCPS prior to registering.

What counselor or admin is allowing kids to take PreCalc and AP Calc at the same time? That makes absolutely no sense. And your elective logic makes no sense. Spanish III and Spanish IV are both electives. It doesn’t mean you take them at the same time. There are sequences to courses.

This is NOT the same as taking Geometry and Algebra II the same year. That happens pretty frequently in high schools.

I am not employing any elective "logic". Simply stating that since these classes are electives, there are often no institutional restrictions to taking them together. I bet a kid could in fact take Spanish III and Spanish IV at the same time if that is what they wanted to do. Just so happens it occurs more frequently in Math.

FWIW, the kids I know that double up on Precalc anc Calc are advanced in Math. Not sure why they did not accelerate earlier (and some were transfers). Many had already had exposure to PreCalc, but not in a way that gave them DCPS credit. Honors Precalc is also not a heavy lift (the new AP Precalc may be more?). These kids wanted to be done with Calc by Junior year (they all got a 4 or 5 on the AP Calc BC test) and then take AP Stats Senior year (which is a much easier class).

Again, I am not a proponent of this progression, but simply conveying what I know some kids have done historically.

Interesting. In many districts (and private schools) the new AP precalc curriculum is a fraction of the material of their traditional precalc class. Many are not offering AP precalc for this reason.

By it's very nature precalc is an ambiguous class. At some schools it's pretty simple and almost all algebra 2. At others it overlaps most of the material of AP calc AB.

My one kid is now in private (other two are in DCPS) and went from his school's honors pre-calc class to his school's AP Calc AB class and has since realized that fall of AB will be entirely review of what he learned last year in. We're 4 weeks in and that's definitely the case. He probably should have done BC but that class is known to be a beast (1.5 hours of homework a night, maybe 2 As given to a class of 20 kids). He elected to focus on humanities instead because he was pretty beaten up by honors pre-calc (also a beast---a handful of As (maybe 4?) out of 30 kids)

I’m the poster just above you, and I assume the premise is that AP pre-calc is setting kids up to move straight into AP Calc BC or college-level calculus (for seniors taking AP pre-calc). So it’s less review and more…calc.

Quite the opposite. AP Precalc is for humanities and marketing majors who will never take an class at AP calc AB or higher.

"AP" Precalc is worthless to anyone who takes Calc AB or college Calc 1, because they won't get college credit for Precalc. But it's useful for people who need a math credit and will not take non-Marketing calculus.

I mean…I have a kid in it, who is an accelerated math kid and will take BC next year. And I had a kid take honors. They have compared notes, and AP is more accelerated.

But I’m sure it also serves the purpose you note. Both things can be true!

That's wild. In most districts and private schools AP precalc is significant (like 50%) less rigorous than their long-standing standard pre-calc curriculum. I have no idea what DCPS pre-calc was teaching if it was less than the AP pre-calc exam. DCPS is such a joke.

Folks, this is the first year AP Precalc has been offered. It is literally 1 month into its existence. Not sure how anyone is claiming how rigorous or not AP Precalc may be as there is no historical information on which to make such a judgment.

Administrators have seen the AP precalc standards. They are super low and don't cover many districts' on-level pre-calc class, let alone honors. That is why most publics and every private I know has not made the switch to AP pre-calc. They don't want to significantly dumb down their current pre-calc class.

The AP curriculum is a minimum, not a maximum.

The only reason to avoid it (aside from the money) is if you want to skip some of the topics and do others instead, and thus don't think the exam is valid.
This happens in Humanities classes.

[Anonymous]

Just a heads up DCPS will only offer AP Precalc next year. No honors course or non AP precalc course. They say if a kid is taking precalc they must be on an advanced math track and should take the AP version. DCPS has this amazing way of always focusing on the wrong things.