William and mary for premed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Not easy anywhere, but there is a difference.

Well known if you read any of the pre-med advising boards that there is no such thing as a boost based on where an applicant went undergrad. I wish there was- my kid at a T20 had a much more challenging orgo class than my other kid's roommate at JMU or her HS bff at VCU. But no brownie points for having gone to a T20. Hopefully the tougher curriculum will help net a higher MCAT score.
The general advice is go undergrad where you can get the highest BCPM GPA and overall GPA.

In general, though, more selective schools have higher average GPAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Not easy anywhere, but there is a difference.

Well known if you read any of the pre-med advising boards that there is no such thing as a boost based on where an applicant went undergrad. I wish there was- my kid at a T20 had a much more challenging orgo class than my other kid's roommate at JMU or her HS bff at VCU. But no brownie points for having gone to a T20. Hopefully the tougher curriculum will help net a higher MCAT score.
The general advice is go undergrad where you can get the highest BCPM GPA and overall GPA.

How on earth would you know this? Oh, right. You don’t.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Not easy anywhere, but there is a difference.

Well known if you read any of the pre-med advising boards that there is no such thing as a boost based on where an applicant went undergrad. I wish there was- my kid at a T20 had a much more challenging orgo class than my other kid's roommate at JMU or her HS bff at VCU. But no brownie points for having gone to a T20. Hopefully the tougher curriculum will help net a higher MCAT score.
The general advice is go undergrad where you can get the highest BCPM GPA and overall GPA.

How on earth would you know this? Oh, right. You don’t.
DP

Hmm. You are not doing JMU any favors with your posts.

[Anonymous]

I think W&M could be an excellent pre-med choice because the commitment to undergraduate teaching and research is strong. This is particularly relevant and evident in the sciences. I believe their acceptance rate is significantly above the national average. The pre-med advising can probably provide useful information.

What you don't want a school that is cut throat or overrun with pre-meds. I don't think that is the case at W&M.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Easier yes. But premed courses such as organic chemistry are more challenging than most college courses.

Sorry, they are not easier. There is zero substantiation for your claim. And JMU's nursing school is notoriously difficult to get into.
DP

What's the acceptance rate for the nursing school compared to other nursing schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Easier yes. But premed courses such as organic chemistry are more challenging than most college courses.

How are the courses at JMU easier?

Easier in the sense of less competition. Easier for a top student to be at the top of the curve.

Where did you see that either school still grades undergrads on a curve?

Some med programs are strict about grade cut-offs, but that's changing--they look more at the rigor of the undergrad now too.

How do they see the rigor of the undergrad? I hope the answer isn't "USNWR ranking"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

This really does not sound true.

Grades at W&M aren’t any different than grades at similar institutions. I think the average undergraduate GPA in 2015 was about a 3.35. It’s almost certainly higher now. W&M students get into medical school at higher rates than “average” because they’re generally much better than average students. I’d be interested in seeing a comparison to just similar academic institutions. My guess is that acceptance rates would look very similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

This really does not sound true.

Grades at W&M aren’t any different than grades at similar institutions. I think the average undergraduate GPA in 2015 was about a 3.35. It’s almost certainly higher now. W&M students get into medical school at higher rates than “average” because they’re generally much better than average students. I’d be interested in seeing a comparison to just similar academic institutions. My guess is that acceptance rates would look very similar.

Average GPA may now be above 3.5. W&M (and UVA) have among the highest average GPAs for public schools. The highest average undergraduate GPAs tend to be at private schools. I believe schools like Brown are above 3.8 now.

We looked at data for this a couple of years ago and what you say is mostly true. Schools with better students generally have higher acceptance rates to medical school. I kept the data points below for high and low rates in recent years based on data from the schools. The average is about 40% of applicants are admitted to at least one accredited school:

W&M: 65% to 50%
UVA: 60% to 52%
Michigan: 58% to 54%
Berkeley: 57% to 51%
UCLA: 51% to 45%

All of these schools have quite a few applicants based on data I saw. As I recall, though, UCLA had a significantly higher number of applicants than Berkeley, which might explain why it rates are a bit lower. Many schools only report stats with asterisks like "of students with at least 3.6 GPA in core courses" or of those receiving a recommendation from a committee, so you need to be careful in interpreting data points.

I think what you really want is a school where your kid is going to be comfortable. Pre-med is going to be tough no matter where you go.

BTW, our kid has moved away from pre-med. You should also consider that in choosing a school, as that is a common occurence.

[Anonymous]

Anyone know current average GPA needed from William and Mary to have a decent chance at getting into med school? Freshman DC is disappointed with their GPA but seems ok with a mix of A and B in typical freshman stem courses

[Anonymous]

NP.
Any school that has smart students is going to have classes that are more difficult than schools w/out. True for CNU and UVA, W&M and JMU, Loyola and UMD, UNC not CH and UNCCH, etc. This is necessarily the case because there's more content that students are able to understand. The medians are higher so the classes is harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Not easy anywhere, but there is a difference.

Well known if you read any of the pre-med advising boards that there is no such thing as a boost based on where an applicant went undergrad. I wish there was- my kid at a T20 had a much more challenging orgo class than my other kid's roommate at JMU or her HS bff at VCU. But no brownie points for having gone to a T20. Hopefully the tougher curriculum will help net a higher MCAT score.
The general advice is go undergrad where you can get the highest BCPM GPA and overall GPA.

What are some of the pre-med advising boards that you read?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Not easy anywhere, but there is a difference.

Well known if you read any of the pre-med advising boards that there is no such thing as a boost based on where an applicant went undergrad. I wish there was- my kid at a T20 had a much more challenging orgo class than my other kid's roommate at JMU or her HS bff at VCU. But no brownie points for having gone to a T20. Hopefully the tougher curriculum will help net a higher MCAT score.
The general advice is go undergrad where you can get the highest BCPM GPA and overall GPA.

What are some of the pre-med advising boards that you read?

DP, work in med school consulting. Most premed advising boards are just a bunch of moms who have never served on med admissions committees and are not physicians.
The undergrad does matter, and med schools assign tiers to undergrad institutions, though it is not an overwhelming factor in the decision. Applicants are considered in the contest of the undergrad as well as the major(ie engineering gets a slight boost due to the intensity). Undergrad schools typically provide info on the average premed applicant gpa. MCAT is more important than GPA or school. Many below average students at elite schools are able to score 518+, so their 3.5 or 3.6 does not hurt them too much even though it is well below the average elite school gpa. A 3.5 or 3.6 from JMU and also a 518? Hard to know because that combination never happens IME. Even 3.9s from JMU rarely have over a 512.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Not easy anywhere, but there is a difference.

Well known if you read any of the pre-med advising boards that there is no such thing as a boost based on where an applicant went undergrad. I wish there was- my kid at a T20 had a much more challenging orgo class than my other kid's roommate at JMU or her HS bff at VCU. But no brownie points for having gone to a T20. Hopefully the tougher curriculum will help net a higher MCAT score.
The general advice is go undergrad where you can get the highest BCPM GPA and overall GPA.

What are some of the pre-med advising boards that you read?

DP, work in med school consulting. Most premed advising boards are just a bunch of moms who have never served on med admissions committees and are not physicians.
The undergrad does matter, and med schools assign tiers to undergrad institutions, though it is not an overwhelming factor in the decision. Applicants are considered in the contest of the undergrad as well as the major(ie engineering gets a slight boost due to the intensity). Undergrad schools typically provide info on the average premed applicant gpa. MCAT is more important than GPA or school. Many below average students at elite schools are able to score 518+, so their 3.5 or 3.6 does not hurt them too much even though it is well below the average elite school gpa. A 3.5 or 3.6 from JMU and also a 518? Hard to know because that combination never happens IME. Even 3.9s from JMU rarely have over a 512.

Interesting. So does a 3.8-3.9 from JMU or comparable school with a 512 (which is the average school for med school matriculants from the data I've seen) usually result in an acceptance into a MD program? What about DO?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Not easy anywhere, but there is a difference.

Well known if you read any of the pre-med advising boards that there is no such thing as a boost based on where an applicant went undergrad. I wish there was- my kid at a T20 had a much more challenging orgo class than my other kid's roommate at JMU or her HS bff at VCU. But no brownie points for having gone to a T20. Hopefully the tougher curriculum will help net a higher MCAT score.
The general advice is go undergrad where you can get the highest BCPM GPA and overall GPA.

How on earth would you know this? Oh, right. You don’t.
DP

DP: my kid is also at a top 20. I know grades are higher elsewhere bc they curve and do not curve at this school.

[Anonymous]

William & Mary had 153 applicants to MD schools.

65%-85% of applicants with a B+ or higher GPA get accepted into MD medical schools.

99-130 students per year from W&M are accepted.

There are the following degrees conferred roughly per year: 157 Bio majors, 51 Chemistry majors, 93 Health Science majors, 69 Neuroscience majors, 27 Sociology majors

The AAMC reports that 57% of applicants major in the biological sciences, 17% are health science majors, 3% are humanities majors, 8% have a physical science major, 9% have a social science major

So these majors represent 95% of all medical school applicants. Looking at W&M, 397 degrees were conferred in these majors. Obviously not every student who majored in these areas applied to medical school. But even if you assumed EVERY student who graduated from W&M wanted to apply to medical school:

397 degrees conferred, 157 in biology. 57% of AAMC applicants have a bio degree, so of the 153 applicants to allopathic schools, you would expect 87 to be bio majors.

There were 99-130 acceptances. Assuming 57% of these acceptances were in the biological sciences you are left with 56-74 biology major acceptances out of 157 bio students who graduated from W&M.

You have an extremely high probability to be accepted into medical school with a biology degree from W&M.