5th Grade Departmentalization

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fifth grade is elementary school. That’s not how it’s done.

Many (most?) elementary schools do departmentalize for fifth grade.

In MCPS, yes. At our school, we are losing this in 4th grade next year, but keeping it in 5th with the justification that it will prepare the kids for MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what’s the schedule with 3 teachers? C

One teaches math, the other reading/writing, the other ss/sci/health. Not difficult.

Reading/writing is a really long daily block, math is a long, but slightly shorter block, and there’s barely any time spent on social studies and science in fifth grade. You’re really oversimplifying. Probably with 3 teachers, during the reading/writing block, depending on how many kids are struggling and how many are above grade level, they’d either have one teacher teach the kids who are struggling and the other two teacher those who are on or above grade level or they’d have one teach those who are struggling and those who are one grade level, while the other two teach those who are above grade level. Then during the math block, one or two teachers would teach grade level math while the others teach compacted math. Each teacher would probably teach social studies, science and health to their own home room.

This kind of departmentalization also doesn't work very well if you want to see kids regrouped by ability, and a lot of people seem to be advocating for that on other threads. Unless you assume everyone who needs higher math also needs higher reading and vice versa, or unless you enough teachers to have one higher math and one higher reading at the same time.

You need two teachers teaching the same subject at the same time to regroup by ability and not have a group that stays together most of the day getting the "higher" classes.

It's not that difficult at all actually. 90 minutes math. 90 minutes reading/writing. 90 minutes ss/sci/health. It actually gives students more time with science and ss as they usually get pushed to the side. No one in elementary should want students grouped by ability. Focus teachers teach ELC/compacted math but otherwise, tracking is not best practice.

You think schools have 90 minute for science/social studies? And that there are just extra “focus” teachers floating around ready to help with compacted and ELC? This is why non-teachers should not try to come up with educational policies.

When my kids were in fifth grade 4 years ago, in addition to reading, writing, math, science, social studies, and family life, students also had weekly specials: PE, art, music, chorus. Students who were in band or orchestra also had instruction once a week. Obviously, there will be lunch and recess every day. In order to pack it all in, they didn’t have math instruction on days they had chorus, so they had long blocks for math the other 4 days a week. Science and social studies instruction were alternated during the same block and only took place 1-2 a week. It was shocking how little science instruction there was, given that fifth graders take the MISA.

Anyone who acts like this is easy and you just make all the different blocks the same length of time doesn’t know how things actually work.

It is absolutely shocking how little instruction is spent on Science and Social Studies, and it is evident in the MISA. In my opinion the ELA and Math blocks are too long at the expense of science and social studies. Especially considering Science and Social Studies should both include math and ELA.

Curriculum 2.0 did away with science and socials studies. It has never come back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what’s the schedule with 3 teachers? C

One teaches math, the other reading/writing, the other ss/sci/health. Not difficult.

Reading/writing is a really long daily block, math is a long, but slightly shorter block, and there’s barely any time spent on social studies and science in fifth grade. You’re really oversimplifying. Probably with 3 teachers, during the reading/writing block, depending on how many kids are struggling and how many are above grade level, they’d either have one teacher teach the kids who are struggling and the other two teacher those who are on or above grade level or they’d have one teach those who are struggling and those who are one grade level, while the other two teach those who are above grade level. Then during the math block, one or two teachers would teach grade level math while the others teach compacted math. Each teacher would probably teach social studies, science and health to their own home room.

This kind of departmentalization also doesn't work very well if you want to see kids regrouped by ability, and a lot of people seem to be advocating for that on other threads. Unless you assume everyone who needs higher math also needs higher reading and vice versa, or unless you enough teachers to have one higher math and one higher reading at the same time.

You need two teachers teaching the same subject at the same time to regroup by ability and not have a group that stays together most of the day getting the "higher" classes.

It's not that difficult at all actually. 90 minutes math. 90 minutes reading/writing. 90 minutes ss/sci/health. It actually gives students more time with science and ss as they usually get pushed to the side. No one in elementary should want students grouped by ability. Focus teachers teach ELC/compacted math but otherwise, tracking is not best practice.

You think schools have 90 minute for science/social studies? And that there are just extra “focus” teachers floating around ready to help with compacted and ELC? This is why non-teachers should not try to come up with educational policies.

I don’t “think” this, this is literally how it’s set up at my elementary school. Focus teachers aren’t just floating around… and no one said that. They were assigned to teach those subjects. Maybe you should spend some time at a school before you open your mouth bc you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what’s the schedule with 3 teachers? C

One teaches math, the other reading/writing, the other ss/sci/health. Not difficult.

Reading/writing is a really long daily block, math is a long, but slightly shorter block, and there’s barely any time spent on social studies and science in fifth grade. You’re really oversimplifying. Probably with 3 teachers, during the reading/writing block, depending on how many kids are struggling and how many are above grade level, they’d either have one teacher teach the kids who are struggling and the other two teacher those who are on or above grade level or they’d have one teach those who are struggling and those who are one grade level, while the other two teach those who are above grade level. Then during the math block, one or two teachers would teach grade level math while the others teach compacted math. Each teacher would probably teach social studies, science and health to their own home room.

This kind of departmentalization also doesn't work very well if you want to see kids regrouped by ability, and a lot of people seem to be advocating for that on other threads. Unless you assume everyone who needs higher math also needs higher reading and vice versa, or unless you enough teachers to have one higher math and one higher reading at the same time.

You need two teachers teaching the same subject at the same time to regroup by ability and not have a group that stays together most of the day getting the "higher" classes.

It's not that difficult at all actually. 90 minutes math. 90 minutes reading/writing. 90 minutes ss/sci/health. It actually gives students more time with science and ss as they usually get pushed to the side. No one in elementary should want students grouped by ability. Focus teachers teach ELC/compacted math but otherwise, tracking is not best practice.

You think schools have 90 minute for science/social studies? And that there are just extra “focus” teachers floating around ready to help with compacted and ELC? This is why non-teachers should not try to come up with educational policies.

I don’t “think” this, this is literally how it’s set up at my elementary school. Focus teachers aren’t just floating around… and no one said that. They were assigned to teach those subjects. Maybe you should spend some time at a school before you open your mouth bc you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

I’m not the poster you were responding to, but I would love to see a breakdown of your daily schedule to see how you have 90 minutes for science/social studies. I’ve been teaching for almost 30 years and I’ve never had this amount of time dedicated towards science/social studies.

[Anonymous]

I’m a NP, but a teacher in an MCPS elementary school. At our school, there is about 40 minutes for science/ss daily and it is also the first subject to get cut for things like counseling lessons, half days, or grade wide meetings etc... It’s cut all the time!

We have a part-time focus teacher but she does pull-out interventions.

I just don’t see how your school is finding time for three 90-minute rotations. I, too, would like to see this schedule. In addition, I am curious about the resentment level of the teachers with one only in charge of science and social studies.

You make it sound easy, but it’s not. We would love to be departmentalized, but we can’t figure out a schedule.