Comparing elementary schools on things that matter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the things that matter to OP are: test scores, screen time, and outdoor time.

The only item that you are going to be able to find hard data on is test scores. The OSSE page is very helpful and breaks scores down by demographics, so you can see not just how students overall are doing, but also how students in your demographic group are doing, which might give you a better sense of how your child would do at the school. I know you didn't ask this, but I will throw this out there-- we moved from a school with overall ok test scores but scores that were poor relative to demographics, to a school with great overall test scores that were also great relative to demographics. Everyone at our first school told us that test scores don't mean anything. The education at my kids' new school is about twice as rigorous (in a good way), which I believe accounts for the test scores.

Screen time-- if you are at a school where all kids are assigned their own tablets, then expect more screen time than you are probably comfortable with. It will vary teacher-by-teacher but there will probably not be a policy imposing limits. If your school has the kids share computers, it will be harder to default to screens (but those schools might come with other issues).

Outdoor time-- There will be a general school policy, that probably won't vary too much by school, but again it will be very teacher-specific.

Good luck! I think these are all valid questions.

Thank you for that comment on test scores. We had a similar experience. I don’t find it worth my time to argue with the “test scores don’t matter” people in here, but there are definitely mistaken and full of cope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone posted a link to quantify behavioral incidents at the different schools? Because that is useful information and it conserve as a proxy from any of the other things that OP is wondering about.

I don't think that would be very helpful. You'd basically be quantifying a school's willingness to report the incidents, with no way to independently verify. What counts as a "serious incident" is kinda squishy. And the number of kids with serious behavior problems is pretty low, so the data set would be small and noisy.

It's also kinda the luck of the draw where behaviorally challenged kids enroll. My kids are at a HRCS and my DD has a pretty calm and well-behaved cohort, but the grade one year above consistently has concerning incidents. It's been that way for years, no matter which teachers the kids have thatt year. And when we attended our IB, there was one kid with a serious behavior problem, we left in part to get away from him-- but guess who got the very next waitlist offer and came with us?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the things that matter to OP are: test scores, screen time, and outdoor time.

The only item that you are going to be able to find hard data on is test scores. The OSSE page is very helpful and breaks scores down by demographics, so you can see not just how students overall are doing, but also how students in your demographic group are doing, which might give you a better sense of how your child would do at the school. I know you didn't ask this, but I will throw this out there-- we moved from a school with overall ok test scores but scores that were poor relative to demographics, to a school with great overall test scores that were also great relative to demographics. Everyone at our first school told us that test scores don't mean anything. The education at my kids' new school is about twice as rigorous (in a good way), which I believe accounts for the test scores.

Screen time-- if you are at a school where all kids are assigned their own tablets, then expect more screen time than you are probably comfortable with. It will vary teacher-by-teacher but there will probably not be a policy imposing limits. If your school has the kids share computers, it will be harder to default to screens (but those schools might come with other issues).

Outdoor time-- There will be a general school policy, that probably won't vary too much by school, but again it will be very teacher-specific.

Good luck! I think these are all valid questions.

Thank you for that comment on test scores. We had a similar experience. I don’t find it worth my time to argue with the “test scores don’t matter” people in here, but there are definitely mistaken and full of cope.

I would never argue that test scores don't matter, but I do believe that test scores should be looked at relative to demographics. If your school has mostly high-income kids and still has crap test scores, red flag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the things that matter to OP are: test scores, screen time, and outdoor time.

The only item that you are going to be able to find hard data on is test scores. The OSSE page is very helpful and breaks scores down by demographics, so you can see not just how students overall are doing, but also how students in your demographic group are doing, which might give you a better sense of how your child would do at the school. I know you didn't ask this, but I will throw this out there-- we moved from a school with overall ok test scores but scores that were poor relative to demographics, to a school with great overall test scores that were also great relative to demographics. Everyone at our first school told us that test scores don't mean anything. The education at my kids' new school is about twice as rigorous (in a good way), which I believe accounts for the test scores.

Screen time-- if you are at a school where all kids are assigned their own tablets, then expect more screen time than you are probably comfortable with. It will vary teacher-by-teacher but there will probably not be a policy imposing limits. If your school has the kids share computers, it will be harder to default to screens (but those schools might come with other issues).

Outdoor time-- There will be a general school policy, that probably won't vary too much by school, but again it will be very teacher-specific.

Good luck! I think these are all valid questions.

Thank you for that comment on test scores. We had a similar experience. I don’t find it worth my time to argue with the “test scores don’t matter” people in here, but there are definitely mistaken and full of cope.

I would never argue that test scores don't matter, but I do believe that test scores should be looked at relative to demographics. If your school has mostly high-income kids and still has crap test scores, red flag.

This exactly. Higher test scores aren’t everything. A school with low scores for the demographics is not rigorous, a school with high scores for the demographics (even if overall lower) differentiates well. A school with low scores and low demographics may do well, but not have a big enough cohort to show that in scores. Easiest solution is high scores and demographics, but not everyone can/wants to move to those neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the things that matter to OP are: test scores, screen time, and outdoor time.

The only item that you are going to be able to find hard data on is test scores. The OSSE page is very helpful and breaks scores down by demographics, so you can see not just how students overall are doing, but also how students in your demographic group are doing, which might give you a better sense of how your child would do at the school. I know you didn't ask this, but I will throw this out there-- we moved from a school with overall ok test scores but scores that were poor relative to demographics, to a school with great overall test scores that were also great relative to demographics. Everyone at our first school told us that test scores don't mean anything. The education at my kids' new school is about twice as rigorous (in a good way), which I believe accounts for the test scores.

Screen time-- if you are at a school where all kids are assigned their own tablets, then expect more screen time than you are probably comfortable with. It will vary teacher-by-teacher but there will probably not be a policy imposing limits. If your school has the kids share computers, it will be harder to default to screens (but those schools might come with other issues).

Outdoor time-- There will be a general school policy, that probably won't vary too much by school, but again it will be very teacher-specific.

Good luck! I think these are all valid questions.

Thank you for that comment on test scores. We had a similar experience. I don’t find it worth my time to argue with the “test scores don’t matter” people in here, but there are definitely mistaken and full of cope.

I would never argue that test scores don't matter, but I do believe that test scores should be looked at relative to demographics. If your school has mostly high-income kids and still has crap test scores, red flag.

This exactly. Higher test scores aren’t everything. A school with low scores for the demographics is not rigorous, a school with high scores for the demographics (even if overall lower) differentiates well. A school with low scores and low demographics may do well, but not have a big enough cohort to show that in scores. Easiest solution is high scores and demographics, but not everyone can/wants to move to those neighborhoods.

A bigger school has more meaningful data because they have more test-takers. Small schools' data tends to hop around a lot.

A bigger school might have a greater number of high-performing kids and therefore more ability to support programming for them, even if its test scores are lower overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the things that matter to OP are: test scores, screen time, and outdoor time.

The only item that you are going to be able to find hard data on is test scores. The OSSE page is very helpful and breaks scores down by demographics, so you can see not just how students overall are doing, but also how students in your demographic group are doing, which might give you a better sense of how your child would do at the school. I know you didn't ask this, but I will throw this out there-- we moved from a school with overall ok test scores but scores that were poor relative to demographics, to a school with great overall test scores that were also great relative to demographics. Everyone at our first school told us that test scores don't mean anything. The education at my kids' new school is about twice as rigorous (in a good way), which I believe accounts for the test scores.

Screen time-- if you are at a school where all kids are assigned their own tablets, then expect more screen time than you are probably comfortable with. It will vary teacher-by-teacher but there will probably not be a policy imposing limits. If your school has the kids share computers, it will be harder to default to screens (but those schools might come with other issues).

Outdoor time-- There will be a general school policy, that probably won't vary too much by school, but again it will be very teacher-specific.

Good luck! I think these are all valid questions.

Thank you for that comment on test scores. We had a similar experience. I don’t find it worth my time to argue with the “test scores don’t matter” people in here, but there are definitely mistaken and full of cope.

It's amazing that there are so many intelligent people who think test scores are an indicator of school excellence vs a basic demographic correlation.

[Anonymous]

Right. As our kids got older we realized we were asking the wrong questions. Instead of looking at a school's overall scores we should have been focusing on the scores for our demographic. That is how you will know what opportunities are available for your child. The average doesn't matter nearly as much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the things that matter to OP are: test scores, screen time, and outdoor time.

The only item that you are going to be able to find hard data on is test scores. The OSSE page is very helpful and breaks scores down by demographics, so you can see not just how students overall are doing, but also how students in your demographic group are doing, which might give you a better sense of how your child would do at the school. I know you didn't ask this, but I will throw this out there-- we moved from a school with overall ok test scores but scores that were poor relative to demographics, to a school with great overall test scores that were also great relative to demographics. Everyone at our first school told us that test scores don't mean anything. The education at my kids' new school is about twice as rigorous (in a good way), which I believe accounts for the test scores.

Screen time-- if you are at a school where all kids are assigned their own tablets, then expect more screen time than you are probably comfortable with. It will vary teacher-by-teacher but there will probably not be a policy imposing limits. If your school has the kids share computers, it will be harder to default to screens (but those schools might come with other issues).

Outdoor time-- There will be a general school policy, that probably won't vary too much by school, but again it will be very teacher-specific.

Good luck! I think these are all valid questions.

Thank you for that comment on test scores. We had a similar experience. I don’t find it worth my time to argue with the “test scores don’t matter” people in here, but there are definitely mistaken and full of cope.

I would never argue that test scores don't matter, but I do believe that test scores should be looked at relative to demographics. If your school has mostly high-income kids and still has crap test scores, red flag.

This exactly. Higher test scores aren’t everything. A school with low scores for the demographics is not rigorous, a school with high scores for the demographics (even if overall lower) differentiates well. A school with low scores and low demographics may do well, but not have a big enough cohort to show that in scores. Easiest solution is high scores and demographics, but not everyone can/wants to move to those neighborhoods.

A bigger school has more meaningful data because they have more test-takers. Small schools' data tends to hop around a lot.

A bigger school might have a greater number of high-performing kids and therefore more ability to support programming for them, even if its test scores are lower overall.

Hypothetically, yes. But there are plenty of schools in DC that just don’t differentiate out of policy or lack of a competent administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the things that matter to OP are: test scores, screen time, and outdoor time.

The only item that you are going to be able to find hard data on is test scores. The OSSE page is very helpful and breaks scores down by demographics, so you can see not just how students overall are doing, but also how students in your demographic group are doing, which might give you a better sense of how your child would do at the school. I know you didn't ask this, but I will throw this out there-- we moved from a school with overall ok test scores but scores that were poor relative to demographics, to a school with great overall test scores that were also great relative to demographics. Everyone at our first school told us that test scores don't mean anything. The education at my kids' new school is about twice as rigorous (in a good way), which I believe accounts for the test scores.

Screen time-- if you are at a school where all kids are assigned their own tablets, then expect more screen time than you are probably comfortable with. It will vary teacher-by-teacher but there will probably not be a policy imposing limits. If your school has the kids share computers, it will be harder to default to screens (but those schools might come with other issues).

Outdoor time-- There will be a general school policy, that probably won't vary too much by school, but again it will be very teacher-specific.

Good luck! I think these are all valid questions.

Thank you for that comment on test scores. We had a similar experience. I don’t find it worth my time to argue with the “test scores don’t matter” people in here, but there are definitely mistaken and full of cope.

It's amazing that there are so many intelligent people who think test scores are an indicator of school excellence vs a basic demographic correlation.

Demographic correlation that is then reflected in the rigor of the teaching. Students that can’t read at grade level do not receive the same teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Other questions: How does differentiation work (if at all)? In class, with pullouts, different classes? What if a kid is significantly above or below grade level, how does that impact their approach? What's their approach to teaching kids to read? How much homework and at what grades?

You sound like every parent dealing with lottery for first time. DCPSactually does PK really well. We ended up in our local title 1 (not in my top 6 choices) and ended up staying. Now I’m 4th grade. Shut out of lottery every single year. However, we have been so happy at the school! Tight knit, kind lids and awesome teachers. Bottom line there is only so much research you do. You also have no idea what kind of student you PKer will be.
As for differentiation, it’s BS in most schools. The achievement gap is big and only gets bigger by second grade, especially at a title 1 school. Our main reason for trying to lottery out is for a middle school feed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the things that matter to OP are: test scores, screen time, and outdoor time.

The only item that you are going to be able to find hard data on is test scores. The OSSE page is very helpful and breaks scores down by demographics, so you can see not just how students overall are doing, but also how students in your demographic group are doing, which might give you a better sense of how your child would do at the school. I know you didn't ask this, but I will throw this out there-- we moved from a school with overall ok test scores but scores that were poor relative to demographics, to a school with great overall test scores that were also great relative to demographics. Everyone at our first school told us that test scores don't mean anything. The education at my kids' new school is about twice as rigorous (in a good way), which I believe accounts for the test scores.

Screen time-- if you are at a school where all kids are assigned their own tablets, then expect more screen time than you are probably comfortable with. It will vary teacher-by-teacher but there will probably not be a policy imposing limits. If your school has the kids share computers, it will be harder to default to screens (but those schools might come with other issues).

Outdoor time-- There will be a general school policy, that probably won't vary too much by school, but again it will be very teacher-specific.

Good luck! I think these are all valid questions.

Thank you for that comment on test scores. We had a similar experience. I don’t find it worth my time to argue with the “test scores don’t matter” people in here, but there are definitely mistaken and full of cope.

It's amazing that there are so many intelligent people who think test scores are an indicator of school excellence vs a basic demographic correlation.

I can both believe that my kids' school is doing the best they can with a high-needs population and observe that if I want my kids to learn material that's appropriate to them, I'm going to have to teach them myself. (At which point their test scores will apparently be used as proof either that the school is doing a good job with kids like mine, or that test scores are just a 'basic demographic correlation'.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the things that matter to OP are: test scores, screen time, and outdoor time.

The only item that you are going to be able to find hard data on is test scores. The OSSE page is very helpful and breaks scores down by demographics, so you can see not just how students overall are doing, but also how students in your demographic group are doing, which might give you a better sense of how your child would do at the school. I know you didn't ask this, but I will throw this out there-- we moved from a school with overall ok test scores but scores that were poor relative to demographics, to a school with great overall test scores that were also great relative to demographics. Everyone at our first school told us that test scores don't mean anything. The education at my kids' new school is about twice as rigorous (in a good way), which I believe accounts for the test scores.

Screen time-- if you are at a school where all kids are assigned their own tablets, then expect more screen time than you are probably comfortable with. It will vary teacher-by-teacher but there will probably not be a policy imposing limits. If your school has the kids share computers, it will be harder to default to screens (but those schools might come with other issues).

Outdoor time-- There will be a general school policy, that probably won't vary too much by school, but again it will be very teacher-specific.

Good luck! I think these are all valid questions.

Thank you for that comment on test scores. We had a similar experience. I don’t find it worth my time to argue with the “test scores don’t matter” people in here, but there are definitely mistaken and full of cope.

It's amazing that there are so many intelligent people who think test scores are an indicator of school excellence vs a basic demographic correlation.

I can both believe that my kids' school is doing the best they can with a high-needs population and observe that if I want my kids to learn material that's appropriate to them, I'm going to have to teach them myself. (At which point their test scores will apparently be used as proof either that the school is doing a good job with kids like mine, or that test scores are just a 'basic demographic correlation'.)

So, you're just unwilling to have your child near students that have high needs?

[Anonymous]

I had my October birthday DD at a very low-scoring school for three years PK3-K. It was one of the lowest-scoring-- the ones that got the one-star rating with the extra funding. I know that preschool is usually pretty good everywhere, and indeed it was. I was very pleased with her progress-- in PK3, the teacher gave her the phonics curriculum 1:1 and had her reading by the end of the year. In PK4, they met with us in September and discussed options for having her read with the K class. Ultimately that didn't work out because of the class schedules not meshing well and because DD still really needed her nap, so she had 1:1 time daily with the reading specialist to work on her writing, which lagged behind her reading, and to really close in on certain things in reading (like how "ph" can make the "f" sound). In K, she walked down the hall to 2nd grade for reading time.

I will say, however, that while she was waaaay ahead of the other kids in PK3, the gap between her and the other bright kids in the class was beginning to close. It really is common for kids who read a little later to end up just as well as the super-duper-freaky-PK3 readers. Others, of course, fell more and more behind grade level.

Now, retention of high-performing kids wasn't good, and we left too, for that and other reasons. But it was definitely the case that the school was willing and able to differentiate despite having awful test scores overall, and I was always 100% satisfied with the attention DD got, and the process by which we and the school agreed on an approach. Because early elementary upwards differentiation isn't that complicated! You work with them 1:1 or in a small group, or you send them to another classroom if logistics are suitable. It simply isn't that hard to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the things that matter to OP are: test scores, screen time, and outdoor time.

The only item that you are going to be able to find hard data on is test scores. The OSSE page is very helpful and breaks scores down by demographics, so you can see not just how students overall are doing, but also how students in your demographic group are doing, which might give you a better sense of how your child would do at the school. I know you didn't ask this, but I will throw this out there-- we moved from a school with overall ok test scores but scores that were poor relative to demographics, to a school with great overall test scores that were also great relative to demographics. Everyone at our first school told us that test scores don't mean anything. The education at my kids' new school is about twice as rigorous (in a good way), which I believe accounts for the test scores.

Screen time-- if you are at a school where all kids are assigned their own tablets, then expect more screen time than you are probably comfortable with. It will vary teacher-by-teacher but there will probably not be a policy imposing limits. If your school has the kids share computers, it will be harder to default to screens (but those schools might come with other issues).

Outdoor time-- There will be a general school policy, that probably won't vary too much by school, but again it will be very teacher-specific.

Good luck! I think these are all valid questions.

Thank you for that comment on test scores. We had a similar experience. I don’t find it worth my time to argue with the “test scores don’t matter” people in here, but there are definitely mistaken and full of cope.

It's amazing that there are so many intelligent people who think test scores are an indicator of school excellence vs a basic demographic correlation.

I can both believe that my kids' school is doing the best they can with a high-needs population and observe that if I want my kids to learn material that's appropriate to them, I'm going to have to teach them myself. (At which point their test scores will apparently be used as proof either that the school is doing a good job with kids like mine, or that test scores are just a 'basic demographic correlation'.)

So, you're just unwilling to have your child near students that have high needs?

Are you high needs? You clearly don't understand PP's post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the things that matter to OP are: test scores, screen time, and outdoor time.

The only item that you are going to be able to find hard data on is test scores. The OSSE page is very helpful and breaks scores down by demographics, so you can see not just how students overall are doing, but also how students in your demographic group are doing, which might give you a better sense of how your child would do at the school. I know you didn't ask this, but I will throw this out there-- we moved from a school with overall ok test scores but scores that were poor relative to demographics, to a school with great overall test scores that were also great relative to demographics. Everyone at our first school told us that test scores don't mean anything. The education at my kids' new school is about twice as rigorous (in a good way), which I believe accounts for the test scores.

Screen time-- if you are at a school where all kids are assigned their own tablets, then expect more screen time than you are probably comfortable with. It will vary teacher-by-teacher but there will probably not be a policy imposing limits. If your school has the kids share computers, it will be harder to default to screens (but those schools might come with other issues).

Outdoor time-- There will be a general school policy, that probably won't vary too much by school, but again it will be very teacher-specific.

Good luck! I think these are all valid questions.

Thank you for that comment on test scores. We had a similar experience. I don’t find it worth my time to argue with the “test scores don’t matter” people in here, but there are definitely mistaken and full of cope.

It's amazing that there are so many intelligent people who think test scores are an indicator of school excellence vs a basic demographic correlation.

I can both believe that my kids' school is doing the best they can with a high-needs population and observe that if I want my kids to learn material that's appropriate to them, I'm going to have to teach them myself. (At which point their test scores will apparently be used as proof either that the school is doing a good job with kids like mine, or that test scores are just a 'basic demographic correlation'.)

So, you're just unwilling to have your child near students that have high needs?

Clearly not!