Petition to DC Council for FY 2024 Charter School Budgets

[Anonymous]

All funding for public education is supposed to go through the UPSFF -- whether it's backpay for teachers or $$ for pencils. Now DCPS is going to get an additional $180 million outside the UPSFF. Not legal, plain and simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is as it stands now in the city budget, charter schools will get approx $3500 less per student - which seems unfair to me (a taxpayer who pays for public - including charter - schools). Per student allocation from the city should be the same, whether DCPS or Charter.

It is the same in the UPSFF. DCPS gets more because of IMPACT, and as a buffer to cover mid-year arrivals. Then there's facilities funding, you can look up that lawsuit if you want.

Bottom line, if charters want to do a performance system, take kids mid-year, do Early Stages, and have bigger class sizes, then their funding would change. And charter teachers are welcome to form unions if they like. Go right ahead. But don't reject the union and then want the benefits without doing the work.

Charter parents, FYI-- adding just one kid to each class would mean you could give your teachers a raise. It's up to you!

It's really not. Parents have no power anywhere, be it DCPS or charters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All funding for public education is supposed to go through the UPSFF -- whether it's backpay for teachers or $$ for pencils. Now DCPS is going to get an additional $180 million outside the UPSFF. Not legal, plain and simple.

Cite?

DCPS gets more because they take students after Count Day. They need a buffer for the unpredictability.

[Anonymous]

off-topic but in response to the above. certain popular middle school charters start in 5th not 6th grade. they chose this presumably so students would years ago try the school for 5th knowing they could always leave for 6th. its now a not so great set-up where a large cohort of students leave the neighborhood school before 5th and the other students feel left behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I don’t think so. Tell your charter board to increase teacher salaries if you don’t like current pay structures. Charter teachers should unionize if they want the collective bargaining power that the WTU has. Why on earth should they benefit from the DCPS union’s efforts if they choose not to unionize (MV aside)?

Some context for anyone who’s trying to figure out what this is about: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1109459.page

This is silly. Salaries can't be increased independent of funding. The salaries of the unionized charter school are lower than the other charters. It isn't that the union isn't effective, they just can't raise salaries to compete with other charters (or DCPS) without getting equivalent funding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I don’t think so. Tell your charter board to increase teacher salaries if you don’t like current pay structures. Charter teachers should unionize if they want the collective bargaining power that the WTU has. Why on earth should they benefit from the DCPS union’s efforts if they choose not to unionize (MV aside)?

Some context for anyone who’s trying to figure out what this is about: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1109459.page

This is silly. Salaries can't be increased independent of funding. The salaries of the unionized charter school are lower than the other charters. It isn't that the union isn't effective, they just can't raise salaries to compete with other charters (or DCPS) without getting equivalent funding.

Charters can make changes to their payscale and salaries if they want to. They get to manage their own budgets. If they wanted to cut back on something else, they could afford more in salaries. Some schools have costly buildings. Some have more aides, some have less. Some have smaller class size, some larger. Then there's salaries for their leadership, and how much they pay to consultants and charter management organizations.

At our school (ITDS), there are way more aides than DCPS provides for its schools. In DCPS, for example, there would not typically be a full-time aide in an upper elementary classroom unless it were PTO-funded or required by a student's IEP. DCPS aims for class sizes of 22-24ish for elementary, but will go higher on a case by case basis-- I've personally seen elementary classes as high as 29 kids. ITDS caps class size at 24, occasionally 25. If ITDS school went up to 25 in all classrooms, it would have $100K in formula funding. It's the school's choice to make. But it seems perfectly right and fair for a school with more students to get more funding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:off-topic but in response to the above. certain popular middle school charters start in 5th not 6th grade. they chose this presumably so students would years ago try the school for 5th knowing they could always leave for 6th. its now a not so great set-up where a large cohort of students leave the neighborhood school before 5th and the other students feel left behind.

Too bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I don’t think so. Tell your charter board to increase teacher salaries if you don’t like current pay structures. Charter teachers should unionize if they want the collective bargaining power that the WTU has. Why on earth should they benefit from the DCPS union’s efforts if they choose not to unionize (MV aside)?

Some context for anyone who’s trying to figure out what this is about: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1109459.page

This is silly. Salaries can't be increased independent of funding. The salaries of the unionized charter school are lower than the other charters. It isn't that the union isn't effective, they just can't raise salaries to compete with other charters (or DCPS) without getting equivalent funding.

Charters can make changes to their payscale and salaries if they want to. They get to manage their own budgets. If they wanted to cut back on something else, they could afford more in salaries. Some schools have costly buildings. Some have more aides, some have less. Some have smaller class size, some larger. Then there's salaries for their leadership, and how much they pay to consultants and charter management organizations.

At our school (ITDS), there are way more aides than DCPS provides for its schools. In DCPS, for example, there would not typically be a full-time aide in an upper elementary classroom unless it were PTO-funded or required by a student's IEP. DCPS aims for class sizes of 22-24ish for elementary, but will go higher on a case by case basis-- I've personally seen elementary classes as high as 29 kids. ITDS caps class size at 24, occasionally 25. If ITDS school went up to 25 in all classrooms, it would have $100K in formula funding. It's the school's choice to make. But it seems perfectly right and fair for a school with more students to get more funding.

Wouldn't a school with more students automatically get more funding through the Uniform funding formula, precisely because they have more students? So you are right that it is fair that a school with more students gets more funding. That is not the same as equitable funding per student, however.

And the only way that DCPS can find money to pay their teachers more is because they are getting this money outside of the uniform funding formula. Charters aren't getting the same increase to also increase their salaries. You are right that they could change their pay structure, but that isn't the issue here. DCPS is getting this extra money outside of the UFF that charters aren't in order to increase salaries. They aren't having to make alterations to their budgets, as you suggest, to find the extra money. It is just being given to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I don’t think so. Tell your charter board to increase teacher salaries if you don’t like current pay structures. Charter teachers should unionize if they want the collective bargaining power that the WTU has. Why on earth should they benefit from the DCPS union’s efforts if they choose not to unionize (MV aside)?

Some context for anyone who’s trying to figure out what this is about: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1109459.page

This is silly. Salaries can't be increased independent of funding. The salaries of the unionized charter school are lower than the other charters. It isn't that the union isn't effective, they just can't raise salaries to compete with other charters (or DCPS) without getting equivalent funding.

Charters can make changes to their payscale and salaries if they want to. They get to manage their own budgets. If they wanted to cut back on something else, they could afford more in salaries. Some schools have costly buildings. Some have more aides, some have less. Some have smaller class size, some larger. Then there's salaries for their leadership, and how much they pay to consultants and charter management organizations.

At our school (ITDS), there are way more aides than DCPS provides for its schools. In DCPS, for example, there would not typically be a full-time aide in an upper elementary classroom unless it were PTO-funded or required by a student's IEP. DCPS aims for class sizes of 22-24ish for elementary, but will go higher on a case by case basis-- I've personally seen elementary classes as high as 29 kids. ITDS caps class size at 24, occasionally 25. If ITDS school went up to 25 in all classrooms, it would have $100K in formula funding. It's the school's choice to make. But it seems perfectly right and fair for a school with more students to get more funding.

Wouldn't a school with more students automatically get more funding through the Uniform funding formula, precisely because they have more students? So you are right that it is fair that a school with more students gets more funding. That is not the same as equitable funding per student, however.

And the only way that DCPS can find money to pay their teachers more is because they are getting this money outside of the uniform funding formula. Charters aren't getting the same increase to also increase their salaries. You are right that they could change their pay structure, but that isn't the issue here. DCPS is getting this extra money outside of the UFF that charters aren't in order to increase salaries. They aren't having to make alterations to their budgets, as you suggest, to find the extra money. It is just being given to them.

When a student leaves a charter after count day, does the money follow the student to the receiving school or does the charter keep it? When a student leaves a charter, does the charter have to fill that seat, perhaps from a waitlist? Is a charter required to take students at any time during the school year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I don’t think so. Tell your charter board to increase teacher salaries if you don’t like current pay structures. Charter teachers should unionize if they want the collective bargaining power that the WTU has. Why on earth should they benefit from the DCPS union’s efforts if they choose not to unionize (MV aside)?

Some context for anyone who’s trying to figure out what this is about: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1109459.page

This is silly. Salaries can't be increased independent of funding. The salaries of the unionized charter school are lower than the other charters. It isn't that the union isn't effective, they just can't raise salaries to compete with other charters (or DCPS) without getting equivalent funding.

Charters can make changes to their payscale and salaries if they want to. They get to manage their own budgets. If they wanted to cut back on something else, they could afford more in salaries. Some schools have costly buildings. Some have more aides, some have less. Some have smaller class size, some larger. Then there's salaries for their leadership, and how much they pay to consultants and charter management organizations.

At our school (ITDS), there are way more aides than DCPS provides for its schools. In DCPS, for example, there would not typically be a full-time aide in an upper elementary classroom unless it were PTO-funded or required by a student's IEP. DCPS aims for class sizes of 22-24ish for elementary, but will go higher on a case by case basis-- I've personally seen elementary classes as high as 29 kids. ITDS caps class size at 24, occasionally 25. If ITDS school went up to 25 in all classrooms, it would have $100K in formula funding. It's the school's choice to make. But it seems perfectly right and fair for a school with more students to get more funding.

Wouldn't a school with more students automatically get more funding through the Uniform funding formula, precisely because they have more students? So you are right that it is fair that a school with more students gets more funding. That is not the same as equitable funding per student, however.

And the only way that DCPS can find money to pay their teachers more is because they are getting this money outside of the uniform funding formula. Charters aren't getting the same increase to also increase their salaries. You are right that they could change their pay structure, but that isn't the issue here. DCPS is getting this extra money outside of the UFF that charters aren't in order to increase salaries. They aren't having to make alterations to their budgets, as you suggest, to find the extra money. It is just being given to them.

When a student leaves a charter after count day, does the money follow the student to the receiving school or does the charter keep it? When a student leaves a charter, does the charter have to fill that seat, perhaps from a waitlist? Is a charter required to take students at any time during the school year?

Right now, the charter keeps it. No they don't have to fill the seat. No, they don't have to take students at any time during the year. Some charters choose to, others will tell you it's "not our model". Basically it's too haaaaaard, oh so haaard, so disruptive, their supposedly excellent teachers just can't handle what most schools in this country routinely do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I don’t think so. Tell your charter board to increase teacher salaries if you don’t like current pay structures. Charter teachers should unionize if they want the collective bargaining power that the WTU has. Why on earth should they benefit from the DCPS union’s efforts if they choose not to unionize (MV aside)?

Some context for anyone who’s trying to figure out what this is about: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1109459.page

This is silly. Salaries can't be increased independent of funding. The salaries of the unionized charter school are lower than the other charters. It isn't that the union isn't effective, they just can't raise salaries to compete with other charters (or DCPS) without getting equivalent funding.

Charters can make changes to their payscale and salaries if they want to. They get to manage their own budgets. If they wanted to cut back on something else, they could afford more in salaries. Some schools have costly buildings. Some have more aides, some have less. Some have smaller class size, some larger. Then there's salaries for their leadership, and how much they pay to consultants and charter management organizations.

At our school (ITDS), there are way more aides than DCPS provides for its schools. In DCPS, for example, there would not typically be a full-time aide in an upper elementary classroom unless it were PTO-funded or required by a student's IEP. DCPS aims for class sizes of 22-24ish for elementary, but will go higher on a case by case basis-- I've personally seen elementary classes as high as 29 kids. ITDS caps class size at 24, occasionally 25. If ITDS school went up to 25 in all classrooms, it would have $100K in formula funding. It's the school's choice to make. But it seems perfectly right and fair for a school with more students to get more funding.

Wouldn't a school with more students automatically get more funding through the Uniform funding formula, precisely because they have more students? So you are right that it is fair that a school with more students gets more funding. That is not the same as equitable funding per student, however.

And the only way that DCPS can find money to pay their teachers more is because they are getting this money outside of the uniform funding formula. Charters aren't getting the same increase to also increase their salaries. You are right that they could change their pay structure, but that isn't the issue here. DCPS is getting this extra money outside of the UFF that charters aren't in order to increase salaries. They aren't having to make alterations to their budgets, as you suggest, to find the extra money. It is just being given to them.

The UPSFF is at the LEA level. So DCPS gets funding through that formula as one LEA. Then the DCPS budget process allocates that funding to schools. And there are a ton of rules for how DCPS schools get funding, taking into account all sorts of things.

If you just compare funding per capita, you'll get unhelpful results. The UPSFF is weighted by grade band and by special needs. You can only do an apples-to-apples comparison of schools if you make a detailed spreadsheet to compare those things.

It's unclear to me what law is violated by DCPS getting money outside the formula, could you provide a cite?

[Anonymous]

I'm fine with DCPS having more money per student as of Count Day, or just more money in general. DCPS has responsibilities that charter schools do not, and DCPS receives students all year long (some from charter schools and some from out of state). So DCPS needs a funding cushion for that growth. Comparing enrollment as of Count Day is not the full picture because enrollment changes all year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:off-topic but in response to the above. certain popular middle school charters start in 5th not 6th grade. they chose this presumably so students would years ago try the school for 5th knowing they could always leave for 6th. its now a not so great set-up where a large cohort of students leave the neighborhood school before 5th and the other students feel left behind.

Too bad.

TFB [fixed it for you]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is as it stands now in the city budget, charter schools will get approx $3500 less per student - which seems unfair to me (a taxpayer who pays for public - including charter - schools). Per student allocation from the city should be the same, whether DCPS or Charter.

I have no idea if that dollar amount is true, but no, the SCHOOLS aren’t getting less. Rather, DCPS TEACHERS are getting retro compensation per the WTU collective bargaining agreement. Charter teachers do not have a collective bargaining agreement, nor do charter schools have a requirement to spend additional funds on teacher compensation. So it’s really apples to oranges unless you want to argue that the WTU agreement should apply to non-unionized charter teachers?

Except that you are wrong. There are charter teachers that have a collective bargaining agreement. That agreement is negotiated from within the available per pupil. And so those unionized charter teachers get much, much less because their charter school gets less funding. If those unionized charter teachers negotiate for higher pay will the city accommodate it by funding their contract outside of the per pupil? Just as it is doing for DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I don’t think so. Tell your charter board to increase teacher salaries if you don’t like current pay structures. Charter teachers should unionize if they want the collective bargaining power that the WTU has. Why on earth should they benefit from the DCPS union’s efforts if they choose not to unionize (MV aside)?

Some context for anyone who’s trying to figure out what this is about: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1109459.page

This is silly. Salaries can't be increased independent of funding. The salaries of the unionized charter school are lower than the other charters. It isn't that the union isn't effective, they just can't raise salaries to compete with other charters (or DCPS) without getting equivalent funding.

Charters can make changes to their payscale and salaries if they want to. They get to manage their own budgets. If they wanted to cut back on something else, they could afford more in salaries. Some schools have costly buildings. Some have more aides, some have less. Some have smaller class size, some larger. Then there's salaries for their leadership, and how much they pay to consultants and charter management organizations.

At our school (ITDS), there are way more aides than DCPS provides for its schools. In DCPS, for example, there would not typically be a full-time aide in an upper elementary classroom unless it were PTO-funded or required by a student's IEP. DCPS aims for class sizes of 22-24ish for elementary, but will go higher on a case by case basis-- I've personally seen elementary classes as high as 29 kids. ITDS caps class size at 24, occasionally 25. If ITDS school went up to 25 in all classrooms, it would have $100K in formula funding. It's the school's choice to make. But it seems perfectly right and fair for a school with more students to get more funding.

You can't truly believe that schools can make whatever changes they want to their payscales regardless of the level of funding that they receive?? The ITDS instructional salaries budget is $5 million dollars. An additional 100k is a 2% raise for the instructional staff and that's assuming that none of the 100k from raising class sizes has to be used to accommodate the additional students -- you know, like for food services, supplies, materials, etc. The teachers at your school are getting shorted and so are the kids. But yes, a charter school can cut aides, paras, field trips, curriculum etc. and possibly have a little more. However, it won't even come close to the amount that is being provided to DCPS outside of the traditional funding mechanism.