Shows you once loved, but found painful on rewatch

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Buffy. Just knowing Whedon's take on women -- ugh.

I've thought a fair amount about this one. When all this came out I remember SMG publicly responding that she didn't want to be associated with Joss, but was still proud to have her name associated with Buffy Summers. It made me think of all the work all the talented actresses and others put in, under challenges work environments, and how most of the messages of the show are still very valuable. Buffy was the hero and still is. I don't want to take away the accomplishments of everyone else who worked on my favorite show as a teen.

Does Whedon still profit a lot from residuals, etc.? I assume there is still a lot of Comicon activity for cast that didn't have a lot of success post-show. The people who were actually abused in this situation aren't suggesting that the show itself is bad in any way. Are you just uncomfortable watching now thinking about the BTS or is there actually a financial or other reason not to rewatch at this point? Just curious. I don't want to support Whedon but somehow can separate him from "his" creation.

[Anonymous]

Modern Family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seinfeld...lots of things are now considered inappropriate and also just would never happen if anyone had a cell phone.

The most exquisite comedy is inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Modern Family

I’m only watching this now for the first time and I think it’s hilarious!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Buffy. Just knowing Whedon's take on women -- ugh.

Firefly, for the same reason + we now know Nathan Fillion is an unpleasant person at best.

Most 80s/90s shows, even if they hold up in other respects, seem to have random "you're ok for a girl" language thrown in. It's really jarring.

What happened?

So far as I know he's not accused of anything criminal or even really bad - no assault or anything like that. Accusations of bullying, being rude to fans, and just generally being an arrogant so-and-so. And his full-throated support for Whedon. Actors don't have to be nice people, but since his on-screen characters play the "I'm a jerk" angle for laughs, that doesn't work for me if he's actually a jerk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Buffy. Just knowing Whedon's take on women -- ugh.

I've thought a fair amount about this one. When all this came out I remember SMG publicly responding that she didn't want to be associated with Joss, but was still proud to have her name associated with Buffy Summers. It made me think of all the work all the talented actresses and others put in, under challenges work environments, and how most of the messages of the show are still very valuable. Buffy was the hero and still is. I don't want to take away the accomplishments of everyone else who worked on my favorite show as a teen.

Does Whedon still profit a lot from residuals, etc.? I assume there is still a lot of Comicon activity for cast that didn't have a lot of success post-show. The people who were actually abused in this situation aren't suggesting that the show itself is bad in any way. Are you just uncomfortable watching now thinking about the BTS or is there actually a financial or other reason not to rewatch at this point? Just curious. I don't want to support Whedon but somehow can separate him from "his" creation.

I'm the PP above.

I don't have any problem with other viewers who can watch the show without connecting it directly with Whedon. These things are complicated. If you enjoy it, continue to enjoy it.

I had such respect and affection for that show. It came at a time in my life when I needed to kick a-s, and boy, did it help. It is beautiful to watch powerful, funny, active women! I loved that, and I loved the metaphors of working through common problems of the teenage years and into adulthood through the lens of fantasy.

However, my understanding of Whedon's world has even infected the storyline for me. It's not about finances, but that I can't myself forget that he likes to hurt women. I think he set up SMG/Buffy as this golden girl, and then he tortured her -- in the storyline, there was the rape, the shame, the degradation. I'm pretty sure he got off on that and being in control of making it happen.

I just can't separate that out anymore.

Whedon has long been fascinated with the purported contradiction of watching a small, cute and magical teenage girl beating up hulking bad guys. .... He hinged the political potency of “Buffy” on his protagonist’s extraordinary physicality — all the while presenting her and practically every other teen girl on the show as a sexy, slender, midriff-bearing pixie. As such, it turns my stomach to read Carpenter’s allegations. Was the show ever really invested in revolutionizing the narratives of victimhood? Or was it primarily about putting desirable young women on display?
...
Perhaps more importantly, in undercutting the damsel in distress trope, Whedon and his writing team created a flawed new one: the girl who can deal out punishment partly because she takes so much abuse, one who can absorb everything you throw at her, only to spout a retort while spitting blood and kicking you in the crotch. Come on, she seems to say, I can take it. In the later seasons of “Buffy,” Whedon literally kills and resurrects his heroine, ripping her out of heaven so she can return to Earth and reluctantly avert the apocalypse once again. Buffy’s revivification traumatizes her, leading to self-harm, depression and emotional calluses that play out until the series finale. It’s a narrative ethos that suggests that maturing into womanhood means growing emotionally numb.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/02/13/carpenter-whedon-buffy-feminist-legacy/

But what we mostly missed in Dollhouse at the time that’s become far more clear as more and more allegations of Joss Whedon’s toxic behavior come to light is this: the series gave us an extremely good and deeply troubling idea of what Joss Whedon thought of women, their bodies, and their agency.
...
As you might guess from the description, Dollhouse is an incredibly rapey concept. The actives, male and female, are pimped out to be perfect, willing partners for clients, most often for sex and used for sex by their handlers and the leadership of the Dollhouse. ...
And that’s just the beginning. Not only are Sierra and Echo raped continuously as dolls, but Sierra is also raped by her handler in her childlike “tabula rasa” state. Another character, Mellie (Miracle Laurie) is revealed to be a doll known as November and after she’s released from the Dollhouse, she’s then recaptured forcefully, and yep, raped by clients as a doll.

https://www.themarysue.com/joss-whedon-showed-us-exactly-what-he-thought-of-women-with-dollhouse/

I think Whedon really, really liked "exploring" what happens to strong, beautiful, vibrant women when they are brought down and humiliated, even raped. He liked breaking them. I feel used, as a viewer, when I remember that this is what he wanted to show me, a woman. He had a message for us, I think.

This idea of a woman who can take abuse and remain “powerful” (meaning able to be physically violent) is explored via River Tam in Firefly, where Whedon also made sure one of his lead women was a courtesan who the hero continually called a whore.
...
Now, of course, this is a drama and of course, heroes in all sorts of shows suffer and are hurt, but Whedon’s oeuvre reveals a particularly yucky obsession with young, beautiful, sexy women who can kick ass who are constantly victimized. As Whedon wrote on Buffy, it’s all about power, because making a woman powerful makes it even more satisfying when you get to have power over her.

https://www.themarysue.com/joss-whedon-showed-us-exactly-what-he-thought-of-women-with-dollhouse/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I somehow enjoyed Entourage the first time around. My husband was re-watching and I couldn't believe that as a woman I ever found it entertaining.

Sooooo painfully corny.

Agree. Corny but the Ari Gold character still cracks me up. Especially the scene where he had that nerf gun or paint gun and got revenge on his old co workers and rivals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seinfeld is awesome still!

Yeah, I’m a gen Xer and just can’t get over Seinfeld’s ‘relationship’ with the high school kid, Shoshanna. Especially since my daughter is almost her age now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still love 10 things I hate about you.

Haven’t been able to watch seinfeld (or friends) although I know other people who say they think seinfeld still holds up

Aaron Sorkin’s stuff (definitely west wing and maybe even sports night) seems to get pretty dated, altho again some people can look past it.

I haven’t rewatched WW, but I think Sports Night holds up really well (and is one of the greatest shows).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:National Lampoon's Vacation.

Which one?

I still find them all hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Modern Family totally still holds up for me. Loved it.

ER was painful on rewatch. I just saw the episode where they discover a woman in a skirt actually has a penis. If it really was an inner city ER, hopefully they’d handle the realization better.

[Anonymous]

ER

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t say loved, but I liked Sex in the City. Now I can’t watch it.

I watch Gilmore Girls only for Emily and Paris.

Agree with Sex and the City. So unrealistic now and a fantasy world. I could not even get through one episode of And Just Like That...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lost and Sopranos and others where the finale was a let down.


I still like ER and Desperate Housewives though

Yes.

[Anonymous]

When I was little I watched St Elsewhere with my dad. I found some episodes last year and ir was cringey to watch on so many levels.