W&M vs UVA vs Swarthmore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore is about 1/4 the undergraduate enrollment of W&M and less than 1/10th the size of UVA undergraduate enrollment. Factor in graduate students, and the difference grows. That is a big range. You said they prefer smaller community, which would suggest Swarthmore. But you say DC is worried about a limited number of courses in STEM, which might suggest UVA and W&M. W&M might be the middle ground overall.

In STEM, though, my understanding is Swarthmore is top notch. They are close to the top in producing graduates who go on to earn PhDs in STEM. You may not want to get a PhD, but this is an indicator of overall strength of the undergraduate program as it requires demonstrated proficiency and great recommendations (close work with faculty) to get into PhD program.

From what I understand strength in STEM is a reason to choose Swat. Possibly the best STEM LAC?

[Anonymous]

A friend of mine from Hs went to Swarthmore. He was a wealthy libertarian. That's very different to UVA and W&M

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If they like small, William and Mary if you’re in state. I can’t imagine paying for Swarthmore when they have choices loke UVA and W&M.

Don’t listen to these penny pinching folks: Swarthmore is way more prestigious than UVA. It is not even close. Hard to believe this is even a serious question….

No it isn't. UVA is no. 25 in the nation and no. 3 of public schools in America. Wall Street Journal named it top public for finance this past week. It's almost impossible to get in and everyone knows that. UVA is the no. 1 public feeder to the Rhodes (other than west point).

Swarthmore is arguable the most prestigious SLAC in the United States.

UVA is another state public flagship.

But sure, they are both the same.

Congrats to the OP's kid...must be quite a student.

Uh, no. https://www.forbes.com/colleges/swarthmore-college/?sh=2bf7fe2e5fad

I note UC Davis is above all 3 of these schools and Amherst on Forbes. What to make of that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore is about 1/4 the undergraduate enrollment of W&M and less than 1/10th the size of UVA undergraduate enrollment. Factor in graduate students, and the difference grows. That is a big range. You said they prefer smaller community, which would suggest Swarthmore. But you say DC is worried about a limited number of courses in STEM, which might suggest UVA and W&M. W&M might be the middle ground overall.

In STEM, though, my understanding is Swarthmore is top notch. They are close to the top in producing graduates who go on to earn PhDs in STEM. You may not want to get a PhD, but this is an indicator of overall strength of the undergraduate program as it requires demonstrated proficiency and great recommendations (close work with faculty) to get into PhD program.

From what I understand strength in STEM is a reason to choose Swat. Possibly the best STEM LAC?

Just one data point, but Swarthmore graduates earn STEM PhDs at over 2X the rate of William and Mary and over 4X UVA.

https://www.highereddatastories.com/2020/12/baccalaureate-origins-of-doctoral.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In some ways, we are comparing the most academically rigorous LAC (for better/worse) with the most prestigious non-STEM public university. I can’t comment on money, and I know what I would do if I were 17, but this really comes down to personality. Just know what you are getting into with Swat- intense academics, hard work, and a highly respected brand but only within a small slice of the population that doesn’t totally overlap with the business world (whereas everyone everywhere knows and respects UVA). I don’t mean to give short shrift to W&M but UVA is a stronger brand - however a student with a smaller school preference might tilt W&M- but then why not go to Swat? Great choices, good luck

On what basis do you make that assertion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In some ways, we are comparing the most academically rigorous LAC (for better/worse) with the most prestigious non-STEM public university. I can’t comment on money, and I know what I would do if I were 17, but this really comes down to personality. Just know what you are getting into with Swat- intense academics, hard work, and a highly respected brand but only within a small slice of the population that doesn’t totally overlap with the business world (whereas everyone everywhere knows and respects UVA). I don’t mean to give short shrift to W&M but UVA is a stronger brand - however a student with a smaller school preference might tilt W&M- but then why not go to Swat? Great choices, good luck

On what basis do you make that assertion?

I don’t know, reputation. USNWR has UVA tied at third w Michigan behind Berkeley and UCLA. My understanding is UVA doesn’t really shine at STEM so I would infer from that it outperforms on the non-STEM front. I don’t know about UCLA but Cal, Michigan and UVA strike me as the HYP of state schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In some ways, we are comparing the most academically rigorous LAC (for better/worse) with the most prestigious non-STEM public university. I can’t comment on money, and I know what I would do if I were 17, but this really comes down to personality. Just know what you are getting into with Swat- intense academics, hard work, and a highly respected brand but only within a small slice of the population that doesn’t totally overlap with the business world (whereas everyone everywhere knows and respects UVA). I don’t mean to give short shrift to W&M but UVA is a stronger brand - however a student with a smaller school preference might tilt W&M- but then why not go to Swat? Great choices, good luck

On what basis do you make that assertion?

I don’t know, reputation. USNWR has UVA tied at third w Michigan behind Berkeley and UCLA. My understanding is UVA doesn’t really shine at STEM so I would infer from that it outperforms on the non-STEM front. I don’t know about UCLA but Cal, Michigan and UVA strike me as the HYP of state schools

OP appears to want STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In some ways, we are comparing the most academically rigorous LAC (for better/worse) with the most prestigious non-STEM public university. I can’t comment on money, and I know what I would do if I were 17, but this really comes down to personality. Just know what you are getting into with Swat- intense academics, hard work, and a highly respected brand but only within a small slice of the population that doesn’t totally overlap with the business world (whereas everyone everywhere knows and respects UVA). I don’t mean to give short shrift to W&M but UVA is a stronger brand - however a student with a smaller school preference might tilt W&M- but then why not go to Swat? Great choices, good luck

On what basis do you make that assertion?

I don’t know, reputation. USNWR has UVA tied at third w Michigan behind Berkeley and UCLA. My understanding is UVA doesn’t really shine at STEM so I would infer from that it outperforms on the non-STEM front. I don’t know about UCLA but Cal, Michigan and UVA strike me as the HYP of state schools

OP appears to want STEM.

The point has been made that STEM academics themselves push their kids to pursue STEM at LACS (more access to profs and their research activities)

[Anonymous]

If Swarthmore cost differential is at all significant, I would suggest W&M or UVA based on fit. They can get anywhere Swarthmore can get you.

[Anonymous]

Swarthmore if your child is considering getting a PhD:
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs

There's just no comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore if your child is considering getting a PhD:
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs

There's just no comparison.

And since the academic job market is in the toilet and circling fast, this means DON'T go to Swarthmore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to HYP and Swarthmore is one of the few colleges that seriously impresses me. If it were even money and STEM were not a factor, I'd say swat in a heartbeat. But if your kid is doing STEM, and if the price differential is high, I'd go with a public.

Absolutely this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore if your child is considering getting a PhD:
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs

There's just no comparison.

Is that a factor of the school or a factor of a higher percentage of students wanting to get PhDs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore if your child is considering getting a PhD:
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs

There's just no comparison.

And since the academic job market is in the toilet and circling fast, this means DON'T go to Swarthmore.

The majority of STEM PhDs work outside of academia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore if your child is considering getting a PhD:
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs

There's just no comparison.

And since the academic job market is in the toilet and circling fast, this means DON'T go to Swarthmore.

The majority of STEM PhDs work outside of academia.

Party of picking a good major is picking one where you don't need an advanced degree to be employable - e.g. not the life sciences.