"1923" Catholic horrors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“…Many Christian denominations have apologized for their involvement in operating Indian residential and boarding schools both in the United States and Canada. The Catholic Church, however, has not issued an apology...”

outrageous.

According to NPR in July, 2022, that is not true. https://www.npr.org/2022/07/25/1113378991/pope-apology-canada-indigenous-schools . Pope Francis has issued an apology.

"MASKWACIS, Alberta — Pope Francis issued a historic apology Monday for the Catholic Church's cooperation with Canada's "catastrophic" policy of Indigenous residential schools, saying the forced assimilation of Native peoples into Christian society destroyed their cultures, severed families and marginalized generations in ways still being felt today.

"I am sorry," Francis said, ..."

Good.

[Anonymous]

Also, the Catholic Church itself did not have these government contracts to run the schools for the feds, various orders did, and those orders apologized too as the modern members learned of the history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The United States GOVERNMENT (not the Catholic church) forced Native Americans families to send their children to boarding schools. Why does the crappy government get a pass on their violent past?

Native American Boarding Schools (also known as Indian Boarding Schools) were established by the U.S. government in the late 19th century as an effort to assimilate Indigenous youth into mainstream American culture through education. This era was part of the United States’ overall attempt to kill, annihilate, or assimilate Indigenous peoples and eradicate Indigenous culture.

The Native American assimilation era first began in 1819, when the U.S. Congress passed The Civilization Fund Act. The act encouraged American education to be provided to Indigenous societies and therefore enforced the “civilization process".

The passing of this act eventually led to the creation of the federally funded Native American Boarding Schools and initiated the beginning of the Indian Boarding School era. The duration of this era ran from 1860 until 1978. Approximately 357 boarding schools operated across 30 states during this era both on and off reservations and housed over 60,000 native children. A third of these boarding schools were operated by Christian missionaries as well as members of the federal government.

Native American Boarding Schools first began operating in 1860 when the Bureau of Indian Affairs established the first on-reservation boarding school on the Yakima Indian Reservation in Washington. Shortly after, the first off-reservation boarding school was established in 1879. The Carlisle Indian School located in Carlisle, Pennsylvania was founded by Richard Henry Pratt. He modeled the boarding school off an education program he designed while overseeing Fort Marion Prison in St. Augustine, Florida. He developed the program after experimenting with Native American assimilation education on imprisoned and captive Indigenous peoples. Pratt served as the Headmaster of the Carlisle Indian School for 25 years and was famously known for his highly influential philosophy which he described in a speech he gave in 1892. He stated, “A great general has said that the only good Indian is a dead one. In a sense, I agree with the sentiment, but only in this: that all the Indian there is in the race should be dead. Kill the Indian in him, and save the man.”

https://www.theindigenousfoundation.org/articles/us-residential-schools

The government did this.

Attendance to the boarding schools was made mandatory by the U.S. Government regardless of whether or not Indigenous families gave their consent. Upon arrival, Native children were given Anglo-American names, bathed in kerosene, given military-style clothing in exchange for their traditional clothing, and their hair would be shaved off for the boys and cut into short bob styles for girls.

Terrible -- and we wouldn't/don't do this type of thing today. We have been taught to respect other religions, even while practicing a different religion. Someday, hopefully soon, this respect will extend to people who do not practice any religion at all.

Why thread jack every post to the topic of atheists?

This thread is a retread of an earlier attack of the Catholic faith, which failed miserably when it was shown lots of different religions (including Episcopals, Presbyterians, Quakers, and Methodists) all ran Indian boarding schools at the direction of the United States Government.

Indian boarding schools were not a Catholic problem-and taking every thread off topic to push your pet theory that atheists are not respected is against forum rules as well as against reality. If people don’t like you-it’s not because of your religious or lack of religion- it’s your attitude and personality and the way you treat and interact with others in society.

But did they all act the same or were some a little or even a lot more brutal than others? The actions in 1923 by the Catholic schools were truly horrible? Are you saying Quakers and Episcopals acted that way, too??

You need to research and report back. The US Government did alot of bad stuff too. They made the system. Many religious groups got money from the US gov to “kill the indian.”

The obsession with blaming Catholics for Indian boarding schools is pathological. This is the second, identical thread about it. -not a Catholic

Here is some info, "The Catholic Church must come clean—completely—about what it did to Native Americans
The Editors
June 30, 2021". Read the article here: https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2021/06/30/native-american-boarding-schools-catholic-church-investigation-240950

As do others, is PO’s point, I believe. Why are you singling out one set of the boarding school contractors? Is it because a TV dramatization is all you have bothered to learn about this history? Can you not understand that not all Catholics were bad actors and also that those who were were not the only ones? Hold all of the actual bad actors accountable.

[Anonymous]

It is not anti-Catholic to state that the Catholic Church inflicted many horrors on Native children. So did the US government, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not anti-Catholic to state that the Catholic Church inflicted many horrors on Native children. So did the US government, of course.

It is, however, as a PP alluded, inaccurate to refer to “The Catholic Church” as a unitary entity. The Church itself is composed of any number of local Churches (e.g., The Archdiocese of Washington), as well as countless religious orders that effectively operate independently at the non-doctrinal level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve come to the conclusion that any organization where people are asked to believe and espouse things without evidence and where authority comes from unseen actors leads to abuse of power.

All power already leads to abuse because we’re humans but the nature of most religions makes it worse.

I feel the same way. That's also why the swamp was so effective. He never actually named names and deeds. But these religious people were so used to just believing that they just shifted over to a new hate group they had no actual knowledge of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not anti-Catholic to state that the Catholic Church inflicted many horrors on Native children. So did the US government, of course.

It is, however, as a PP alluded, inaccurate to refer to “The Catholic Church” as a unitary entity. The Church itself is composed of any number of local Churches (e.g., The Archdiocese of Washington), as well as countless religious orders that effectively operate independently at the non-doctrinal level.

Yes, but they are still part of the entity known as “The Catholic Church” and thus share the benefits and responsibilities of that association.

To suggest otherwise sounds like an attempt to disassociate good aspects of the Church from the bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The United States GOVERNMENT (not the Catholic church) forced Native Americans families to send their children to boarding schools. Why does the crappy government get a pass on their violent past?

Native American Boarding Schools (also known as Indian Boarding Schools) were established by the U.S. government in the late 19th century as an effort to assimilate Indigenous youth into mainstream American culture through education. This era was part of the United States’ overall attempt to kill, annihilate, or assimilate Indigenous peoples and eradicate Indigenous culture.

The Native American assimilation era first began in 1819, when the U.S. Congress passed The Civilization Fund Act. The act encouraged American education to be provided to Indigenous societies and therefore enforced the “civilization process".

The passing of this act eventually led to the creation of the federally funded Native American Boarding Schools and initiated the beginning of the Indian Boarding School era. The duration of this era ran from 1860 until 1978. Approximately 357 boarding schools operated across 30 states during this era both on and off reservations and housed over 60,000 native children. A third of these boarding schools were operated by Christian missionaries as well as members of the federal government.

Native American Boarding Schools first began operating in 1860 when the Bureau of Indian Affairs established the first on-reservation boarding school on the Yakima Indian Reservation in Washington. Shortly after, the first off-reservation boarding school was established in 1879. The Carlisle Indian School located in Carlisle, Pennsylvania was founded by Richard Henry Pratt. He modeled the boarding school off an education program he designed while overseeing Fort Marion Prison in St. Augustine, Florida. He developed the program after experimenting with Native American assimilation education on imprisoned and captive Indigenous peoples. Pratt served as the Headmaster of the Carlisle Indian School for 25 years and was famously known for his highly influential philosophy which he described in a speech he gave in 1892. He stated, “A great general has said that the only good Indian is a dead one. In a sense, I agree with the sentiment, but only in this: that all the Indian there is in the race should be dead. Kill the Indian in him, and save the man.”

https://www.theindigenousfoundation.org/articles/us-residential-schools

The government did this.

Attendance to the boarding schools was made mandatory by the U.S. Government regardless of whether or not Indigenous families gave their consent. Upon arrival, Native children were given Anglo-American names, bathed in kerosene, given military-style clothing in exchange for their traditional clothing, and their hair would be shaved off for the boys and cut into short bob styles for girls.

Terrible -- and we wouldn't/don't do this type of thing today. We have been taught to respect other religions, even while practicing a different religion. Someday, hopefully soon, this respect will extend to people who do not practice any religion at all.

Why thread jack every post to the topic of atheists?

This thread is a retread of an earlier attack of the Catholic faith, which failed miserably when it was shown lots of different religions (including Episcopals, Presbyterians, Quakers, and Methodists) all ran Indian boarding schools at the direction of the United States Government.

Indian boarding schools were not a Catholic problem-and taking every thread off topic to push your pet theory that atheists are not respected is against forum rules as well as against reality. If people don’t like you-it’s not because of your religious or lack of religion- it’s your attitude and personality and the way you treat and interact with others in society.

But did they all act the same or were some a little or even a lot more brutal than others? The actions in 1923 by the Catholic schools were truly horrible? Are you saying Quakers and Episcopals acted that way, too??

You need to research and report back. The US Government did alot of bad stuff too. They made the system. Many religious groups got money from the US gov to “kill the indian.”

The obsession with blaming Catholics for Indian boarding schools is pathological. This is the second, identical thread about it. -not a Catholic

Here is some info, "The Catholic Church must come clean—completely—about what it did to Native Americans
The Editors
June 30, 2021". Read the article here: https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2021/06/30/native-american-boarding-schools-catholic-church-investigation-240950

As do others, is PO’s point, I believe. Why are you singling out one set of the boarding school contractors? Is it because a TV dramatization is all you have bothered to learn about this history? Can you not understand that not all Catholics were bad actors and also that those who were were not the only ones? Hold all of the actual bad actors accountable.

And I hope you understand that the fact that not ALL catholics were bad actors, does not excuse the role of a trusted organization like the Church in these atrocities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not anti-Catholic to state that the Catholic Church inflicted many horrors on Native children. So did the US government, of course.

Absolutely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie chose a Catholic storyline, but that is a tiny sliver of the atrocities of this US government program to assimilate Native American children. Catholic orders ran about 20% of the government’s abusive schools. Others were run by other religious organizations and private contractors. I’m sure the government would love for this to be just another Catholic bashing chapter in history. Don’t let them off the hook. Accountability across the board.

You think the US Government is catholic bashing? The Democratic President is Catholic. So are several Republican Supreme Court Justices.

You misread the comment.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand this rush to label any negative comments about the Catholic Church as “anti-Catholic.”

Crazed anti-Catholic hate exists, no question. In the south when I was young, Catholics were lumped together with Jews and Blacks for insane hate by many white Protestants. But I don’t think Catholics do themselves any favors by trying to conflate the two.

We Jews have the same thing in our community. Some hateful terrorist settler kills a Palestinian child, and many Jews (and lots of the same right wing folks who not so long ago used to hate us but are now our “allies”) claim that journalists who report on the terrorist act are anti-Semitic. We don’t do ourselves any favors with that, especially since there is a LOT of real anti-Semitism these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The United States GOVERNMENT (not the Catholic church) forced Native Americans families to send their children to boarding schools. Why does the crappy government get a pass on their violent past?

Native American Boarding Schools (also known as Indian Boarding Schools) were established by the U.S. government in the late 19th century as an effort to assimilate Indigenous youth into mainstream American culture through education. This era was part of the United States’ overall attempt to kill, annihilate, or assimilate Indigenous peoples and eradicate Indigenous culture.

The Native American assimilation era first began in 1819, when the U.S. Congress passed The Civilization Fund Act. The act encouraged American education to be provided to Indigenous societies and therefore enforced the “civilization process".

The passing of this act eventually led to the creation of the federally funded Native American Boarding Schools and initiated the beginning of the Indian Boarding School era. The duration of this era ran from 1860 until 1978. Approximately 357 boarding schools operated across 30 states during this era both on and off reservations and housed over 60,000 native children. A third of these boarding schools were operated by Christian missionaries as well as members of the federal government.

Native American Boarding Schools first began operating in 1860 when the Bureau of Indian Affairs established the first on-reservation boarding school on the Yakima Indian Reservation in Washington. Shortly after, the first off-reservation boarding school was established in 1879. The Carlisle Indian School located in Carlisle, Pennsylvania was founded by Richard Henry Pratt. He modeled the boarding school off an education program he designed while overseeing Fort Marion Prison in St. Augustine, Florida. He developed the program after experimenting with Native American assimilation education on imprisoned and captive Indigenous peoples. Pratt served as the Headmaster of the Carlisle Indian School for 25 years and was famously known for his highly influential philosophy which he described in a speech he gave in 1892. He stated, “A great general has said that the only good Indian is a dead one. In a sense, I agree with the sentiment, but only in this: that all the Indian there is in the race should be dead. Kill the Indian in him, and save the man.”

https://www.theindigenousfoundation.org/articles/us-residential-schools

The government did this.

Attendance to the boarding schools was made mandatory by the U.S. Government regardless of whether or not Indigenous families gave their consent. Upon arrival, Native children were given Anglo-American names, bathed in kerosene, given military-style clothing in exchange for their traditional clothing, and their hair would be shaved off for the boys and cut into short bob styles for girls.

The tribes who made deals and sold land to the govt often were only paid based on doing things like giving up buffalo hunts, and sending their children to these horrible schools. The govt made deals and did everything they could not to give them the money they were owed. An interesting book, although not about the impact of forced Catholicism, is "Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie chose a Catholic storyline, but that is a tiny sliver of the atrocities of this US government program to assimilate Native American children. Catholic orders ran about 20% of the government’s abusive schools. Others were run by other religious organizations and private contractors. I’m sure the government would love for this to be just another Catholic bashing chapter in history. Don’t let them off the hook. Accountability across the board.

You think the US Government is catholic bashing? The Democratic President is Catholic. So are several Republican Supreme Court Justices.

I think he/she/they are saying that there are multiple entities that were behaving that way back then.

In the US it was about 50% Catholic, 50% Protestant. So it was mostly Catholic with a smattering of Presbyterian, Episcopal, Methodist, etc
“While it doesn't say how many were church-run, an earlier report by the National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition found that more than 150 were, about half each by Catholic and Protestant groups.” https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/u-s-report-details-church-state-collusion-on-indigenous-schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The United States GOVERNMENT (not the Catholic church) forced Native Americans families to send their children to boarding schools. Why does the crappy government get a pass on their violent past?

Native American Boarding Schools (also known as Indian Boarding Schools) were established by the U.S. government in the late 19th century as an effort to assimilate Indigenous youth into mainstream American culture through education. This era was part of the United States’ overall attempt to kill, annihilate, or assimilate Indigenous peoples and eradicate Indigenous culture.

The Native American assimilation era first began in 1819, when the U.S. Congress passed The Civilization Fund Act. The act encouraged American education to be provided to Indigenous societies and therefore enforced the “civilization process".

The passing of this act eventually led to the creation of the federally funded Native American Boarding Schools and initiated the beginning of the Indian Boarding School era. The duration of this era ran from 1860 until 1978. Approximately 357 boarding schools operated across 30 states during this era both on and off reservations and housed over 60,000 native children. A third of these boarding schools were operated by Christian missionaries as well as members of the federal government.

Native American Boarding Schools first began operating in 1860 when the Bureau of Indian Affairs established the first on-reservation boarding school on the Yakima Indian Reservation in Washington. Shortly after, the first off-reservation boarding school was established in 1879. The Carlisle Indian School located in Carlisle, Pennsylvania was founded by Richard Henry Pratt. He modeled the boarding school off an education program he designed while overseeing Fort Marion Prison in St. Augustine, Florida. He developed the program after experimenting with Native American assimilation education on imprisoned and captive Indigenous peoples. Pratt served as the Headmaster of the Carlisle Indian School for 25 years and was famously known for his highly influential philosophy which he described in a speech he gave in 1892. He stated, “A great general has said that the only good Indian is a dead one. In a sense, I agree with the sentiment, but only in this: that all the Indian there is in the race should be dead. Kill the Indian in him, and save the man.”

https://www.theindigenousfoundation.org/articles/us-residential-schools

The government did this.

Attendance to the boarding schools was made mandatory by the U.S. Government regardless of whether or not Indigenous families gave their consent. Upon arrival, Native children were given Anglo-American names, bathed in kerosene, given military-style clothing in exchange for their traditional clothing, and their hair would be shaved off for the boys and cut into short bob styles for girls.

Terrible -- and we wouldn't/don't do this type of thing today. We have been taught to respect other religions, even while practicing a different religion. Someday, hopefully soon, this respect will extend to people who do not practice any religion at all.

Why thread jack every post to the topic of atheists?

This thread is a retread of an earlier attack of the Catholic faith, which failed miserably when it was shown lots of different religions (including Episcopals, Presbyterians, Quakers, and Methodists) all ran Indian boarding schools at the direction of the United States Government.

Indian boarding schools were not a Catholic problem-and taking every thread off topic to push your pet theory that atheists are not respected is against forum rules as well as against reality. If people don’t like you-it’s not because of your religious or lack of religion- it’s your attitude and personality and the way you treat and interact with others in society.

But did they all act the same or were some a little or even a lot more brutal than others? The actions in 1923 by the Catholic schools were truly horrible? Are you saying Quakers and Episcopals acted that way, too??

You need to research and report back. The US Government did alot of bad stuff too. They made the system. Many religious groups got money from the US gov to “kill the indian.”

The obsession with blaming Catholics for Indian boarding schools is pathological. This is the second, identical thread about it. -not a Catholic

Here is some info, "The Catholic Church must come clean—completely—about what it did to Native Americans
The Editors
June 30, 2021". Read the article here: https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2021/06/30/native-american-boarding-schools-catholic-church-investigation-240950

As do others, is PO’s point, I believe. Why are you singling out one set of the boarding school contractors? Is it because a TV dramatization is all you have bothered to learn about this history? Can you not understand that not all Catholics were bad actors and also that those who were were not the only ones? Hold all of the actual bad actors accountable.

And I hope you understand that the fact that not ALL catholics were bad actors, does not excuse the role of a trusted organization like the Church in these atrocities.

+1
Catholics frequently want credit for all the “charity” they do, but don’t want to be associated with all the massive things they did that effectively tortured millions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The United States GOVERNMENT (not the Catholic church) forced Native Americans families to send their children to boarding schools. Why does the crappy government get a pass on their violent past?

Native American Boarding Schools (also known as Indian Boarding Schools) were established by the U.S. government in the late 19th century as an effort to assimilate Indigenous youth into mainstream American culture through education. This era was part of the United States’ overall attempt to kill, annihilate, or assimilate Indigenous peoples and eradicate Indigenous culture.

The Native American assimilation era first began in 1819, when the U.S. Congress passed The Civilization Fund Act. The act encouraged American education to be provided to Indigenous societies and therefore enforced the “civilization process".

The passing of this act eventually led to the creation of the federally funded Native American Boarding Schools and initiated the beginning of the Indian Boarding School era. The duration of this era ran from 1860 until 1978. Approximately 357 boarding schools operated across 30 states during this era both on and off reservations and housed over 60,000 native children. A third of these boarding schools were operated by Christian missionaries as well as members of the federal government.

Native American Boarding Schools first began operating in 1860 when the Bureau of Indian Affairs established the first on-reservation boarding school on the Yakima Indian Reservation in Washington. Shortly after, the first off-reservation boarding school was established in 1879. The Carlisle Indian School located in Carlisle, Pennsylvania was founded by Richard Henry Pratt. He modeled the boarding school off an education program he designed while overseeing Fort Marion Prison in St. Augustine, Florida. He developed the program after experimenting with Native American assimilation education on imprisoned and captive Indigenous peoples. Pratt served as the Headmaster of the Carlisle Indian School for 25 years and was famously known for his highly influential philosophy which he described in a speech he gave in 1892. He stated, “A great general has said that the only good Indian is a dead one. In a sense, I agree with the sentiment, but only in this: that all the Indian there is in the race should be dead. Kill the Indian in him, and save the man.”

https://www.theindigenousfoundation.org/articles/us-residential-schools

The government did this.

Attendance to the boarding schools was made mandatory by the U.S. Government regardless of whether or not Indigenous families gave their consent. Upon arrival, Native children were given Anglo-American names, bathed in kerosene, given military-style clothing in exchange for their traditional clothing, and their hair would be shaved off for the boys and cut into short bob styles for girls.

The tribes who made deals and sold land to the govt often were only paid based on doing things like giving up buffalo hunts, and sending their children to these horrible schools. The govt made deals and did everything they could not to give them the money they were owed. An interesting book, although not about the impact of forced Catholicism, is "Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI"

Excellent book and soon to be released movie directed by Scorsese.